Politics & Stuff

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Our conversation suddenly became very actual since there just was a deadly bombing in Beirut.Hope everything is ok and that there aren't too many casualties.

That's also what I wanted to ask you about actually, the political situation. Is sectarian violence between Shia and Sunni also a big issue in Beirut? And what do you think about Hezbollah? Though it is a recognized and participating political party in your country , countries like the USA, France and Netherlands classified it as a terrorist organisation. How is this viewed in Lebanon? At last, what do you think about their involvement in the Syrian civil war ?

Sigh.....Honestly I'm still in shock at the moment. This is the worst atrocity to hit the country since the Israeli assault in 2006. I want to joke and say you knew something and didn't tell me but the magnitude of the crime is just too much....sigh.

Politically, Lebanon has always been a sectarian country. Naturally there have been shockwaves of the sectarian divide in the region but generally nothing violent, just political. There have been some exceptions like rounds of violence between Islamic extremists and Alawites (technically not Shias but close) in Tripoli but most of the violence has been either directed towards the Lebanese army or towards civilians like was the case today.

What I think of Hizbollah is not a question that can be answered simply. I've talked before in this thread about what I think of labeling Hizbollah as terrorists. To begin with, the term itself is not one that I understand nor can find consistent meaning for. So give me your definition of a terrorist organization and I'll try to define them accordingly. As for my own opinion of them, I wrote this a couple of years ago on here in response to a similar question and it still stands mostly true:

This might be a little longer than you wanted, so I apologize for that, but it's a tricky subject that needs explaining if you're not from the region. I'll try to be as objective as possible.

Hezboullah started back in 1982 during the (second) Israeli invasion of Lebanon. They started as a religious extremist group. Not quite as bad as Al Qaeda, but not that far off, tbh. They forced people in the area they had under control to do as they want. But then again 1982 was in the middle of the Lebanese civil war and each militia was doing the exact same thing to the areas they had under their control. It's that just for Hezboullah it had a religious spin on it.

In the 90s, after the civil war ended (well the fighting ended, the civil has been ongoing since the 1840s), they were steadily becoming less "extreme". The Lebanese society is a very diverse one and everyone has to accept the other as no one can cancel anyone out. In fact, right now, if you take into account some of the religious extremist Qaeda-like groups we currently have, then Hezboullah is one of the more moderate religious groups. But they are an armed group, not just a political party.

During the 90s, they also became the only major side fighting against Israel here in Lebanon with the diminishing role of the Palestinians here and the secular armed parties. They had a couple of wars with Israel during the 90s and many monthly-basis missions up until the year 2000 when they managed to force Israel out of most of the south of Lebanon which they were still occupying since 1982. Some say that the Israelis retreated by themselves, other say Hezboullah forced them. I honestly have no idea which is true. But that triumph (along with the death of Hafez Al Asad and being succeeded by Bachar) gave Hezboullah some real backing from Syria and Iran and they now had some serious weapons at their disposal. We're talking about more than 50,000 short and medium range missiles at the very least estimate along with advanced anti-tank weapons (and we even saw a glimpse of anti-ships weapons in 2006).

This is where the US real issues with Hezboullah began. They were now a genuine threat to Israel and can change the 'equation' in the region. Before 2000, they would launch every month a few Katyusha missiles; half of them would miss and land inside Lebanon and the other half would cause panic and forest fires in Israel at worst. But this was no longer the case as became evident during the 2006 war. Hezboullah, with no more than 4-5 men in each village, managed to keep the Israelis out for more than 33 days while they fired thousands of missiles on Israel non-stop. This is when the US started really working on destroying the image of Hezboullah in Europe and in the Arab world.

In the internal issues, I have many problems with Hezboullah. For starters they are a sectarian party (as are all 'effective' parties in Lebanon). I do not share their beliefs nor do I belong to their ideology. But I accept that they are a large of the Lebanese demography and they completely accept that there are people that don't belong in their demography as well. But when it comes fighting Israel, let's just say that we were Israel's play-toy until Hezboullah came along. I have no doubt that the moment they give up their weapons, the Israeli army will be on Lebanese soil again.

