Politics & Stuff

[CHOULO19 24,332]

9 hours ago, Peace. said:

Then, is Trump trying to start the war on islam ? It will be a very, very difficult thing to accomplish because we are already at war with islam. Rather, islam is at war with western societies

Genuine question and I'm not trying to be clever or condescending:

Do you honestly see no irony in (rightly, imo) criticizing people who see Saudi Arabia as a monolith and then saying in the very next paragraph that Islam is at war with the west as if Islam is a single rigid thing with just one interpretation?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

9 hours ago, Spike said:

No, but I do believe that there are crazy lefty people out there that will use their victim-hood card to propagate their views. I just cannot take anything at face value, especially when we live in a world that has devalued the word 'rape' to the point it no longer resembles what it was a decade ago. I just don't know what constitutes as 'hate crime' anymore. 

I work with several people from minority groups and they haven't experienced any of this, nor I have I witnessed it. Nor has anyone in my wife's immediate family (and the time it did was twenty years ago). I don't know where this is all happening but it isn't around me. I encounter fucking assholes at my work all the time but I've never experienced or been told of racism, sexism, and religious bias. I cannot and I won't speak for everyone in America but to me it really does seem like it is being blown out of proportion. The way it is portrayed in the media, you'd think my wife would be getting her head kicked in by Neo-Nazis once a day. I'm not saying it doesn't happen nor am I saying it hasn't increased but it does seem to not be as widespread as you'd imagine. America really isn't as racist as people portray it.

Steve Bannon isn't a white supremacist. I'm sick of defending the guy, I don't even like him, I just know it's completely untrue. If you want to insult him, just call him a moral-less lizard that will manipulate a media empire to extract money out of a niche audience. He may be a greedy, money and power hungry asshole, but a white supremacist he is not. I just don't see a true white supremacist associating with a Jewish company.

I'm trying my best man, but it's really hard to debate seriously the notion that the Southern Poverty Law center and Breitbart news are the same. 

One has spent more than 40 years defending and protecting the civil rights of marginalized groups people, the other lies all the time and unapologeticly spouts racist and islamophobic nonsense. That's not say that everything that the SPLC says should be accepted uncritically, but to compare them to a fearmongering propaganda machine is illogical to say the least.

Hate crime does have a very simple and unanimously agreed on definition: It's a criminal act against persons or property "motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, ethnicity, gender, or gender identity" (to quote the exact definition by the FBI). Again these tactics of muddying the water around a discussion to create an illusion of uncertainty is created by people who know that the data is true but that it is their interest for people to doubt. Exxon knew how climate change will impact the word since the 70s and still poured millions into climate denial campaigns. 

You think the media is over-reporting on neonazi hate crimes? Well there was a terrorist attack by a right wing extremist that killed 6 muslims in a mosque and the fact that Fox purposely lied about it made more headlines than the actual attack. If it were a Muslim extremist that had shot up 6 christians in a church you'd have rolling coverage about it for days and half of US people on facebook would have the flag of Canada as their profile picture.

I mean you don't need a conspiracy theory to explain the increase in reported hate crimes when you have more and more people publicly inciting violence against minority groups. Don't you think it's possible that the vast majority of people reporting hate crimes are not making it up and that the typically right wing media has not suddenly turned into pro-muslim/Jewish/LGBT lefty propaganda machines but instead that the US is racist but you are just refusing to see it that way? 

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

11 hours ago, Spike said:

The rhetoric changes when you it's called 'extremist Islam' or 'fundamentalist Islam'. Take this for a thought; America is a Christian country, it can easily disassociate 'radical Christians' and 'normal Christians'. America has that advantage with Christianity because the society on a whole understands the religion, understands it's role in society and know when Christianity oversteps it's boundaries. While America has the complete opposite with Islam. Islam has had nothing but a troubled history with America, from the Nation of Islam, modern extremism and Sharia nations being the antithesis to America. It's almost incomparable. 

You know Dylan Roof is an outlier, you know most Christians don't want to ethnic cleanse and throw homosexuals from roofs.

The nation of Islam turned plenty of black criminals, failed by traditional christianity, into small business owners and great members of their community.  If you go to the fish restaurants, and markets in West End you have patronized Nation of Islam improved areas. I'd hardly consider their full history in America troubled. Their school in Atlanta also demands excellence and produces a very high level of black grads I have noticed at Tech downtown. I feel they have, in full, represented America quite well in behavior.

