The European Leagues & Competitions Thread V2

[Strike 7,217]

Carlo never let a CL final slip after Istanbul

[Strike 7,217]

5 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Winning titles in all top 5 leagues. 

Number one without debate. 

Not number 1 for me. He doesn't have the influence on the game as someone like Guardiola does. Look at Guardiola's students managing Arsenal, Chelsea, Bayern and Leverkusen. He's changed the modern game more than Ancelotti imo as successful as he has been in winning trophies. 

[Reddish-Blue 2,347]

7 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Winning titles in all top 5 leagues. 

Number one without debate. 

Number one for winning trophies, absolutely. 

Number one without debate?    Feel like Mourinho should be in that debate...he was winning like a mad man in his younger days. 

[YorkshireBlue 3,122]

41 minutes ago, Reddish-Blue said:

Number one for winning trophies, absolutely. 

Number one without debate?    Feel like Mourinho should be in that debate...he was winning like a mad man in his younger days. 

Mourinho shouldn't be anywhere near the debate, hasn't changed with the times at all.

Edited June 2 by YorkshireBlue

[Fulham Broadway 16,858]

We got a £5m bonus from Eden Hazard's £130m move to Real Madrid' following their' latest Champions League triumph... months after Hazards retirement  😉

[Gundalf 804]

1 hour ago, Fulham Broadway said:

We got a £5m bonus from Eden Hazard's £130m move to Real Madrid' following their' latest Champions League triumph... months after Hazards retirement  😉

Best deal in the history of this club. 

[Reddish-Blue 2,347]

23 hours ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Mourinho shouldn't be anywhere near the debate, hasn't changed with the times at all.

Still led Roma to the Conference League title in 22 and then backed it up with getting them to the Europa League final the following year. 

He might be stubborn and stuck to his ways but that's how Mourinho operates and in most places it gets results (other than Spurs who are just cursed). 

[YorkshireBlue 3,122]

31 minutes ago, Reddish-Blue said:

Still led Roma to the Conference League title in 22 and then backed it up with getting them to the Europa League final the following year. 

He might be stubborn and stuck to his ways but that's how Mourinho operates and in most places it gets results (other than Spurs who are just cursed). 

And look where he is at now

[Vesper 28,838]

23 hours ago, YorkshireBlue said:

And look where he is at now

[Vesper 28,838]

Explained: The fall of Vitesse Arnhem, ‘Abramovich’s Chelsea B’ now stripped of their licence

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5589210/2024/06/25/vitesse-arnhem-abramovich-Chelsea-licence/

Vitesse Arnhem have been in turmoil.

Investigations into their previous owners plunged the Dutch side’s future into uncertainty and, while the club managed to overcome significant hurdles over recent weeks, what happens next remains unclear.

The Athletic has explored how the Netherlands’ second-oldest club nearly ceased to exist, suffered an 18-point deduction, were relegated from the Eredivisie for the first time in 35 years and have now had their professional licence revoked, effectively blocking them from domestic competition next season.

---

How did we get here?

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022, was essentially the starting point for all of this.

The European Union (EU) imposed sanctions on Russia in response to the invasion. The aim of these, according to the government of the Netherlands, was to:

• make it difficult for Russia to finance the invasion of Ukraine;
• show the individuals responsible (such as the Russian political elite) that the invasion of Ukraine has economic and political consequences.

Vitesse had been owned by Russian oligarch Valeriy Oyf since 2018. Following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Oyf, similar to Roman Abramovich at Chelsea, expressed his intention to sell the club. Unlike Abramovich, Oyf was reportedly not on any sanctions list.

In March 2022, Oyf announced that his majority shares in Vitesse were up for sale “in the interests of the club”. He later proposed transferring his shares, held under Performance Management Holding BV (PMH), to Vitesse’s paid football foundation. He also claimed he would waive the club’s debt.

