Politics & Stuff

[Spike 12,049]

2 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

No, I'm talking about the record number of threats and attacks on Jewish centers. Those are definitely YOUR guys.

 

Do you genuinely believe that it could all be conspiracy or that it's all made up(yes I know that that is not exactly what you said)? Knowingly or not you are pertuating right wing tactics of muddying the water enough to create the illusion that it is up for debate. They use this with climate change.

There are plenty of groups who document such attacks like the southern poverty law center. Or you can go by the info the FBI release. No matter what set of data you look at the trend is undeniable. 

But even if you want to forget stats, just go out and talk with people in those minority groups about what they experience. Talk to a hijab wearing muslim girl and she will almost certainly have several stories for you.

The emboldening of fascists as a result of Trump is also undeniable. A year ago you did not have white supremacist advising the president, you didn't have neonazis featured in mainstream media and papers and you definitely wouldn't have seen nazi salutes in a conference in the middle of DC. 

No, but I do believe that there are crazy lefty people out there that will use their victim-hood card to propagate their views. I just cannot take anything at face value, especially when we live in a world that has devalued the word 'rape' to the point it no longer resembles what it was a decade ago. I just don't know what constitutes as 'hate crime' anymore. 

I work with several people from minority groups and they haven't experienced any of this, nor I have I witnessed it. Nor has anyone in my wife's immediate family (and the time it did was twenty years ago). I don't know where this is all happening but it isn't around me. I encounter fucking assholes at my work all the time but I've never experienced or been told of racism, sexism, and religious bias. I cannot and I won't speak for everyone in America but to me it really does seem like it is being blown out of proportion. The way it is portrayed in the media, you'd think my wife would be getting her head kicked in by Neo-Nazis once a day. I'm not saying it doesn't happen nor am I saying it hasn't increased but it does seem to not be as widespread as you'd imagine. America really isn't as racist as people portray it.

Steve Bannon isn't a white supremacist. I'm sick of defending the guy, I don't even like him, I just know it's completely untrue. If you want to insult him, just call him a moral-less lizard that will manipulate a media empire to extract money out of a niche audience. He may be a greedy, money and power hungry asshole, but a white supremacist he is not. I just don't see a true white supremacist associating with a Jewish company.

[kmk108 1,186]

3 minutes ago, Spike said:

Yes, I did briefly. The educators are robots that punch out the same lecture five times a day and have perfected the facade of 'caring educator'. Why does a university that offers courses in 'philosophy of love' deserve federal funding. On the opposite end, tenured faculty can be the worst educators, make the most money and never be fired. Kids aren't learning anything because we have infantilised learning and a certified failed system from the 50s. People put to much faith in the government, 'it's how things are, schools need more funding'. Funding has been at a 45 degree angle since the 80s, while test scores are plummeting. The entire system needs to be revolutionised.  

Thinking further, I have to curb back my statement that they all cared. However, the vast majority of my professors did care. I took a class called "Rhetoric and Memory of Violence". On the surface it sounds like a throwaway course, but it's one of the courses where I practiced applicable skills. It won't directly apply to being an accountant or an engineer like specialized education for that field would, but it was still valuable nonetheless. It's easy to dismiss a course based on title, but you have to look at what goes on in that classroom. Again, I think the system needs to change, with more preparation for adult life and more focus on preparing students for a certain profession, but I don't think we should just cut off funding for schools.

Quote

On a side note, thankfully the free market stepped into action and charter schools are romping into shitty black and Latino neighbourhoods and whipping truant kids into shape with tact, discipline and harsh rules. Nothing says 'success' when a kid from a broken home in East-Harlem is now studying at university. Handouts won't fix these kids that have been dealt the worst hand in America, but the rough hand of the free-market will. How American is that? Through sheer hard work and dedication people are pulling these kids up by their bootstraps and giving them a chance at a future that they were never going to have a chance at

In theory, why couldn't publicly funded schools do the same if the methods of education were to change? 

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I don't know about that, but I do know the reason why Public Enemy's first several albums are lauded critically is because of a skinny white nerd that was a musical prodigy produced the entire thing from scratch. It sure does make some people uncomfortable knowing that some of the most famous hip-hop has been designed by nerdy white dudes.

Who is uncomfortable? There's plenty of white people in the industry.

[Spike 12,049]

Also I believe the Southern Poverty Centre like I believe Breitbart. Politicised nonsense.