[Fernando 6,585]

15 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

No, I'm talking about the record number of threats and attacks on Jewish centers. Those are definitely YOUR guys.

 

Yea but it's your guys that are vandalizing when protesting and becoming violent when anyone has a different view then theirs....

Check out this article:

THE TRUE FACE OF LIBERALISM

The aftermath of the US elections reveals the duplicitous nature of Liberalism, exposing it for the fascist ideology that it has become.

Uber CEO’s bland response to the President’s three months immigration ban has put him in the crosshairs of liberal zealots, who regard themselves as “progressive.” The same thing happened to Silicon Valley’s poster child, billionaire entrepreneur Elon Musk, for not criticizing the ban more resolutely. These bullied dignitaries did not agree with Trump. Their only “sin” was that they did not chastise him with a torrent of slurs and profanities, as is commonplace these days among the “enlightened left.”

Before the elections, the press was concerned with the question, “What happens if Donald Trump loses?” Los Angeles Times reporter Doyle McManus, like many other liberal journalists, did not even consider the possibility that Trump might win, and concluded that after Trump’s loss, “it’s hard to imagine that Trump will simply fade away.”

But Donald Trump won, and his surprise victory exposed the true face of progressive liberalism in America. There are ample examples of the undemocratic nature of today’s American liberalism, such as their latest attempt at stymying the formation of the country’s government. Yet, perhaps the most authentic testimony I have seen came from a student of mine who wrote me about the situation in the Northeast, on condition of anonymity for fear of retribution from “liberals” and “progressives.” Below is just some of what my student wrote.

An Entire Generation Was Educated in Fantasy [student’s own title]

We grew up in this liberal bubble, a fantasy land. Our English classes required we read liberal books that championed the plight of immigrant minorities while condemning the westerner as the perpetual antagonist.

I like to think I have a decent moral compass. I take no pleasure in disagreeing with the trend. A person is terrified to say he is not liberal. Universities and schools raised us to breathe the notion that non-liberals are racist, backwards, white, old, men, and bigots.

Right now, what I see in the liberal-left is the new fascist ideology. They are the least embracing group in this country. Somehow, we have arrived where our society is an eggshell of political correctness. Everything is racist. Jerry Seinfeld made a joke about his friend whose last name is black. He said ‘Black's life matters.’ It was funny, but Seinfeld was almost crucified for racism. This is a sickness.

I am a progressive. I define progressivism as openness to all opinions, challenging everything. I also see myself as a champion of the oppressed. The oppressed right now are the Trump voters—the people who are not represented by Hollywood, the media, or tech and financial institutions where H-1B visa immigrants have all the good paying jobs.

I'm very alarmed at my generation's insensitivity to those with a different opinion than theirs. Trump is obviously not always right. But the outright temper-tantrum the left and my generation are having right now is a turn-off. They are entitled and SAD!

From Entitlement to Fascism

In the late 1940s, Baal HaSulam, my teacher’s father and the author of the Sulam (Ladder) commentary on The Zohar, wrote about the inherent problems of democracy in his compilation, The Writings of the Last Generation. According to Baal HaSulam, “We should not learn from the modern democracies, as they use various tactics to deceive the constituency. When [voters] grow wiser and understand their [leaders’] cunningness, the majority will certainly elect a management according to their spirit. And their [leaders’] main tactic is that they first create a good reputation for people and promote them either as wise or as righteous, and then the masses believe and elect them. But a lie does not persist forever.”

Moreover, later in the book, Baal HaSulam writes, “Reality proves that the step following the ruin of a democratic government is that of Nazis or Fascists. …Whenever the democratic government is ruined, a fascist, Nazi regime will inherit it.” Indeed, the exposure of the fanaticism of American liberalism proves that Baal HaSulam’s analysis was dead on. The “liberals” are showing their true, fascist faces. Ironically, it was acclaimed liberal progressive author and journalist, Nicholas Kristof, who best described the liberal dichotomy in a column he wrote for The New York Times titled, “A Confession of Liberal Intolerance.” According to Kristof, “We progressives could take a brief break from attacking the other side and more broadly incorporate values that we supposedly cherish—like diversity—in our own dominions.” Today, without proper measures to mend America’s perilous trajectory, the fallouts for the American society and for the world at large could be horrendous.