By September 2022, it appeared that Vitesse had found a buyer. The club confirmed that the Common Group, a New York-based investment firm, was set to become the new majority shareholder, pending approval from the licensing committee of the Dutch Football Association (KNVB). The Netherlands’ professional football licensing system requires any potential shareholder acquiring at least 25 per cent of a club’s shares to be approved.

The Common Group, led by founder and CEO Coley Parry, also has investments in League One club Leyton Orient and Belgian side Patro Eisden Maasmechelen. However, before Vitesse made the request for the transfer of Oyf’s shares to the Common Group in April 2023, allegations emerged surrounding the club’s past finances.

The links with Chelsea: What was alleged?

A report from the Guardian and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism in March 2023 claimed that Abramovich had financed a previous takeover and subsequent operations of Vitesse for several years. The purported secret funding, totalling at least €117million (£102.8m), was revealed through leaked documents known as the Oligarch files, originating from the Cyprus-based offshore service provider MeritServus.

Suspicions arose during the tenure of the former Georgian footballer Merab Jordania, who led a takeover of Vitesse in 2010. Although Jordania denied Abramovich’s involvement, the Dutch side were once branded ‘Chelsea B’ after dozens of the Premier League side’s players were sent on loan there between 2010 and 2021, including Mason Mount, Dominic Solanke, Armando Broja and Nemanja Matic.

Players who joined Vitesse from Chelsea

Player	Season joined
Slobodan Rajkovic	2010-11
Nemanja Matic	2010-11
Matej Delac	2010-11
Patrick van Aanholt	2011-12
Tomas Kalas	2011-12
Ulises Davila	2011-12
Gael Kakuta	2012-13
Bertrand Traore	2013-14
Cristian Cuevas	2013-14
Christian Atsu	2013-14
Sam Hutchinson	2013-14
Lucas Piazon	2013-14
Wallace Oliveira	2014-15
Josh McEachran	2014-15
Nathan	2015-16
Dominic Solanke	2015-16
Danilo Pantic	2015-16
Izzy Brown	2015-16
Lewis Baker	2015-16
Matt Miazga	2016-17
Mukhtar Ali	2016-17
Mason Mount	2017-18
Fankaty Dabo	2017-18
Charlie Colkett	2017-18
Charly Musonda	2018-19
Eduardo	2018-19
Jake Clarke-Salter	2018-19
Jamal Blackman	2019-20
Armando Broja	2020-21

The funding scheme allegedly involved a complex network of offshore entities, with Abramovich’s companies — Ovington Worldwide and Wotton Overseas — playing pivotal roles. These entities purportedly facilitated loans to Vitesse through intermediaries linked to Alexander Chigirinsky, a Russian businessman who took over the club after Jordania’s departure in 2013.

Marindale Trading, a company owned by Chigirinsky, was allegedly involved in funding Vitesse’s takeover, with loans routed through offshore entities. The documents reportedly suggested that Abramovich’s funds originated from Ovington Worldwide and were funnelled through Chigirinsky-linked companies to Vitesse.

Chigirinsky remained in charge of Vitesse until May 2018 when he sold the club to Oyf.

Chigirinsky, MeritServus and Abramovich did not comment in response to the article at the time.

 

Jordania, meanwhile, claimed he was friends with Abramovich and Chigirinsky — and after his claim that they had lent him money for Vitesse when needed, suspicions persisted. Allegations he made in April 2014 also appeared to blame Chelsea for preventing Vitesse from achieving certain sporting objectives.

As a result of the Guardian’s report, the Dutch Ministry of Economic Affairs (EZK) requested information from Vitesse in June 2023 as part of its investigation into the club’s continued Russian ownership. The EZK aimed to ensure that Vitesse was complying with EU sanctions against Russia.

The Dutch government is responsible for ensuring that all companies within the country, including football clubs, adhere to these sanctions. It is up to the companies themselves to comply with the rules by carefully examining their financial transactions and business relationships to avoid violations. This involves thoroughly investigating the owners and control structures of their business partners, including scrutinising the backgrounds of shareholders and banks involved in their transactions.

