Politics & Stuff

[Amad_diallo 16]

This war on gaza is so wrong on so many different levels. America wanna hold Russia accountable. 

But let Israel have at it and wipe hamas of the planet earth including bombing hospital,  committing   war crime after war crimes killing civilians 

Whenever there's war America is involved in some way shape or form. And then they wanna call the middle east terrorist's yeah right !!

 

[Fernando 6,456]

On 21/10/2023 at 16:00, Amad_diallo said:

This war on gaza is so wrong on so many different levels. America wanna hold Russia accountable. 

But let Israel have at it and wipe hamas of the planet earth including bombing hospital,  committing   war crime after war crimes killing civilians 

Whenever there's war America is involved in some way shape or form. And then they wanna call the middle east terrorist's yeah right !!

 

Is not just hypocrisy on the US, but the entire world. No one wants to get in because of risking WW3. 

If people cared long ago they would have enter to help Ukraine but nooooo because they are scared of Putin. 

If people cared long ago they would have enter to help the people of Afghanistan that US left a black hole, but noooo because US fault and there is no interested for us in helping. 

And now here in the Israel. 

In the end it's the same everywhere. Not jus the US but the entire world, I mean that's why UN was created for? To coordinate with other countries so that each countries send their troops since UN don't have military. But here the world don't get in. So it's not just US, but the entire world. If the world wanted to get something done, long ago would have gotten it done. But fear of nuke wars and no vested interest is what drives the world to just talk and no action. 

[robsblubot 3,504]

On 21/10/2023 at 13:28, Amad_diallo said:

No I was not referring to you or the links, just stating overall because im watching the news al Jazeera as we speak.

Fair enough, but in my personal take of what news is, both Fox News and al Jazeera don't qualify. This does not necessarily have anything to do with the conflict, mind you. 

For example, less than an hour after the attack on the hospital in Gaza, the headline on Al Jazeera was that "Israel bombs..." Hey everybody has biases, even journalists, but making claims like that just doesn't work for me. It's like they are simply not doing their job.

It's little more than opinions on social media. Everything you read or watch is very much a personal take on a pice of news, or a fake.

It's often OK to say, "we don't know." when you don't know. 

"The New York Times walked back its initial coverage on the explosion that killed hundreds of Palestinians at a Gaza Strip hospital last week, saying in an editors’ note that the newspaper “relied too heavily on claims” made by the Hamas militant group."
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/23/gaza-hospital-new-york-times-00122986

One of my main fears of the immediate future is the deterioration of the news media. "News for profit" with shareholders can become very vulnerable to the "smart moneys."

[Fulham Broadway 16,838]

 

[Fernando 6,456]

Israel shows Hamas bodycam attack footage to journalists

The Israeli military held a screening for journalists on Monday of raw footage recovered from Hamas body cameras, in an effort to remind the world of the brutality of the attack on Israel two weeks ago.

The bodycam footage, cut together with clips from CCTV, dashboard cameras and the mobile phones of both Hamas gunmen and victims, showed in stark detail the sheer horror visited on a music festival and family neighbourhoods in southern Israel.

The Israeli military also released documents which they said were recovered from dead Hamas members, containing detailed operational planning and instructions for attacking the neighbourhoods and taking hostages.

The 43 minutes of footage screened in Tel Aviv on Monday was distilled from hundreds of hours of footage collected since the attack, the Israeli military said. It contained clips of Hamas gunmen cheering with apparent joy as they shot civilians on the road, and later stalking the pathways of kibbutzim and killing parents and children in their homes.

One traumatic sequence, taken from home cameras inside of a kibbutz, showed a father rushing his two young boys into an above ground shelter, seconds before Hamas attackers threw a grenade in, killing the father and wounding the boys.

 

After the two boys, bloodied and in shock, had staggered back into their home screaming, a Hamas gunman calmly entered and looked through the fridge in front of them, pausing to take a drink before walking out again.

 

One of the boys cried to his brother: "Daddy is dead, this is not a prank," and repeated "Why am I alive"? His brother was apparently blinded by the grenade. The military spokesman present was unable to say whether they survived.

 

The film also contained an audio recording of one of the Hamas gunmen calling home to his parents in Gaza from the phone of a victim to boast that he had "killed at least 10 Jews with my bare hands".

 

"Please open WhatsApp and look how many dead," he implored his parents repeatedly, apparently referring to pictures or video he had sent home showing the attack. "Your son killed so many Jews," he said. "Mum, your son is a hero."

 

Another sequence showed one Hamas gunman shooting the apparently dead bodies of civilians inside a kibbutz in a celebratory manner, and an attempt to decapitate someone who appeared to be still alive using a garden hoe.

 

The footage, some taken from mobile phones of victims, also showed the abject fear of those who hid in safe rooms and shelters as the sounds of gunfire and explosions came closer.

 

The decision to screen the raw footage for journalists reflected an apparent frustration among senior ranks of the Israeli military that the media coverage of Hamas's brutal attack on 7 October had given way to coverage of Israel's air strikes against Gaza and the humanitarian crisis created by Israel's order for Gazans to migrate south.