The people who are with Hezboullah have a reputation of being religious, but they also have a reputation of being very polite, honest and incredibly organized (as a party and even a militia they are organized the extent that it's actually scary!).

As for the terrorist part, whenever someone says that I remember something from the 2006 war. Like all of those who live in the southern suburb of Beirut, I was forced out of my home to a safer area. But we would still go home at times to get clothes and stuff from our house and so that Dad can check on his store (I think we went 3 or 4 time during the 33 days). One of those time, we had to park the car far from the house because there were literally buildings collapsed in the middle of the streets. Hezboullah had left some of their people in the area to keep an eye on everything and stop anyone from robbing the vacant houses. Two of those guys were helping us to get to our house and urging us to get done quickly because it was not safe. We passed by the entrance of a building where a stray dog has gotten him self locked in with the gate shut. The poor guy must have been starving. So the Hezboullah guys opened the gate for him and gave him a can of canned meat which was probably supposed to be part of their lunch that day ( I later learned that those two guys got killed after a building was brought down on them). And coincidentally, that same day happened to be the day that an Israeli plane had destroyed two Red Cross vehicles that were transporting over 20 women and children from a village in the south killing them all. Then Rice has the nerve to come out and say that Israel are fighting the terrorist Hezboullah. Lmao.

PS: I'm too lazy to proof read this so sorry for any mistakes

Shortly, military wise in terms of resisting Israeli assaults the resistance has a near unanimous support from the people that goes well beyond political, ideological and even national barriers. In terms on internal politics Hezbollah has become part of the corrupt sectarian system in Lebanon (although not quite good at it as the rest of them).

As for the involvement in the Syrian civil war, it was done for selfish reasons. They did it to preserve their main weapons supply rout, a strong ally and the strength of the so called resistance axis. They were not motivated by the best interest of the country and its people. That said, in a purely practical sense their involvement has had a positive effect on the country to first and foremost secure the border which was taken by takfiri jihadis including several Lebanese villages (a Lebanese village called Arsal is still till now under Qaeda and ISIS rule) and to actually stop the actual war from spilling over into Lebanon and from turning into another Iraq which was an actual possibility. In a geo-strategic sense, as a multi-cultural and religion country our best interest is in Bashar Assad staying power. However the actual involvement cannot be justified neither morally nor legally. At the end of the end of the day they are still supporting a tyrant and a war criminal.

How this is viewed in Lebanon is only through the lens of one side or the other of the fighting in Syria because in Lebanon every political party is either with the regime or the rebels. So normally the criticism from their pro-gulf pro-USA opposition in Lebanon is invalid as those forces themselves helped fund and arm the Islamist extremists in Syria.

Apologies for the probably incoherent and poorly written post. As I said, I'm still in a bit of a shock to be completely honest.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

And of course the western media headlines the suicide bombing of one the poorest and most crowded market places in Lebanon resulting in the death of 43 civilians and the injuring of over 200 as "Bomb hits Hezbollah stronghold".... go figure.

[iseah100 5,612]

Reddit also has a board that was dedicated to interfering with a police investigation that forced the FBI to release information on the Boston Bombings earlier than they wanted.

"I-it was this guy! He has been missing for days! Let's continue this witch hunt! We did it reddit!"

Turns out the guy they fingered as the culprit killed himself several days earlier and all they did was fuck everything up for everyone.

Ahh, fuck reddit. the only good part of it is the porn.

That's one subreddit. There are intelligent posts on there. It's not as bad as 4chan, not perfect, but not as terrible as you're making it out to be.

[Spike 12,049]

That's one subreddit. There are intelligent posts on there. It's not as bad as 4chan, not perfect, but not as terrible as you're making it out to be.

I'm sorry senpai

[iseah100 5,612]

I'm sorry senpai

Que?

[herzogian 148]

First of all, thank you for your insightful and again very nuanced answers. Looking back at my initial post it gives away the stereotipical way in how I view countries in the Middle-East and how I put every country there under the same umbrella. I considered such bombings to be an everyday thing which of course they are not. I can not even begin to fathom how shocked everyone is and what this means for your country. I sincerely hope this will remain 'just' an isolated incident.

To begin with, the term itself is not one that I understand nor can find consistent meaning for.