The KNVB launched two of its own investigations in July 2023 with research agency Integis — one looking into the Common Group and the other assessing the previous links between Vitesse and Abramovich.

GO DEEPER

Vitesse Arnhem - the proud Dutch club shaking off that 'Chelsea B' tag

What was the response to the Common Group?

After seven months of research, the Common Group suffered a blow as the KNVB announced it had rejected Vitesse’s request in February 2024, effectively refusing them permission to be taken over by Parry’s firm. The committee cited a lack of evidence regarding the Common Group’s equity, investors, and the origin of their funds. The club was also fined €100,000 (£85,000) for allegedly failing to disclose critical financial information.

Parry said at the time that “both the licensing committee and Integis have rejected our offer to talk to various specialists involved”. The Common Group then held a press conference to confirm that they would appeal against the decision.

Vitesse also claimed that they were under pressure from their house bank, ING. According to the club, they had been issued an ultimatum with ING making it clear that, with the club’s shares still in Oyf’s name, they could no longer do business with companies owned by Russian shareholders. However, a judge ruled that ING must keep Vitesse’s account open while the legal proceedings were ongoing.

In a statement on February 16, the former Vitesse interim general manager Peter Rovers explained the issues: Oyf remaining as the major shareholder caused banking problems with ING and therefore auditing issues with their club accounts, and there remained a financial shortfall despite a better balancing of costs and income.

To resolve the problems with the bank and club accounts, Rovers said an alternative plan had been arranged following talks with stakeholders, Vitesse, and various supporter groups. This involved transferring the club’s shares to the ‘Vitesse Forever’ foundation, which would free them from Russian owners.

However, this step needed approval from the KNVB licensing committee and could only happen once their investigation into the club’s past ties had been concluded.

What happened next?

In April, Vitesse were deducted 18 points by the KNVB licensing committee, leading to the club’s relegation from the Eredivisie. This punishment was because of Vitesse’s “repeated failure” to meet licensing regulations over an extended period.

A statement from the KNVB said: “The level of the sanction is based on the exceptional seriousness and extent of the breaches of the licence system.”

They added that Vitesse had provided incorrect information “relevant to the forensic investigation” into potential sanctions breaches, and also withheld information “important to the assessment of Vitesse’s continuity”.

The KNVB’s licensing committee said there were “indications” suggesting Abramovich had past or present control over Vitesse, along with “risks” of sanctions violations. It concluded it was “important to await the ministry’s investigation”.

Vitesse had the option to appeal the verdict but, in a statement, they said that they would not do so because the club wanted to focus on “retaining its licence”. They concluded that the points deduction was “inevitable”, noting that they had incorrectly filed half-yearly financial figures and weren’t able to demonstrate that they did not have ties to Abramovich.

How close were Vitesse to ceasing to exist?

Times looked desperate for the club at the beginning of May.

On May 3, it was confirmed that Vitesse had launched a crowdfunding campaign to raise funds to retain their licence and stay in the professional leagues. Donations came from current and former players, including ex-Swansea City and Manchester City striker Wilfried Bony, former Chelsea players Matt Miazga (the USMNT defender) and Lewis Baker, as well as supporters. More than €1.9million (£1.6m; $2m) was raised until the campaign shut on May 18.

Captain Marco van Ginkel, another former Chelsea player, said: “It is really bizarre how Vitesse is living at the moment. Donations come in from every nook and cranny. Of course, we as a group cannot lag behind. That is why we have all decided today to make a salary sacrifice to the club.”

But there was more bad news to endure on May 7. The KNVB confirmed to The Athletic that the licensing committee had rejected the Common Group’s appeal regarding the transferral of Oyf’s majority shares in Vitesse to the firm. This effectively confirmed their takeover could not proceed.