[kmk108 1,186]

6 minutes ago, Spike said:

No, but I do believe that there are crazy lefty people out there that will use their victim-hood card to propagate their views. I just cannot take anything at face value, especially when we live in a world that has devalued the word 'rape' to the point it no longer resembles what it was a decade ago. I just don't know what constitutes as 'hate crime' anymore. 

I work with several people from minority groups and they haven't experienced any of this, nor I have I witnessed it. Nor has anyone in my wife's immediate family (and the time it did was twenty years ago). I don't know where this is all happening but it isn't around me. I encounter fucking assholes at my work all the time but I've never experienced or been told of racism, sexism, and religious bias. I cannot and I won't speak for everyone in America but to me it really does seem like it is being blown out of proportion. The way it is portrayed in the media, you'd think my wife would be getting her head kicked in by Neo-Nazis once a day. I'm not saying it doesn't happen nor am I saying it hasn't increased but it does seem to not be as widespread as you'd imagine. America really isn't as racist as people portray it.

Steve Bannon isn't a white supremacist. I'm sick of defending the guy, I don't even like him, I just know it's completely untrue. If you want to insult him, just call him a moral-less lizard that will manipulate a media empire to extract money out of a niche audience. He may be a greedy, money and power hungry asshole, but a white supremacist he is not. I just don't see a true white supremacist associating with a Jewish company.

Bannon is considered a white supremacist because he supports the alt-right movement. But I agree that doesn't make him a white supremacist. People on all sides are going to these buzz words way too fast these days and all it's doing is creating further divide and sensationalism. The other forum I frequent has had to ban politics because the moderators can't be bothered to monitor all of the threads in order to keep them peaceful. It's one of the things that I like about this thread. We can talk about all of this without getting in pissing matches. That's what our public discourse is lacking. Not just in America, but around the world.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

This is Trump's mum her hairstyle is more outlandish then her bellend of a son's. In the name of sanity what is that?. This won't mean a thing to our overseas members but it looks like a giant Quaver.

 

 

[Spike 12,049]

Just now, kmk108 said:

Thinking further, I have to curb back my statement that they all cared. However, the vast majority of my professors did care. I took a class called "Rhetoric and Memory of Violence". On the surface it sounds like a throwaway course, but it's one of the courses where I practiced applicable skills. It won't directly apply to being an accountant or an engineer like specialized education for that field would, but it was still valuable nonetheless. It's easy to dismiss a course based on title, but you have to look at what goes on in that classroom. Again, I think the system needs to change, with more preparation for adult life and more focus on preparing students for a certain profession, but I don't think we should just cut off funding for schools.

In theory, why couldn't publicly funded schools do the same if the methods of education were to change? 

Who is uncomfortable? There's plenty of white people in the industry.

You don't need to go to school to be prepared for adult life. In the past that was what summer jobs were for. A teenager will learn more about the world flipping hamburgers for shit money than they would getting high by using their parent's allowance. Now they are lazy and won't do it because illegals do it for dirt money. Hard to convince a teenager to learn responsibility and hard work when they are earning $2 p/h. Hell, it's gotten to the point where blacks can't even get work in SoCal because speaking Spanish is a prerequisite for customer service. University isn't for everyone, some people are stupid and that's okay. They can learn a trade, be a welder or plumber, but no one wants to do that because they have been sold an idea by the baby boomers that they need to get a degree to get a job. I've been offered an entry level construction job up in Chicago that is paying $15 p/h. If I get a truck and move, I'll take that job, because I'd rather earn $100,000 p/a as a labourer than go $40,000 in the hole.

In theory, of course public schools could but they won't. It'll take something huge to change something so ingrained into American society.

No one I know. I just find it hard to imagine an ardent anti-white BLM supporter being pleased about their favourite afrocentric rap album being created behind the scenes by a white nerd. 

[Spike 12,049]

2 minutes ago, kmk108 said:

Bannon is considered a white supremacist because he supports the alt-right movement. But I agree that doesn't make him a white supremacist. People on all sides are going to these buzz words way too fast these days and all it's doing is creating further divide and sensationalism. The other forum I frequent has had to ban politics because the moderators can't be bothered to monitor all of the threads in order to keep them peaceful. It's one of the things that I like about this thread. We can talk about all of this without getting in pissing matches. That's what our public discourse is lacking. Not just in America, but around the world.

Exactly! But he doesn't really support the alt-right. He just panders to them, because he know that is an audience without a news network. It's a huge untapped oil well! From a social perspective, it is horrible to spurt that sort of nonsense but from a purely business perspective it is ingenious.