Regarding terrorism, you're right it is a very dubious term. Even the United Nations has struggled to come up with a good and sound definition. Propably one of the reasons is that some definitions would also include Israel or the USA themselves as terrorist organisations. To answer with a cliché: one man's terrorist is another man's freedomfighter. If I read your assesement, in a sense, this also is the case in Lebanon. Hizbollah started and grew stronger as a reaction to the war(s) with Israel and this, obviously, also is the reason why Israel and its allies want to view it as a terrorist organisation. Always easier to have public opinion behind you when you can frame your enemy as a terrorist, the same is happening in Turkey right now with the PKK.

Regarding framing Hizbollah, or even broader in this case, Lebanese people as terrorists, this short story which maybe will interest you:

In Belgium there is a famous political activist and columnist of Lebanese orginin, Dyab Abou Jajah, who during the war in 2006 went to Lebanon to help. Though he was allready a contested figure in our country, due to the fact he doesn't exactly mince his words, upon his return the far right, Vlaams Belang, used his involvement in that war as a way to frame him as a extremist to take away his Belgium citizenship. Luckily thing cleared out and he is now quite a respected talkshowhost and columnist in our country.

This is not how the story ends however. Just recently with the elections of a new Labour leader some media used a meeting between Jeremy Corbyn, Jajah and Lebanese MP Hussein Hajj Hassan as a way to frame Corbyn as a dangerous fool who deals with terrorist organisations. Since Jajah is a rather well-known figure in Belgium this story was debunked quite rapidly but a lot of people fell for it and still believe it.

[lucio 5,418]

A judge has sentenced a former private schoolgirl to eight years in prison for duping another woman into believing she was a man before and having sex with her using a prosthetic penis.

Marketing manager Gayle Newland, 25, screamed 'I'm scared' to her family and had to be dragged to the cells after begging for a suspended sentence.

It has now been revealed that the presiding judge who handed her the lengthy jail term has previously given more lenient sentences to paedophiles - and once handed a teacher who abused 24 boys aged between eight and 13 to just six and a half years in prison

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3315157/Woman-duped-female-friend-sex-pretending-man-using-prosthetic-penis-jailed-8-years.html#ixzz3rN7rS8W5
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

uk law is so shit. might as well not have any law at all.

[Kieran. 6,317]

A judge has sentenced a former private schoolgirl to eight years in prison for duping another woman into believing she was a man before and having sex with her using a prosthetic penis.

Marketing manager Gayle Newland, 25, screamed 'I'm scared' to her family and had to be dragged to the cells after begging for a suspended sentence.

It has now been revealed that the presiding judge who handed her the lengthy jail term has previously given more lenient sentences to paedophiles - and once handed a teacher who abused 24 boys aged between eight and 13 to just six and a half years in prison

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3315157/Woman-duped-female-friend-sex-pretending-man-using-prosthetic-penis-jailed-8-years.html#ixzz3rN7rS8W5

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

uk law is so shit. might as well not have any law at all.

8 years for that? and the Paedos get off for less? Sounds about right

[lucio 5,418]

8 years for that? and the Paedos get off for less? Sounds about right

the government is teeming with paedos , so it's no surprise

[Fulham Broadway 17,337]

Mohammed Emwazi killed by drone strike. Good news.

[manpe 10,861]

WATCH: THE ANTI-MIGRANT VIDEO GOING VIRAL ACROSS EUROPE

Fuck Europe and its stupid leaders, it's becoming a shithole. One day I will move to Canada.

[manpe 10,861]

Our Muslims Brothers & Sisters are not happy:
They’re not happy in Gaza
They're not happy in Egypt
They're not happy in Libya
They're not happy in Morocco...
They're not happy in Iran
They're not happy in Iraq
They're not happy in Yemen
They're not happy in Afghanistan
They're not happy in Pakistan
They're not happy in Syria
They're not happy in Lebanon
Let’s find the reason WHY..
So, where are they happy?
They're happy in Australia
They're happy in England
They're happy in France
They're happy in Italy
They're happy in Germany
They're happy in Sweden
They're happy in the USA & Canada
They're happy in INDIA
They're happy in almost every country that is not Islamic!
And who do they blame?
Not Islam..
Not their leadership..
Not themselves..
THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!!
And they want to change the countries they're happy in, to be like the countries they came from where they were unhappy.
Can anyone work these people out? What’s wrong with them??
And look at this:
Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Christians = No Problem
Christians living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem
Confusians living with Bahai's = No Problem
Bahai's living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem
Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Bahai's = No Problem
Bahai's living with Christians = No Problem
Christians living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem
Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem
Now..
Muslims living with Hindus = Problem
Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem
Muslims living with Christians = Problem
Muslims living with Jews = Problem
Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem
Muslims living with Bahai's = Problem
Muslims living with Shintos = Problem
Muslims living with Atheists = Problem
MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS = HUGE PROBLEM !