Parry had told The Athletic in April that him agreeing a deal with Oyf was enough for him to be considered suspicious by the licensing committee. However, he also believes the licensing committee does not like multi-club investors and the row with him became personal. In response, the KNVB referred The Athletic to its February statement, which indicated that it had not been determined whether the Common Group had any equity, and that it remained unclear who the investors would be.

Given a deadline of May 17 had been imposed by the KNVB, the only option on the table for Vitesse was to transfer the majority shares to the Vitesse Forever foundation, as declared on February 16.

So things were looking up?

Vitesse appeared stuck in limbo. Then, on May 16, the KNVB confirmed it had approved Vitesse’s plan to transfer shares temporarily to Vitesse Forever. This decision postponed the potential revoking of Vitesse’s licence, allowing the club more time to seek approval from the EZK.

Vitesse said in a statement that there was “constructive contact with ING Bank and accountants, and the shares of PMH (Oyf) appear to be transferred as soon as possible to the independent Vitesse Forever foundation”.

On the same day, it was announced that two lawyers had been appointed to the supervisory board of Vitesse, replacing two incumbents. This was a key step in demonstrating Vitesse were breaking away from their previous ownership structure.

On May 17, Vitesse said that following a response from the EZK, the club could transfer Oyf’s shares to the foundation. It was confirmed to The Athletic that the investigation into the club had been completed. The shares were officially transferred to the foundation on May 18.

On May 30, Vitesse announced they received confirmation from the licensing committee of satisfactory progress towards meeting the requirements. They were granted an extension to June 17. Vitesse, however, still had to find funding to balance their books.

The club appointed John Jaakke, Pieter Colijn and Erik Mulder as three independent directors to sit on the new foundation — their task was to “focus on the temporary management and sale of the shares”.

They essentially needed to present a balanced budget by that June 17 deadline — a challenging task given their relegation. General manager Edwin Reijntjes explained in a statement that expected income will drop from €19million to €11m, mainly because of the loss of television revenue from not playing in the Eredivisie.

They brought down outgoings by €10m, but further cuts would harm the club’s ambitions and sustainability, and the fixed costs include housing and staff salaries, which limit the ability for further reductions.

To bridge the budget gap, Vitesse were seeking external financing, focusing on regional support. They planned to sell 20 per cent of the shares to local entrepreneurs and supporters, aiming to raise at least €5million. Reijntjes called on businesses “to make their contribution” after praising fans following their crowdfunding campaign, saying they had “done their job”.

On June 7, they initiated plans to offer 20 per cent of shares to regional investors through the establishment of the ‘Sterkhouders Vitesse Arnhem’ (STAK) foundation, aiming to raise €5m. But the club was still facing the June 17 deadline.

What was the issue?

Until June 12, Vitesse entertained offers from four interested parties for the club’s shares. However, negotiations with a preferred buyer fell through, so Vitesse continued looking for alternative funding options.

Reijntjes said: “All options are on the table. We are in discussions with an interested Dutch party and we are also looking into whether we can raise funds independently in exchange for collateral. All help is welcome!”

Vitesse said on June 20 that “in the unlikely event” the KNVB licensing committee intends to revoke their license due to incomplete documentation and financial uncertainties, they would immediately appeal this decision.

However, investors were not found in time. It was confirmed this week that Vitesse had their professional licence revoked by the KNVB, effectively barring the club from competing in the 2024-25 season.

The KNVB stated that Vitesse failed to meet critical financial and regulatory requirements, including providing a balanced budget, maintaining a bank account, and securing an auditing accountant.

The KNVB’s independent licensing committee communicated this decision to Vitesse on Monday, citing the club’s inability to comply despite several extensions. They added that “a longer postponement is impossible due to the approaching start of the new football season”.

So is all hope lost?

Not yet.

Reijntjes acknowledged that while the decision to revoke the licence was expected due to the incomplete documentation provided, the club remains confident in its appeal process.