Look at what turning Andrew Breitbart's (a Jew and a classical conservative, as in the economic sense) vision into a vitriolic Alt-Right and pro-Trump source has got him. He know has the president's ear and has made huge amounts of money. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,837]

7 minutes ago, Iggy Doonican said:

This is Trump's mum her hairstyle is more outlandish then her bellend of a son's. In the name of sanity what is that?. This won't mean a thing to our overseas members but it looks like a giant Quaver.

 

 

Is she curling out a Richard the Third ?

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

Just now, Fulham Broadway said:

Is she curling out a Richard the Third ?

Looks like Mary Berry's reaction when she heard  bake off was going to Channel 4.

[kmk108 1,186]

If you move out to Chicago, hit up AJ Hudsons on matchdays I haven't gotten out since I've moved, but I need to get there.

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

You don't need to go to school to be prepared for adult life. In the past that was what summer jobs were for. A teenager will learn more about the world flipping hamburgers for shit money than they would getting high by using their parent's allowance. Now they are lazy and won't do it because illegals do it for dirt money. Hard to convince a teenager to learn responsibility and hard work when they are earning $2 p/h. Hell, it's gotten to the point where blacks can't even get work in SoCal because speaking Spanish is a prerequisite for customer service. University isn't for everyone, some people are stupid and that's okay. They can learn a trade, be a welder or plumber, but no one wants to do that because they have been sold an idea by the baby boomers that they need to get a degree to get a job. I've been offered an entry level construction job up in Chicago that is paying $15 p/h. If I get a truck and move, I'll take that job, because I'd rather earn $100,000 p/a as a labourer than go $40,000 in the hole.

.Most of the people I know had to work while in college, so in essence, they're doing both.

But a teenager wouldn't learn as much about accounting flipping burgers as they would by taking classes on it. The emphasis lately has been on the service because labor can be had for so cheap. Service jobs put a lot of emphasis on having a bachelors degree. It's all interrelated. If employers didn't put so much emphasis on having a bachelors degree, there wouldn't be such an emphasis on getting one in the first place.

Quote

In theory, of course public schools could but they won't. It'll take something huge to change something so ingrained into American society.

And that is why we need a change in the system. Yet no one has been able to wade through all the political and social BS that prevent change from happening.

Quote

No one I know. I just find it hard to imagine an ardent anti-white BLM supporter being pleased about their favourite afrocentric rap album being created behind the scenes by a white nerd. 

Eminem, Beastie Boys, Yelawolf, MGK, Mac Miller, G-Eazy, Action Bronson, Aesop Rock are all white rappers.

One of the big producers, Harry Fraud, is one of those skinny white dudes. There's also The Alchemist. There's probably more, but those are the two I know off the top of my head.

Not all BLM supporters are anti-white, but I'm sure there are some that fall into that. I doubt that that's the majority.

[Peace. 4,352]

On 30/01/2017 at 3:38 PM, kmk108 said:

Thank you for a well thought out reply after I called you a prick 

You're more knowledgeable of the ins and outs of ISIS in these countries. But I'm still convinced this was done in an effort to start the war on Islam. Rudy Giuliani himself said Trump wanted a way to legally ban MUSLIMS (not people from countries that could pose a danger) but he wanted to legally ban MUSLIMS. When he was advised that this is religious bigotry, they shifted to "danger".

 

    You are welcome, after all it was (kind of) deserved as I was not very nice to you in my first reply !

 

****

    In regards to our debate, you know, it is always very difficult to fully understand what is going on behind the scene because there are a lot of actors who do not necessarily want to achieve the same thing — and each actor does not necessarily have only an unique aim.

    Just to add a little bit more of content to what I "explained" in my previous post, on the 29/01 Dahnald Trump has had a call with Abu Dhabi crown prince and king Salman of Saudi Arabia. One of the topic of their discussion(s) was the fight against terrorism and the desire to create "safe zones" in the region for refugees. And on the 30/01, the vice president received king Abdallah II of Jordan and the fight against terrorism was part of the discussions.

    Now, it is very difficult for us to imagine who could he have called in Syria for instance — Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi ? Do you figure what could be the content of the conversation ? "Hello Abu Bakr, what's up ?" "Salam aleykoum Dahnald, labass ?" "Yeah fantastic, but it would be tremendous if you told your guys to calm down a little with the beheadings and the captagone" "Yeah inch'Allah.." !! On a serious note, it is the same problem with any country — or rather territory — which is controlled by a terrorist organisation(s) : Yemen, Somalia, Sudan (?), mountains on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, etc..