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Our Muslims Brothers & Sisters are not happy:

They’re not happy in Gaza

They're not happy in Egypt

They're not happy in Libya

They're not happy in Morocco...

They're not happy in Iran

They're not happy in Iraq

They're not happy in Yemen

They're not happy in Afghanistan

They're not happy in Pakistan

They're not happy in Syria

They're not happy in Lebanon

Let’s find the reason WHY..

So, where are they happy?

They're happy in Australia

They're happy in England

They're happy in France

They're happy in Italy

They're happy in Germany

They're happy in Sweden

They're happy in the USA & Canada

They're happy in INDIA

They're happy in almost every country that is not Islamic!

And who do they blame?

Not Islam..

Not their leadership..

Not themselves..

THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!!

And they want to change the countries they're happy in, to be like the countries they came from where they were unhappy.

Can anyone work these people out? What’s wrong with them??

And look at this:

Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem

Hindus living with Christians = No Problem

Christians living with Shintos = No Problem

Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem

Confusians living with Bahai's = No Problem

Bahai's living with Jews = No Problem

Jews living with Atheists = No Problem

Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem

Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem

Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem

Hindus living with Bahai's = No Problem

Bahai's living with Christians = No Problem

Christians living with Jews = No Problem

Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem

Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem

Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem

Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem

Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem

Now..

Muslims living with Hindus = Problem

Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem

Muslims living with Christians = Problem

Muslims living with Jews = Problem

Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem

Muslims living with Bahai's = Problem

Muslims living with Shintos = Problem

Muslims living with Atheists = Problem

MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS = HUGE PROBLEM !

I'm not sure but it might have to do with the fact their original countries keep getting invaded, bombed and intentionally destabilized by those peace loving non-muslim governments.

Also, way to defined people based solely on their religious beliefs and to stereotype them all accordingly. That's always a great idea...sigh.

[Last Sicarius 610]

After this words:

"We will take refugees if we will know that will be safe for our country"~Konrad Szymański- Minister for European Affairs

European politics said:

Gold medal to #Poland for the most ridiculous&ignorant response to #ParisAttacks #Refugees flee war and persecution https://t.co/TE9xYBTYdB

— Lotte Leicht (@LotteLeicht1) listopad 14, 2015

#Poland says #Paris proves EU migrant policy flawed. Known position, but I'm astonished @ speed of criticism. Still blood on the streets

— Henry Foy (@HenryJFoy) listopad 14, 2015

Someone please tell Poland that the refugees coming to Europe are trying to escape exactly this kind of violence. https://t.co/FBG0jNMA4X

What if they bring this violence to us?

Why they dont let us think what we want?

[Rmpr 8,977]

Our Muslims Brothers & Sisters are not happy:

Theyre not happy in Gaza

They're not happy in Egypt

They're not happy in Libya

They're not happy in Morocco...

They're not happy in Iran

They're not happy in Iraq

They're not happy in Yemen

They're not happy in Afghanistan

They're not happy in Pakistan

They're not happy in Syria

They're not happy in Lebanon

Lets find the reason WHY..

So, where are they happy?

They're happy in Australia

They're happy in England

They're happy in France

They're happy in Italy

They're happy in Germany

They're happy in Sweden

They're happy in the USA & Canada

They're happy in INDIA

They're happy in almost every country that is not Islamic!

And who do they blame?

Not Islam..

Not their leadership..

Not themselves..

THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!!

And they want to change the countries they're happy in, to be like the countries they came from where they were unhappy.

Can anyone work these people out? Whats wrong with them??