Establishing Sustainable Pluralism

A government whose leaders are in office for a fixed and relatively short term requires certain preconditions in order to succeed. While term limits guarantee that no leader becomes a monarch, they also compel candidates to vie for campaign funds and seek the benefit of their big donors every four years. This inevitably makes lawmakers and leaders hostages in the hands of a powerful few who exact their fees after the election, in complete disregard of the public interest. The inevitable outcome of this skewed system is a parade of puppet presidents who dance to the dictates of their donors, as we have seen for the past several decades. The wealthy elite are the real rulers of the United States; the “government”—a reality TV show.

As Baal HaSulam said in the above quote, today’s heads of state cannot be elected unless they are advertised like a commodity until the public “buys” the stories sold about them. In such a state, the president is not elected based on leadership skills, but based on acting skills and amicability. Are these the right criteria for choosing a nation’s leader?

To elect good leaders, people must determine what they want to see in a leader. If the constituency has the interest of the entire nation at heart, they will elect leaders based on the interest of the entirety of the country. In the case of America, for people to have such a broad view they must care for America, and especially for the American people, all American people.

Lessons from the Past

In today’s era of extreme self-absorption, the only way to restore stability to the American society is to embrace plurality rather than reject it. If the liver and heart fought over blood because they both need it for survival, we would die. But their complementary functionality guarantees that we have a toxin free flow of blood to the entire body.

Likewise, every person in humanity is important because health and strength are achieved when we unite above our differences, and not when we exhaust ourselves trying to be the last one standing. The constant battle we are fighting with each other is exactly how cancer behaves toward the rest of the body, and we know how this ends for the cancer and for us.

When the ancient Israelites connected above their differences, they managed to build a nation out of millions of separate individuals. Once they pledged to unite “as one man with one heart,” they were tasked with passing the method for connection to the rest of the world. The Torah defined this task as being “a light unto nations” because today disunity is “darkening” people’s lives. When depression, violence, and alienation are engulfing all of humanity, unity is the only possible light at the end of the tunnel, however dim or faint.

In Olat Raiah, the great Rav Kook wrote, “Unity that strives to benefit each individual is unsustainable. Even when it seems to grow, it will end in a flame of hatred and war among brothers, since each one is pulling in his own direction. However, unity that derives from recognizing the value of love of others will last and strengthen over time.”

Indeed, Israel’s method for achieving unity can succeed precisely in a state of social disintegration and alienation because it is designed for such a state. It does not dread frictions; it embraces them as tools for achieving greater unity and social cohesion.

My students all over the world carry out this method, which they titled, “Integral Education,” and prove repeatedly that people of different backgrounds can unite if they are willing to rise above their differences. They need not suppress their views like today’s intimidated supporters of the President.

I think that America’s strength and stability are too important to the world for this country to behave recklessly. I think it must reinstate the value of embracing all views. Only when America does this can it begin to cautiously open its gates to immigrants. However, even then it must be done on condition that immigrants also embrace the values of pluralism and unity as the basis of democracy.

In the coming years, the global challenges will increase and intensify. The basis for successful coping with these challenges is unity. If America establishes this, it will succeed. If not, it will end up like Europe.
 

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-true-face-of-liberalism-480228

 

P.S. This comment to this article said it all: 

"In short summary: Those that scream tolerance and diversity are the least tolerant of them all."

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

While I am not particularly supportive of stopping Free Speech, it does seem important not to let antisocial behavior become normal. It emboldens people who would, in normal circumstances, be kept quiet.

 

Yesterday a Korean Grandmother was attacked by a racist in Broad daylight. Not too shocking since Racism against Asians has always been commonplace in America. The big shock was this was in Koreatown...a place where a Korean grandmother should be safe from such incidents.

 

http://nextshark.com/korean-grandma-assaulted-in-los-angeles-white-power-february-1/

 

It trickles down. On the global scale Trump antagonizes China. Domestically Steve Bannon feels there are too many Asian Ceos in Silicon Valley, Locally a poor(assuming) women takes out her frustrations on a Korean Ganny walking around in KOREATOWN. If she can be attacked, anybody can honestly.

[Spike 12,049]

1 hour ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

The nation of Islam turned plenty of black criminals, failed by traditional christianity, into small business owners and great members of their community.  If you go to the fish restaurants, and markets in West End you have patronized Nation of Islam improved areas. I'd hardly consider their full history in America troubled. Their school in Atlanta also demands excellence and produces a very high level of black grads I have noticed at Tech downtown. I feel they have, in full, represented America quite well in behavior.