    Well, of course it might have been merely a posture — I do not know since I was not on the other end of the line. Nevertheless, I guess it exemplifies what I was talking about : while you have the possibility to have diplomatic relations with any muslim countries, you have no possibility to negociate and collaborate with (islamic) "authorities" that controls (partially or not) the countries which are sanctionned by the ban ; and even worse, you have absolutely no control whatsoever of what is coming out of this countries which is very problematic, isn't it.

    Then we should not forget that this is a whole new government and that Trump is thoroughly reshaping the U.S. administration. For instance he has put back the C.I.A. to their rightful place (i.e. as an institution that gathers intel and not an institution that kills people across the world, as it has been used under Obama and before him) and expelled them from the N.S.C. and the H.S.C. (at least to my understanding). Such changes inexorably implies loose spaces and moments of vulnerability. It is thus not surprising that for a certain amount of time the country adopts a defensive position.

    Finally, we should not forget that during his second mandat (probably the first too, but I did not check) Obama declared a « National Emergency with respect to » a lot of countries, and amongst them were the seven countries upon which Trump declared a ban. And guess what ? Obama extended those « National Emergency » before leaving office (on the 13th of January). I presume that we will both agree that « National Emergency » means what it does mean — and it is not as if the threat was a fantasy work, the chaos is real in these countries just as is the threat in our countries (my neighbors did not die the 13 november by "magic »). Furthermore the situation is stalling and the more time passes by, the more the threat in our countries becomes intense… All in all, given the situation, the ban is just a logical continuation of the « National Emergency ».

 

****

    Then allow me to expand on Saudi Arabia. As people usually make the mistake with any country, they consider Saudi Arabia as a monolith. It is far from being the case. Their is the political power (the royal family), the economical power and the religious power. If at times these three powers have the same interests, some other times, they do not. Moreover even within these powers their is different agenda.

    Did the country as a whole was backing the rise of the IS ? Most probably. Are some Saudis still giving money to IS ? Certainly. But let’s not forget that the IS is totally out of control and there can be only one muslim kingdom (or khilafah) in the world — meaning that the IS is at war with the Saudis and the wannabe sultan Erdogan (even if it is more complicated than what my phrasing suggests).

    The Saudi kingdom has problems with the IS but it has also problems with Al-Qā’Idah because a lot of member of this organisation consider that the royal family is pally with the « American dogs ». And in late 2000s, if I recall correctly, there has been terrorist attacks on Saudi’s soil made by AQ.

    So you see, the situation is not an absolute white nor an absolute black. If there are Saudi backing the IS and AQ, their are also some others that have a huge interest to soften these threats.

 

****

    Then, is Trump trying to start the war on islam ? It will be a very, very difficult thing to accomplish because we are already at war with islam. Rather, islam is at war with western societies — actually, it has always been at war with us. By the way, I am not talking about sub-saharian islam which is most of cases is a very different thing.

So no, he will not declare any war on islam !

Edited February 2, 2017 by Peace.

[kmk108 1,186]

Different US-based topic:

Quote

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-destroy-johnson-amendment-religious-freedom-separation-church-state-a7559421.html

Donald Trump vows to 'totally destroy' Johnson Amendment that stops churches funding political parties

My guess is that he's framed this in such a way to get support from religious people, but this opens up the door for non-profits to donate to political parties and campaigns tax free.

Got this from a reddit post

Quote

Right now if a 501(c)(3) non-profit donates to a political campaign then IRS regulations would mandate the removal of their tax exempt status. So, if this goes through. You could create a non-profit, donate money into it tax free, and then have the non-profit donate that money to a political campaign. He's trying to remove the law that closed a loophole to donate unlimited amounts of tax exempt money (donations) into political parties under the guise of standing up for religious freedom.

"draining the swamp" 

[Spike 12,049]

3 minutes ago, kmk108 said:

If you move out to Chicago, hit up AJ Hudsons on matchdays I haven't gotten out since I've moved, but I need to get there.

.Most of the people I know had to work while in college, so in essence, they're doing both.

But a teenager wouldn't learn as much about accounting flipping burgers as they would by taking classes on it. The emphasis lately has been on the service because labor can be had for so cheap. Service jobs put a lot of emphasis on having a bachelors degree. It's all interrelated. If employers didn't put so much emphasis on having a bachelors degree, there wouldn't be such an emphasis on getting one in the first place.