And look at this:

Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem

Hindus living with Christians = No Problem

Christians living with Shintos = No Problem

Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem

Confusians living with Bahai's = No Problem

Bahai's living with Jews = No Problem

Jews living with Atheists = No Problem

Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem

Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem

Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem

Hindus living with Bahai's = No Problem

Bahai's living with Christians = No Problem

Christians living with Jews = No Problem

Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem

Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem

Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem

Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem

Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem

Now..

Muslims living with Hindus = Problem

Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem

Muslims living with Christians = Problem

Muslims living with Jews = Problem

Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem

Muslims living with Bahai's = Problem

Muslims living with Shintos = Problem

Muslims living with Atheists = Problem

MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS = HUGE PROBLEM !

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen in the Internet...

[herpthederp 122]

I'm not sure but it might have to do with the fact their original countries keep getting invaded, bombed and intentionally destabilized by those peace loving non-muslim governments.

Who's invading Pakistan?

[kellzfresh 7,229]

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen in the Internet...

He didn't mention the other side of the problem which is people invading muslim countries. Leading to anger and hatred.

But you can't deny the fact that when it comes to a group of people who don't live peacefully with other people from another tribe, religion, even among themselves, Muslims are number 1 in this aspect because they're easily influenced to be violent. They fight among their fellow Muslims, sunnis, kurdish and shiite's fighting with themselves for whatever reason. Just imagine if catholics are fighting with Anglican or pentecostal churches ... That's how weird it feels..

They need to accept that their ability to be easily brainwashed to doing suicide bombing and carry out acts of violence far more than anyone else is also part of their problem.

Why would I easily be brainwashed by idiots telling me to kill and die so that I get 100 virgins?

All in all, what I'm trying to say is Western influence are part of the problem, because of their hunt for oil resources, but the character of the people can't be ignored.

[manpe 10,861]

After this words:

"We will take refugees if we will know that will be safe for our country"~Konrad Szymański- Minister for European Affairs

European politics said:

What if they bring this violence to us?

Why they dont let us think what we want?

You have leaders with balls and I hope you stay true to your stance. The way EU have been acting past few years should be ringing alarm bells to every European nation, because we are getting closer and closer to one unified central government if we haven't already. They are just pissing all over nations' constitutions. Over here nobody wants those "refugees" to come here and they don't want to come here either because we don't offer social benefits like Germany or Sweden, but as always the government elected by the people doesn't give two shits what their people think and their only concern is licking Brüssel's butthole. Oh and Merkel and Juncker can go fuck themselves.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

He didn't mention the other side of the problem which is people invading muslim countries. Leading to anger and hatred.

But you can't deny the fact that when it comes to a group of people who don't live peacefully with other people from another tribe, religion, even among themselves, Muslims are number 1 in this aspect because they're easily influenced to be violent. They fight among their fellow Muslims, sunnis, kurdish and shiite's fighting with themselves for whatever reason. Just imagine if catholics are fighting with Anglican or pentecostal churches ... That's how weird it feels..

They need to accept that their ability to be easily brainwashed to doing suicide bombing and carry out acts of violence far more than anyone else is also part of their problem.

Why would I easily be brainwashed by idiots telling me to kill and die so that I get 100 virgins?

All in all, what I'm trying to say is Western influence are part of the problem, because of their hunt for oil resources, but the character of the people can't be ignored.

That was Ireland for a VERY long time recently.

The religion, while being a part of the problem, isn't really the entire story. Low income/lower class people no matter their location will often display such antisocial behavior because it is normal human behavior that has to be taught out of you with education, and later civic responsibility.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

That was Ireland for a VERY long time recently.

I'm sure they weren't smuggling heavy weapons, rocket launchers and having suicide bomb attacks against each other. Even if there were wars it's not happening in our current generation. As it should be in every religion worldwide.

The religion, while being a part of the problem, isn't really the entire story. Low income/lower class people no matter their location will often display such antisocial behavior because it is normal human behavior that has to be taught out of you with education, and later civic responsibility.

Lack of education is a real problem like you said. But they have spiritual leaders, I'm disappointed in most of them. Many Muslims listen to them so if they stress more on telling the people to not condone violence even if you don't revenge, it will reduce over the years.