They are also anti-Semites, anti-white, black separatists that put a couple of dozen bullets in Malcolm X. Even the Southern Poverty Law centre I disparaged earlier lists them as a hate group.

[Spike 12,049]

5 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

I'm trying my best man, but it's really hard to debate seriously the notion that the Southern Poverty Law center and Breitbart news are the same. 

One has spent more than 40 years defending and protecting the civil rights of marginalized groups people, the other lies all the time and unapologeticly spouts racist and islamophobic nonsense. That's not say that everything that the SPLC says should be accepted uncritically, but to compare them to a fearmongering propaganda machine is illogical to say the least.

Hate crime does have a very simple and unanimously agreed on definition: It's a criminal act against persons or property "motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, ethnicity, gender, or gender identity" (to quote the exact definition by the FBI). Again these tactics of muddying the water around a discussion to create an illusion of uncertainty is created by people who know that the data is true but that it is their interest for people to doubt. Exxon knew how climate change will impact the word since the 70s and still poured millions into climate denial campaigns. 

You think the media is over-reporting on neonazi hate crimes? Well there was a terrorist attack by a right wing extremist that killed 6 muslims in a mosque and the fact that Fox purposely lied about it made more headlines than the actual attack. If it were a Muslim extremist that had shot up 6 christians in a church you'd have rolling coverage about it for days and half of US people on facebook would have the flag of Canada as their profile picture.

I mean you don't need a conspiracy theory to explain the increase in reported hate crimes when you have more and more people publicly inciting violence against minority groups. Don't you think it's possible that the vast majority of people reporting hate crimes are not making it up and that the typically right wing media has not suddenly turned into pro-muslim/Jewish/LGBT lefty propaganda machines but instead that the US is racist but you are just refusing to see it that way? 

Yeah you are right, it was a little over the top for a comparison. 

It isn't a competition between 'Neo-Nazi' attacks and 'Islamic Extremism'. The two can exist in a vacuum and it's not entirely impossible a huge increase of coverage for 'Neo-Nazis' while still being dwarfed by 'Islamic Extremism'. I'd actually like to see statistics on 'hate crime reports' and 'new media covering hate crime'. I think it'd be a very interesting set of data to look at, it could be the complete opposite of what I think, maybe 'hate crime reports' are spiking while 'media coverage' is dipping. 

But I'm not saying the aren't majority aren't sincere hate attacks. I'm just not taking the information at face value and I'm looking at possible other phenomena that could be an influence, because it does happen and the world is a odd place with thousands of different factors coming into play. I'm not denying there is an increase in hate crime, I just want to know why. Is it Trump? More than likely yes, but I want to know if there are any other factors that are coming into play.

I may fall into using righty tactics without realising but I feel you do the same with lefty tactics. You seem to put all faith in the victims without question. I'm just not one to believe a crime was committed on the basis that a person makes a claim of victim-hood. We can't really observe all the stats right now, but I'd love to see 'hate crime reports' v 'hate crime convictions' to see if there is any discrepancy. That also isn't foolproof because people are often wrongly convicted or let go free without punishment. The problem with stats they aren't undeniable facts, they create an accurate picture but there is always room for error.

I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories at all but I also don't deny that there are very much a possibility. Isn't it a conspiracy by Exxon to fund climate denial campaigns? Why couldn't a leftist organisation do the same towards the Trump administration by false reporting hate crimes? People are quite immoral and will use and tactics to get a foot up, I doubt it is true but I don't deny the possibility as I'm just not the all knowing person I want to be. Even bloody universities are guilty of pushing rape trials, the more rapes that are tried and convicted on campus the more federal funding universities get (well not in that sense, they just don't get funding cut). They are insentivised to have bloody rape cases tried and convicted!

The US really isn't that racist. It really isn't. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/?utm_term=.4d370a5fe326

Just from what I've observed and from that data, I can say that. Maybe in other states, in other cities it is far worse (maybe the just polled liberal Atlanta, Chicago, NY and LA). The most racist thing I've experience is a black dude saying to me 'black people can't be racist'.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

26 minutes ago, Spike said:

They are also anti-Semites, anti-white, black separatists that put a couple of dozen bullets in Malcolm X. Even the Southern Poverty Law centre I disparaged earlier lists them as a hate group.