And that is why we need a change in the system. Yet no one has been able to wade through all the political and social BS that prevent change from happening.

Eminem, Beastie Boys, Yelawolf, MGK, Mac Miller, G-Eazy, Action Bronson, Aesop Rock are all white rappers.

One of the big producers, Harry Fraud, is one of those skinny white dudes. There's also The Alchemist. There's probably more, but those are the two I know off the top of my head.

Not all BLM supporters are anti-white, but I'm sure there are some that fall into that. I doubt that that's the majority.

Yes, the won't learn accounting or anything that is more esoteric. However, it is a good place to start. To learn the value of a dollar, to learn the value of your time, to know that you have to step up to be beyond the rest of the pack, to learn that you will be taxed, and learn the people will walk on all over others. It these basic foundations that people need to learn in their formative years to help them understand where they can go and what they can achieve in the world. It's useless having a degree in political science if you are naive with real world experience.

I feel the problem is a Gordian knot of issues. The more people that get degrees the less valuable they become, but to get a degree one needs to have money, but to get money they need a degree and then when it's all said and done the job now requires four years of experience.

That's not really the point, I was more specifically talking about Public Enemy, a very black-pride rap group. It's just a funny thought knowing the those guys were backed by a white nerd. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it's just that some people would be surprised is all, it was more a joke than anything.

True but you cannot deny that there is a very strong anti-white and anti-authority core to BLM. When one of the leaders calls 'white peepo' a genetic defect of blacks, you know something is up. Check out the rhetoric being spewed by Yusra Khogali. Nasty stuff.

[Spike 12,049]

On a side note a girl that attended the UC Berkley Milo Yiannoplous extravaganza was pepper-sprayed to the face because she was wearing at a glance a 'MAGA' hat. It actually said 'Make America Bitcoin Again'.

People are nuts! These college students have dived off the deep-end.

[kmk108 1,186]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

On a side note a girl that attended the UC Berkley Milo Yiannoplous extravaganza was pepper-sprayed to the face because she was wearing at a glance a 'MAGA' hat. It actually said 'Make America Bitcoin Again'.

People are nuts! These college students have dived off the deep-end.

All while this was happening

I saw this posted on Reddit. A bunch of swat/police/security hanging out inside the student union while things got out of hand outside. Apparently Berkeley's mayor told them to stand down.

[Peace. 4,352]

55 minutes ago, Spike said:

Yes, I did briefly. The educators are robots that punch out the same lecture five times a day and have perfected the facade of 'caring educator'.

Well, you probably know more than me as you are in the U.S., yet from what I see on the internet and in France, I would rather say that those teacher are not faking it. Actually, they are loving it — they love the mental power they have over their students.

Imagine just an instant the feeling that one can feel when hordes of young people are buying everything you can talk about ; or when a light sparks up in their eyes when you tell them who is behind all atrocities in this world and they are feeling so gratefull to you ; or when you can indoctrinate them to further your own personal agenda, which give you a nice little army of zealots ; etc... — this "empowerment" must be thrilling ! And how could you not care for those you give you the impression to be important ? (this last remark is at a lesser extent true for every one of us).

[kmk108 1,186]

10 minutes ago, Spike said:

Yes, the won't learn accounting or anything that is more esoteric. However, it is a good place to start. To learn the value of a dollar, to learn the value of your time, to know that you have to step up to be beyond the rest of the pack, to learn that you will be taxed, and learn the people will walk on all over others. It these basic foundations that people need to learn in their formative years to help them understand where they can go and what they can achieve in the world. It's useless having a degree in political science if you are naive with real world experience.

I feel the problem is a Gordian knot of issues. The more people that get degrees the less valuable they become, but to get a degree one needs to have money, but to get money they need a degree and then when it's all said and done the job now requires four years of experience.

No doubt that education has to be supplemented with real world experience. I haven't worked much in the past and it's come back to bite me in the ass on multiple occasions.

Quote

That's not really the point, I was more specifically talking about Public Enemy, a very black-pride rap group. It's just a funny thought knowing the those guys were backed by a white nerd. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it's just that some people would be surprised is all, it was more a joke than anything.

True but you cannot deny that there is a very strong anti-white and anti-authority core to BLM. When one of the leaders calls 'white peepo' a genetic defect of blacks, you know something is up. Check out the rhetoric being spewed by Yusra Khogali. Nasty stuff.

Gotcha 

[kmk108 1,186]

44 minutes ago, Peace. said:

 

    You are welcome, after all it was (kind of) deserved as I was not very nice to you in my first reply !

