Politics & Stuff

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

6 minutes ago, Spike said:

Denmark isn't western Europe, which is what you mentioned earlier. New Zealand is ranked higher on HDI than every country in western Europe except for the Netherlands

Western Europe as in the parts of Europe that were not behind the iron curtain... The whole of Scandinavia is very much Western Europe in their minds. Looking at the HDI: Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, Germany, The Netherlands and Ireland all score higher than New Zealand. That was not the point though, the point is why did you say New Zealand is one of the five greatest countries on the planet when a whole lot of other ones could make an equal or better claim. I'm sure it's a very nice country and I'd love to visit, but it was a weird thing to say. 

[Spike 12,049]

Just now, johnnythefirst said:

Western Europe as in the parts of Europe that were not behind the iron curtain... The whole of Scandinavia is very much Western Europe in their minds. Looking at the HDI: Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, Germany, The Netherlands and Ireland all score higher than New Zealand. That was not the point though, the point is why did you say New Zealand is one of the five greatest countries on the planet when a whole lot of other ones could make an equal or better claim. I'm sure it's a very nice country and I'd love to visit, but it was a weird thing to say. 

My edited post:

 But at the end of the day, most of the best countries in the world would just be drawing strings in comparison and would be down to the person that lives in the nation. The US, Canada, NZ and Australia all share cultural roots, live in the anglosphere and have an unprecedented level of freedom and equality and that's my preference. Hell, someone's preference might be Sharia...

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

My edited post:

 But at the end of the day, most of the best countries in the world would just be drawing strings in comparison and would be down to the person that lives in the nation. The US, Canada, NZ and Australia all share cultural roots, live in the anglosphere and have an unprecedented level of freedom and equality and that's my preference. Hell, someone's preference might be Sharia...

I'm just saying there's no difference in the level of freedom and equality between Germany/The Netherlands/Canada/Norway/Australia/New Zealand/whatever other modern democratic country. :-)

I'm deliberately leaving the US out of this comparison for now because I'm afraid they're endangering their own level of freedom in several ways these days. Unprecedented attacks by the government on the press for example, are not cool and do not belong in a democracy. We'll see what happens there. 

[Spike 12,049]

So this was just passed in Ontario, Canada

Does that mean people can't say 'Fuck Islam' but can say 'Fuck Catholicism'? So when I think of Canada, I think of the Scottish, English and French; hence the reason everything has a French or Scottish name. I'm just curious what 'significant contributions' Islam has made in Ontario. I wouldn't expect Turkmenistan to state 'significant contributions' from the Sudanese if it simply isn't true.

Canada has never been diverse either...it's always been dominantly white.

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

7 minutes ago, Spike said:

So this was just passed in Ontario, Canada

Does that mean people can't say 'Fuck Islam' but can say 'Fuck Catholicism'? So when I think of Canada, I think of the Scottish, English and French; hence the reason everything has a French or Scottish name. I'm just curious what 'significant contributions' Islam has made in Ontario. I wouldn't expect Turkmenistan to state 'significant contributions' from the Sudanese if it simply isn't true.

Canada has never been diverse either...it's always been dominantly white.

People living and working there? Paying taxes? Being doctors or teachers or garbage men or kebab place owners? Is that not a contribution? I live in Antwerp, in between a whole lot of muslims, and the vast majority of them is friendly and law abiding, exactly like the vast majority of non-muslims. Some people on the other hand, are assholes, but you'll always have a couple of those. 

 

Everyone just needs to chill out a bit and look at the problems ahead. The rise of extreme right nationalism in Europe is far more concerning than a couple of desert dwellers in Syria and Iraq planning their next attack. Last time it happened, it meant war and genocide. Tell me I'm exaggerating, but when a bunch of bald dudes proudly start doing the hitler salute again, and when condemned racists lead the polls in France and Holland for example, that ACTUALLY worries me. All of that jihadi shit in Europe combined makes for less casualties than one year on the Belgian highway.  

[Spike 12,049]

11 minutes ago, johnnythefirst said:

People living and working there? Paying taxes? Being doctors or teachers or garbage men or kebab place owners? Is that not a contribution? I live in Antwerp, in between a whole lot of muslims, and the vast majority of them is friendly and law abiding, exactly like the vast majority of non-muslims. Some people on the other hand, are assholes, but you'll always have a couple of those. 

 

Everyone just needs to chill out a bit and look at the problems ahead. The rise of extreme right nationalism in Europe is far more concerning than a couple of desert dwellers in Syria and Iraq planning their next attack. Last time it happened, it meant war and genocide. Tell me I'm exaggerating, but when a bunch of bald dudes proudly start doing the hitler salute again, and when condemned racists lead the polls in France and Holland for example, that ACTUALLY worries me. All of that jihadi shit in Europe combined makes for less casualties than one year on the Belgian highway.  