I don't think they were definitively linked with the Assassination of Malcolm. He was a hated guy by pretty much everybody who was kicked out of their organization after he went on TV and pretty much spit in the face of a nation mourning the assassination of their president. I think any number of groups could have realistically been the ones to put some bullets in him. I don know that before he was taken in by the group he was a common street criminal, taking advantage of people, and serving time in Jail before he was saved from himself.

 

They believe in some crazy things, but I think the Anti white stuff seems to be outsider Malcolm/Louis teachings. Their original leader, Elijah Muhammed, was on record for respecting all races. He even described the original prophet of Islam, Muhammed, as a white Arab, and the original founder of the Nation of Islam, Fard Muhammed, was a White guy named Wallace ford from Portland

 

They are Anti-Semites, but that in itself is as American as Apple pie. You'd be hard pressed to find a group in America, even now, which doesnt have a medium to strong undercurrent of Anti-Semitism in their ranks.

 

[Spike 12,049]

Another attempted Islamic attack on the West today. A psychopath wielding a knife screamed 'Allahu Akbar' at the Louvre.

http://news.sky.com/story/louvre-terrorist-armed-with-machete-shot-at-paris-museum-10754100

Islamic Extremists really do perpetrate a disproportionate amount of violence in the west. 

[kmk108 1,186]

19 minutes ago, Spike said:

Another attempted Islamic attack on the West today. A psychopath wielding a knife screamed 'Allahu Akbar' at the Louvre.

http://news.sky.com/story/louvre-terrorist-armed-with-machete-shot-at-paris-museum-10754100

Islamic Extremists really do perpetrate a disproportionate amount of violence in the west. 

Disproportionate to what?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

3 hours ago, Fernando said:

Yea but it's your guys that are vandalizing when protesting and becoming violent when anyone has a different view then theirs....

Check out this article:

Yes, because vandalism and hate crimes against a group of people for whom they are are the exact same thing....

But forget that for a second, the two are not related and can be discussed separately. So why are you trying to change the subject from the record threats against Jewish centers when it was YOU who posted it in the first place? 

What do you make of it? Do you have an opinion on what we should do to prevent the extreme right from targeting Jewish people for their beliefs? Or was the intention of posting it just to hype up fear without getting into reasons and how it can be prevented?

 

EDIT: Also, I know that English might not be your first language, but are you really this unable to form your own ideas regarding politics? I genuinely don't remember you ever making a coherent point without resorting either to some crazy 'prophecy' video or an article from some fringe website.

[Spike 12,049]

20 minutes ago, kmk108 said:

Disproportionate to what?

Disproportionate to their population. In America it's no surprise that white Christians commit a lot of crime because they are the largest population. Just like a person is more likely to die by falling out of bed. Nearly everyone sleeps in a bed and there are definitely more than 3.3 million beds in a America.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/06/a-new-estimate-of-the-u-s-muslim-population/

3.3 million Muslims makes them about 1% of the population.

According to time 48 have been killed by white extremists since 9/11, whereas 26 have been killed by radical Islamists. 

White people make up around 62% of the population. So if the complete total of terrorist attacks is 74 then 62% of the population has committed 64.86% of terrorist acts. Whereas Islamic terrorism has accounted for 32.43% 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/

http://time.com/3934980/right-wing-extremists-white-terrorism-islamist-jihadi-dangerous/

Am I scared that I'll die in an attack? No, definitely not. They don't happen often enough, and I'm more likely to get hit by a stray bullet from a drive-by. Am I concerned about the numbers? Yes I am.

[Spike 12,049]

On top of that ^ Hinidis represent about same demographics as Muslims

https://www.hafsite.org/hinduism-101/hindu-demographics

[CHOULO19 24,332]

All fair points, @Spike. Of course reality always resists simplicity but that should not mean that no one can ever be responsible for anything.

 

2 hours ago, Spike said:

I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories at all but I also don't deny that there are very much a possibility. Isn't it a conspiracy by Exxon to fund climate denial campaigns? Why couldn't a leftist organisation do the same towards the Trump administration by false reporting hate crimes? People are quite immoral and will use and tactics to get a foot up, I doubt it is true but I don't deny the possibility as I'm just not the all knowing person I want to be. Even bloody universities are guilty of pushing rape trials, the more rapes that are tried and convicted on campus the more federal funding universities get (well not in that sense, they just don't get funding cut). They are insentivised to have bloody rape cases tried and convicted!