Vitesse also named their preferred buyer, entrepreneur Guus Franke, and confirmed that there has been an outline agreement with him and Parry regarding Vitesse’s debt to the Common Group. This agreement is seen as a crucial step in resolving financial issues.

“With Guus Franke, we have found a fantastic entrepreneur from Gelderland, with sympathy for the club, who wants to solve the past for us,” Reijntjes said. “This is a tentative joy — from today our appeal process starts and we need to seek approval for the continuation from the licensing board.

“Hopefully, we will then receive good news from the licensing and appeals committee within a few weeks and we can finally move on!”

The appeals process is expected to take place in two weeks. If the club does not win the case, they can take it to court.

What else?

There were also further allegations about the club’s past ties.

The Guardian and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism alleged on May 10 that leaked documents suggested Oyf funded the club with loans from Abramovich.

New documents allegedly suggested that Abramovich was the primary source of nearly $200m used by Oyf to fund Matteson Overseas Ltd, an offshore company. These funds were purportedly invested in ventures tied to Abramovich’s asset management company, Millhouse Capital, and were used to support Vitesse.

Oyf, a long-time associate of Abramovich and a former senior executive at his oil company, Sibneft, has previously denied that Abramovich still has financial ties to Vitesse. Oyf and Abramovich did not return the Guardian’s requests for comment.

Although the EZK’s investigation into Vitesse has concluded, The Athletic has learned that investigative bodies, such as the Dutch tax investigation department (Fiscal Information and Investigation Service), could still examine possible sanctions violations by Vitesse. Both Vitesse and the Fiscal Information and Investigation Service did not respond to requests for comment.

[cosmicway 1,323]

What is this ?
HJK Helsinki v. Panevezys FK champions league qualifier.
Lithuanian Panevezys beat Helsinki by 3-0 in the firt round.
But now the price for Helsinki to win in 1.20 !
Starts in 12 minutes.

Edited July 16 by cosmicway

[cosmicway 1,323]

1-1 draw.
I wanted to make you rich, you don't listen.
Don't know why the bookies fell asleep.

[Fulham Broadway 16,858]

11 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

1-1 draw.
I wanted to make you rich, you don't listen.
Don't know why the bookies fell asleep.

Most bookies are commies 

[cosmicway 1,323]

3 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Most bookies are commies 

Used to.
There was a guy in Soho doing the three card trick.
Salute the king, salute the queen and bow your back to the keiserine was his poem as he shuffled the cards.
Then a policeman was seen approaching.
Kicks the cardboard box so it becomes a flat piece of cardoard on the road and the gang runs away.
When the policeman entered the street he could see nothing.
They must have been commies.
Later they acquired Rolls Royces, signed agreements in the Hilton hotel, now they run the country.

[Fulham Broadway 16,858]

9 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

Used to.
There was a guy in Soho doing the three card trick.
Salute the king, salute the queen and bow your back to the keiserine was his poem as he shuffled the cards.
Then a policeman was seen approaching.
Kicks the cardboard box so it becomes a flat piece of cardoard on the road and the gang runs away.
When the policeman entered the street he could see nothing.
They must have been commies.
Later they acquired Rolls Royces, signed agreements in the Hilton hotel, now they run the country.

Aint that the truth

[cosmicway 1,323]

2  hours from now.
FC 03 Differdange (Lux) - Ki Klaksvik

Will the heroic Faroe islands strike again ?
First round was 2-0 to Klaaksvik.
5.50 for the win.

[NikkiCFC 7,953]

20 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

2  hours from now.
FC 03 Differdange (Lux) - Ki Klaksvik

Will the heroic Faroe islands strike again ?
First round was 2-0 to Klaaksvik.
5.50 for the win.

You understand they will progress with any loss by one goal or draw? Why should they push for a win?

[cosmicway 1,323]

5 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

You understand they will progress with any loss by one goal or draw? Why should they push for a win?

I don't see your reasoning.
Under certain odd conditions maybe - remember when you allowed the Scots to equalize in 1974 ;