 

That's not really a 'significant contribution' though, Canada isn't exactly lacking in doctors, teacher, garbos or taxpayers. I don't give two shits about Muslims but I do give several about the truth and the truth is that Canada has never been diverse and the most important people in Canadian history are white people; that isn't racist that is just simply what happened. It seems like they are almost embarrassed by their own history and are using wording to erase that history. Besides, it is a restriction of free speech if I can talk smack about one institution and not another.

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

16 minutes ago, Spike said:

 

That's not really a 'significant contribution' though, Canada isn't exactly lacking in doctors, teacher, garbos or taxpayers. I don't give two shits about Muslims but I do give several about the truth and the truth is that Canada has never been diverse and the most important people in Canadian history are white people; that isn't racist that is just simply what happened. It seems like they are almost embarrassed by their own history and are using wording to erase that history. Besides, it is a restriction of free speech if I can talk smack about one institution and not another.

Nowhere in that statement it says that it's okay for other races and religions to attack or talk smack about white people or Christianity. You just seem angry for no reason. Mosques have been burned in Canada, so they're asking people to you know, not do that anymore cause it isn't cool. They're just telling everyone to not be an asshole anymore if they please. Also, why are you so obsessed with race? What does it matter if anyone is black or white or brown or fucking baby pink? Muslims are living in Ontario now - this is a fact - and since most of them have jobs, they are contributing to society and should therefor be protected just as well as everybody else living there. I'm getting so sad of all these useless arguments getting thrown around on a daily basis from all sides in the last few years. Suck it up and get along with each other. 

[Spike 12,049]

18 minutes ago, johnnythefirst said:

Nowhere in that statement it says that it's okay for other races and religions to attack or talk smack about white people or Christianity. You just seem angry for no reason. Mosques have been burned in Canada, so they're asking people to you know, not do that anymore cause it isn't cool. They're just telling everyone to not be an asshole anymore if they please. Also, why are you so obsessed with race? What does it matter if anyone is black or white or brown or fucking baby pink? Muslims are living in Ontario now - this is a fact - and since most of them have jobs, they are contributing to society and should therefor be protected just as well as everybody else living there. I'm getting so sad of all these useless arguments getting thrown around on a daily basis from all sides in the last few years. Suck it up and get along with each other. 

I'm not obsessed with race, the statement from the Ontario government is; I never mentioned white people in concerns with hate speech, that is you. Arson is illegal regardless of this law, that is a pointless statement to make because this isn't about arson, it's about free speech. You seem to think I'm anti-Islam, did you not read what I posted? You are just projecting a European right-wing rhetoric on me. I don't give two tosses about Islam or how many Muslims have jobs but Islam doesn't deserve rights above or below any other religion and when an Ontario law forbids any form of Islamophobia (that will include criticisms) I do have an issue. I'd have the same issue with Christianity, Judaism or damn Zoroastrianism. What is stopping a Muslim from conflating 'I disagree with Sharia' as hate speech? As that can easily be considered as intolerance to a fundamental aspect of Islam.According to section two of the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms; all Canadians have the right to criticise religion; including Islam; what the Ontario government has done is in direct violation to this section.

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;

(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

(d) freedom of association.

 

If we look at the semantics of the statements if a minority group that is new to the nation is 'significant' then what are the Quebecois? 'Astronomical'? Canada was 90% white up until 1996, where is this historical 'diversity' outside of different white ethnic groups? I'm obsessed with the truth, not race and the truth is that the Ontario statement is a plain lie and I hate it when governments lie; that is the source of my dispute.

 

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

You pick out the one term that could be seen as ambiguous, but you're leaving out all of the anti-hate, anti-violence, anti-discrimination rethoric. The Canadian government is just showing its support. There is nothing wrong with that statement in my eyes. You can still criticize if you want to, a civil discussion is not illegal. 

[Spike 12,049]

2 minutes ago, johnnythefirst said:

You pick out the one term that could be seen as ambiguous, but you're leaving out all of the anti-hate, anti-violence, anti-discrimination rethoric. The Canadian government is just showing its support. There is nothing wrong with that statement in my eyes. You can still criticize if you want to, a civil discussion is not illegal. 

All it takes is one term to be ambiguous. That is the reason why anchor babies exist in America. In 1982 Plyer vs Doe a supreme court ruling had one single statement that changed the laws of America allowing children born in the US to be de-facto citizens. Anti-hate, anti-violence, anti-discrimination is already covered by the Canadian government all this does is create a new set of all that apply to people only of a certain faith; that isn't equality.  Ambiguity creates loopholes to be exploited.

' no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment "jurisdiction" can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful.'

 

[Spike 12,049]

I love these. libertarian-right 4 lyfe

[Spike 12,049]

@Sir Mikel OBE @kmk108

Good talk about the Yiannopoulis controversy.