I feel this is one of the main differences in views between us and that is comparing the two sides of the spectrum as if they are equal. I disagree because I think intent matters. The objective of Exxon is to maximize profits for its owners; the objective of leftist reporting hate crimes against minorities is to preserve rights. In the case of universities and rapes that is a pretty bad system that creates all the wrong incentives. 

[CHOULO19 24,332]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

Disproportionate to their population. In America it's no surprise that white Christians commit a lot of crime because they are the largest population. Just like a person is more likely to die by falling out of bed. Nearly everyone sleeps in a bed and there are definitely more than 3.3 million beds in a America.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/06/a-new-estimate-of-the-u-s-muslim-population/

3.3 million Muslims makes them about 1% of the population.

According to time 48 have been killed by white extremists since 9/11, whereas 26 have been killed by radical Islamists. 

White people make up around 62% of the population. So if the complete total of terrorist attacks is 74 then 62% of the population has committed 64.86% of terrorist acts. Whereas Islamic terrorism has accounted for 32.43% 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/

http://time.com/3934980/right-wing-extremists-white-terrorism-islamist-jihadi-dangerous/

Am I scared that I'll die in an attack? No, definitely not. They don't happen often enough, and I'm more likely to get hit by a stray bullet from a drive-by. Am I concerned about the numbers? Yes I am.

We were just talking about stats not necessarily giving the whole picture, and it's true here as well. Because I was reading just yesterday that if you include homicides as well, then only 0.3% of those killed are by Muslims even though Muslims are 1% of the population. I'll try to find the source for you, I think it was Pew or something...

[kmk108 1,186]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

Disproportionate to their population. In America it's no surprise that white Christians commit a lot of crime because they are the largest population. Just like a person is more likely to die by falling out of bed. Nearly everyone sleeps in a bed and there are definitely more than 3.3 million beds in a America.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/06/a-new-estimate-of-the-u-s-muslim-population/

3.3 million Muslims makes them about 1% of the population.

According to time 48 have been killed by white extremists since 9/11, whereas 26 have been killed by radical Islamists. 

White people make up around 62% of the population. So if the complete total of terrorist attacks is 74 then 62% of the population has committed 64.86% of terrorist acts. Whereas Islamic terrorism has accounted for 32.43% 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/

http://time.com/3934980/right-wing-extremists-white-terrorism-islamist-jihadi-dangerous/

Am I scared that I'll die in an attack? No, definitely not. They don't happen often enough, and I'm more likely to get hit by a stray bullet from a drive-by. Am I concerned about the numbers? Yes I am.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Spike 12,049]

9 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

We were just talking about stats not necessarily giving the whole picture, and it's true here as well. Because I was reading just yesterday that if you include homicides as well, then only 0.3% of those killed are by Muslims even though Muslims are 1% of the population. I'll try to find the source for you, I think it was Pew or something...

You're exactly right. Even the pollsters can obfuscate the stats. 'Well that wasn't a terrorist act, but this one is'.. What do they count the Tsarnaev Brothers? As both? Because they were definitely Caucasoid Muslims. Is Time only counting crimes perpetrated by American citizens?

If you read the Time article and then the source the give (https://www.newamerica.org/in-depth/terrorism-in-america/what-threat-united-states-today/#americas-layered-defenses), there is clearly a discrepancy. Time speaks of 'white right wing extremists' v 'jihadists' but their source is 'left wing v right wing v jihadist'. Then if you read further Time states that Jihadists have killed 26 people but their source claims 94. Tsk, tsk, just a little detective work (a click of a bloody mouse!) and their story falls apart.

[Fernando 6,585]

2 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

Yes, because vandalism and hate crimes against a group of people for whom they are are the exact same thing....

But forget that for a second, the two are not related and can be discussed separately. So why are you trying to change the subject from the record threats against Jewish centers when it was YOU who posted it in the first place? 

What do you make of it? Do you have an opinion on what we should do to prevent the extreme right from targeting Jewish people for their beliefs? Or was the intention of posting it just to hype up fear without getting into reasons and how it can be prevented?