 

Speaking to the assembled international media after the screening, Major General Michael Edelstein, a former IDF Gaza division commander, said he had been "shocked" by the coverage.

 

"We see that some of the channels are trying to compare what Israel is doing and what those vile terrorists are doing," General Edelstein said.

 

"I cannot understand anyone who compares," he said. "And after what we have shared with you, you should know it."

 

More than 1,400 Israelis have been killed since the Hamas attack on 7 October, according to Israeli authorities - the vast majority in the initial assault. More than 220 are believed to have been taken hostage inside Gaza.

 

The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza says more than 5,000 Palestinians have been killed since Israel's air strikes began in response, and according to the Palestinian health ministry in the occupied West Bank, 91 Palestinians have been killed there since 7 October.

 

After the screening of the footage on Monday, a virtual reality experience was available, created using video from the first responders who entered family homes in the kibbutzim targeted by Hamas.

 

The Israeli military also released two instruction manuals taken from dead Hamas gunmen, containing detailed plans for the attack and for taking hostages.

 

"They must shoot down as many victims as possible, take hostages and take some of them to the Gaza Strip using various cars," said one part of the manual.

 

In a separate document specifically about hostages, the Hamas operatives were instructed to "kill the problematic and those who pose a threat" and gather others together to use as "cannon fodder".

 

Israel's military is still reeling from the 7 October attack, the worst breach of its defences in the south in 50 years. Despite huge resources being put into destroying Hamas tunnels and expanding Israel's security fence both below ground and out to sea, Hamas was able to storm and breach the fence in huge numbers.

 

More than 1,000 militants crossed into Israel in the initial incursion, General Edelstein said on Monday. The first parts of the video compilation showed groups of pick-up trucks packed with Hamas gunmen, driving freely along Israeli highways and shooting civilians at will.

 

The documents recovered from the bodies of the Hamas militants made it clear that Hamas "came with orders to slaughter and burn citizens", General Edelstein said.

 

"They simply decided to burn families within their homes. And they took hostages alive, they were aiming to take children back into Gaza," he said.

 

"Orders were there for how many to kill, how many to take as hostages. Orders were there to rape, all was written and ordered."

 

Speaking before the screening, Israeli military spokesman Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari said that members of the military had debated whether to show the footage, but that he had decided personally to go ahead.

 

"We understand already that we need to create a collective memory for the future," he said. "We will not let the world forget."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67198270

…................................................................. 

 

Wow after seeing things like this it reminds me of USA and September 11. The country was mad and went into a dumb war that at the end we just left it worse. 

Seems like the same here. The Israeli are mad and won't be stopping for a while. It's sad because a lot of people that are innocent get caught in this. But just like with usa and Afghanistan, sadly this would last a while as well. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,838]

Explains a lot -but have to watch on youtube for some reason

best rated comment -As an Israeli I am against Netanyahu and against the settlements, many of us have always been and still are. What’s happening right now is just unbearable. Thank you for not being afraid to show the whole picture, and for not picking sides as if human beings getting killed or worse could somehow be less important when politics are involved.

 

[Fulham Broadway 16,838]

 

[Vesper 28,796]

19 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

 

a must watch

[Fulham Broadway 16,838]

12 minutes ago, Vesper said:

a must watch

Exactly mate. You dont have to be a Muslim or any religion, just a human being, to challenge the apartheid occupation of peoples houses and slaughter of women and children - 350 today alone.

[Fernando 6,456]

7 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Explains a lot -but have to watch on youtube for some reason

best rated comment -As an Israeli I am against Netanyahu and against the settlements, many of us have always been and still are. What’s happening right now is just unbearable. Thank you for not being afraid to show the whole picture, and for not picking sides as if human beings getting killed or worse could somehow be less important when politics are involved.

 

Sounds like conspiracy theory. Kind of of like of the USA with 911. 

Hey everyone can have their own opinion, but I don't agree with those conspiracy theory. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,838]

15 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Sounds like conspiracy theory. Kind of of like of the USA with 911. 

Hey everyone can have their own opinion, but I don't agree with those conspiracy theory. 

Maybe. Which bit do you think is a conspiracy ?

[Fernando 6,456]

Just now, Fulham Broadway said:

Maybe. Which bit do you think is a conspiracy ?

That the leader of Israel knew and turn a blind eye. Basically that is what is saying, Netanyahu knew and so on. 

Sounds similar to the conspiracy theory of USA with Bush and all that stuff. 

Made for a great documentary back then the Fahrenheit 911 and stuff like that. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,838]

6 minutes ago, Fernando said:

That the leader of Israel knew and turn a blind eye. Basically that is what is saying, Netanyahu knew and so on. 

Yeah maybe. Israel has one of the best intelligence and eavesdropping services in the World, and the second biggest military capability in the World per capita, yet in response to the attacks outside Gaza they took 8, 13, and 20 hours to respond respectively. Seems a bit weird, maybe they had a day off.

Netanyahu “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” Netanuahu to his cabinet 2019.