 

****

    In regards to our debate, you know, it is always very difficult to fully understand what is going on behind the scene because there are a lot of actors who do not necessarily want to achieve the same thing — and each actor does not necessarily have only an unique aim.

    Just to add a little bit more of content to what I "explained" in my previous post, on the 29/01 Dahnald Trump has had a call with Abu Dhabi crown prince and king Salman of Saudi Arabia. One of the topic of their discussion(s) was the fight against terrorism and the desire to create "safe zones" in the region for refugees. And on the 30/01, the vice president received king Abdallah II of Jordan and the fight against terrorism was part of the discussions.

    Now, it is very difficult for us to imagine who could he have called in Syria for instance — Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi ? Do you figure what could be the content of the conversation ? "Hello Abu Bakr, what's up ?" "Salam aleykoum Dahnald, labass ?" "Yeah fantastic, but it would be tremendous if you told your guys to calm down a little with the beheadings and the captagone" "Yeah inch'Allah.." !! On a serious note, it is the same problem with any country — or rather territory — which is controlled by a terrorist organisation(s) : Yemen, Somalia, Sudan (?), mountains on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, etc..

    Well, of course it might have been merely a posture — I do not know since I was not on the other end of the line. Nevertheless, I guess it exemplifies what I was talking about : while you have the possibility to have diplomatic relations with any muslim countries, you have no possibility to negociate and collaborate with (islamic) "authorities" that controls (partially or not) the countries which are sanctionned by the ban ; and even worse, you have absolutely no control whatsoever of what is coming out of this countries which is very problematic, isn't it.

    Then we should not forget that this is a whole new government and that Trump is thoroughly reshaping the U.S. administration. For instance he has put back the C.I.A. to their rightful place (i.e. as an institution that gathers intel and not an institution that kills people across the world, as it has been used under Obama and before him) and expelled them from the N.S.C. and the H.S.C. (at least to my understanding). Such changes inexorably implies loose spaces and moments of vulnerability. It is thus not surprising that for a certain amount of time the country adopts a defensive position.

    Finally, we should not forget that during his second mandat (probably the first too, but I did not check) Obama declared a « National Emergency with respect to » a lot of countries, and amongst them were the seven countries upon which Trump declared a ban. And guess what ? Obama extended those « National Emergency » before leaving office (on the 13th of January). I presume that we will both agree that « National Emergency » means what it does mean — and it is not as if the threat was a fantasy work, the chaos is real in these countries just as is the threat in our countries (my neighbors did not die the 13 november by "magic »). Furthermore the situation is stalling and the more time passes by, the more the threat in our countries becomes intense… All in all, given the situation, the ban is just a logical continuation of the « National Emergency ».

 

****

    Then allow me to expand on Saudi Arabia. As people usually make the mistake with any country, they consider Saudi Arabia as a monolith. It is far from being the case. Their is the political power (the royal family), the economical power and the religious power. If at times these three powers have the same interests, some other times, they do not. Moreover even within these powers their is different agenda.

    Did the country as a whole was backing the rise of the IS ? Most probably. Are some Saudis still giving money to IS ? Certainly. But let’s not forget that the IS is totally out of control and there can be only one muslim kingdom (or khilafah) in the world — meaning that the IS is at war with the Saudis and the wannabe sultan Erdogan (even if it is more complicated than what my phrasing suggests).

    The Saudi kingdom has problems with the IS but it has also problems with Al-Qā’Idah because a lot of member of this organisation consider that the royal family is pally with the « American dogs ». And in late 2000s, if I recall correctly, there has been terrorist attacks on Saudi’s soil made by AQ.

    So you see, the situation is not an absolute white nor an absolute black. If there are Saudi backing the IS and AQ, their are also some others that have a huge interest to soften these threats.

 

****

    Then, is Trump trying to start the war on islam ? It will be a very, very difficult thing to accomplish because we are already at war with islam. Rather, islam is at war with western societies — actually, it has always been at war with us. By the way, I am not talking about sub-saharian islam which is most of cases is a very different thing.

So no, he will not declare any war on islam !

Great points in your last few posts on this.

The trouble I have is getting past his anti-Muslim rhetoric. Time will tell how far this goes. We'll see if the EO is expanded or cut back soon.

We may be "at war with Islam" or (preferably to me) Radical Islamists, but that doesn't mean we need to demonize Muslims. White people don't want to be associated with Dylan Roof or the other white terrorists.