 

EDIT: Also, I know that English might not be your first language, but are you really this unable to form your own ideas regarding politics? I genuinely don't remember you ever making a coherent point without resorting either to some crazy 'prophecy' video or an article from some fringe website.

The extreme right from targeting Jewish people is not a new thing. It's a recurring thing that has been happening for ages. 

How we can prevent it? Well if rule the world I would move all the Jews to Israel, and kick out the Palestinian and give them a land in America like we did with Native American. 

Because no matter where the Jews are they are always targeted. America, Europe, etc etc

But that's not a nonfictional solution, so I would say that more then likely not much will be done. If anything the government will recommend more surveillance. 

These groups will be targeted, kinda like what Trump said for certain Mosque and such where he wanted to keep surveillance. 

I think that is what more then likely will happen in this scenario. 

[Fulham Broadway 17,335]

11 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

rFree speech and giving someone a platform are complete different things. Everyone has a right for free speech, within it's known limits. But no one has a right to get a platform to spread their ideas. 

When you legitimize fascists by allowing them to fearmonger and play on insecurities, then you're conceding that the human rights and even personhood of entire groups of people is up for debate. Call me a radical, but I don't think whether or not Jews ought to be considered people should be up for debate!

That's your opinion, but  saying 'everyone has a right to free speech, but...'' is the thin end of the wedge and is fascism by the back door. Of course everything should be up for debate, no exceptions. Hide it underground and it's asking for trouble.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

You're exactly right. Even the pollsters can obfuscate the stats. 'Well that wasn't a terrorist act, but this one is'.. What do they count the Tsarnaev Brothers? As both? Because they were definitely Caucasoid Muslims. Is Time only counting crimes perpetrated by American citizens?

If you read the Time article and then the source the give (https://www.newamerica.org/in-depth/terrorism-in-america/what-threat-united-states-today/#americas-layered-defenses), there is clearly a discrepancy. Time speaks of 'white right wing extremists' v 'jihadists' but their source is 'left wing v right wing v jihadist'. Then if you read further Time states that Jihadists have killed 26 people but their source claims 94. Tsk, tsk, just a little detective work (a click of a bloody mouse!) and their story falls apart.

Hmm, I think the 68 difference is probably the Pulse shooting, which again may be counted as jihadist or not depending on who's counting.

 

1 hour ago, Fernando said:

The extreme right from targeting Jewish people is not a new thing. It's a recurring thing that has been happening for ages. 

How we can prevent it? Well if rule the world I would move all the Jews to Israel, and kick out the Palestinian and give them a land in America like we did with Native American. 

Because no matter where the Jews are they are always targeted. America, Europe, etc etc

But that's not a nonfictional solution, so I would say that more then likely not much will be done. If anything the government will recommend more surveillance. 

These groups will be targeted, kinda like what Trump said for certain Mosque and such where he wanted to keep surveillance. 

I think that is what more then likely will happen in this scenario. 

Or we could try something a bit less obvious like battling antisemitism and preaching equality and tolerance....

 

1 hour ago, Fulham Broadway said:

That's your opinion, but  saying 'everyone has a right to free speech, but...'' is the thin end of the wedge and is fascism by the back door. Of course everything should be up for debate, no exceptions. Hide it underground and it's asking for trouble.

That sounds like the title of the worst porno ever made!  

Free speech, like any other form of freedom, cannot be absolute. You can't have the right to walk into a crowded night club and yell "Fire" and watch people trample each other. That's a limitation on freedom of speech. So is libel, direct threats of violence..etc.

The problem with having everything up for debate is that it ultimately boils down to the liberal notion of "market place of ideas" which just like the capitalist notion of "free market" ends up tilted in the favor of the fuckers with the most money and power. Both require first and foremost to funtion as theorized an informed 'consumer' which you cannot realistically have because of the advertisement industry and corporate owned media. 

That's not say that we should abandon debate and democracy. It just means that there are things, namely civil and human rights, that we cannot afford to leave up for debate.

To give a practical example: Is the government and army in Myanmar right to ethnically cleans tens of thousands of minority Muslims in Rohinga because a majority of its citizens want them ethnically cleansed? If you believe that everything should be up for debate, including whether or not to ethnically cleanse regions, and you believe in democracy, then the Myanmar government is not only right but even has an obligation to fulfill the will of the majority of its people and continue to do what is threatening to become a full blown genocide against Rohinyans.