[Fernando 6,456]

1 hour ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Yeah maybe. Israel has one of the best intelligence and eavesdropping services in the World, and the second biggest military capability in the World per capita, yet in response to the attacks outside Gaza they took 8, 13, and 20 hours to respond respectively. Seems a bit weird, maybe they had a day off.

Netanyahu “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” Netanuahu to his cabinet 2019.

Or they where overconfidence and they didn't think something like this could happen. But rest assure they will do their investigation and if  it's true then he will be condemn and go to jail. If not and it was just a fault of over self confidence, then things will change. 

And as far as that quote from 2019, I'm trying to find it but all i get is sketchy places.....You got one from a reputable sources? 

[Fulham Broadway 16,838]

10 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Or they where overconfidence and they didn't think something like this could happen. But rest assure they will do their investigation and if  it's true then he will be condemn and go to jail. If not and it was just a fault of over self confidence, then things will change. 

Massive groundswell in Israel for Netanyahu to go once this is all over

 

11 minutes ago, Fernando said:

And as far as that quote from 2019, I'm trying to find it but all i get is sketchy places.....You got one from a reputable sources? 

Warning: Benjamin Netanyahu is walking right into Hamas’s trap | Jonathan Freedland | The Guardian

Jonathan Freedland is Jewish.

Also I have Evangelical Christian friends in the US who were brought up to see Israel as the cradle of Christianity, even they are turning away from the pariah apartheid regime now.

[Fernando 6,456]

31 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Massive groundswell in Israel for Netanyahu to go once this is all over

 

Warning: Benjamin Netanyahu is walking right into Hamas’s trap | Jonathan Freedland | The Guardian

Jonathan Freedland is Jewish.

Also I have Evangelical Christian friends in the US who were brought up to see Israel as the cradle of Christianity, even they are turning away from the pariah apartheid regime now.

I check the article, guy is saying something similar I mentioned that just like US with 911 they went with rage and did some bad decisions. Similar here Israel.  

But I checked the quote and it took me to Vox and this is what Vox said: 

Second, a columnist at Israel’s Ha’aretz newspaper unearthed evidence that Netanyahu has intentionally propped up Hamas rule in Gaza — seeing Palestinian extremism as a bulwark against a two-state solution to the conflict.

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” the prime minister reportedly said at a 2019 meeting of his Likud party. “This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

These exact comments have not yet been confirmed by other sources. But the Times of Israel’s Tal Schneider wrote on Sunday that Netanyahu’s reported words “are in line with the policy that he implemented,” which did little to challenge and in some ways bolstered Hamas’s control over the Gaza Strip. Moreover, Schneider notes, “the same messaging was repeated by right-wing commentators, who may have received briefings on the matter or talked to Likud higher-ups and understood the message.” Some Netanyahu confidants have said the same thing, as have outside experts.

https://www.vox.com/23910085/netanyahu-israel-right-hamas-gaza-war-history

That sounds like a he said, she said. Those quotes as far I can see are no concrete as it's not taking it back to 2019, but to just recent articles.....

 

[Fulham Broadway 16,838]

Just now, Fernando said:

I check the article, guy is saying something similar I mentioned that just like US with 911 they went with rage and did some bad decisions. Similar here Israel.  

But I checked the quote and it took me to Vox and this is what Vox said: 

Second, a columnist at Israel’s Ha’aretz newspaper unearthed evidence that Netanyahu has intentionally propped up Hamas rule in Gaza — seeing Palestinian extremism as a bulwark against a two-state solution to the conflict.

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” the prime minister reportedly said at a 2019 meeting of his Likud party. “This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

These exact comments have not yet been confirmed by other sources. But the Times of Israel’s Tal Schneider wrote on Sunday that Netanyahu’s reported words “are in line with the policy that he implemented,” which did little to challenge and in some ways bolstered Hamas’s control over the Gaza Strip. Moreover, Schneider notes, “the same messaging was repeated by right-wing commentators, who may have received briefings on the matter or talked to Likud higher-ups and understood the message.” Some Netanyahu confidants have said the same thing, as have outside experts.

https://www.vox.com/23910085/netanyahu-israel-right-hamas-gaza-war-history

That sounds like a he said, she said. Those quotes as far I can see are no concrete as it's not taking it back to 2019, but to just recent articles.....

 

The Guardian would not quote Netanyahu without absolute guaranteed authenticity - they would be sued to the extreme. Though you can understand the Israeli  PR machine doing whatever it could to bury the quote.

[Fernando 6,456]

Just now, Fulham Broadway said:

The Guardian would not quote Netanyahu without absolute guaranteed authenticity - they would be sued to the extreme. Though you can understand the Israeli  PR machine doing whatever it could to bury the quote.

But I can agree with the article because I remember after September 11 no one thought with a cool head. It was just a rage to get pay back. 

With what Hamas did, Israel is in a similar mode. And that is the sad part, because yes Hamas are a terrorist organization, but a lot of innocent people are dying. That is always the worst part of war  weather here in Israel, Ukraine, wars in Africa etc etc.