The Champions and us

[Hysteria 159]

I was talking with my boyfriend about some players (Xavi, Iniesta etc) and the discussion about the lucky and opportunist players came out.

Dont you think that we always needed players like this? Like Iniesta, he appeard in two important moments with Barcelona en Spain. Okay, im totally agree that Xavi and Messi carried Barcelona to the finals and stuff, and we have players that are very regular with their game (well maybe not now). But, we have any players like Iniesta for example? People that have i dont know, lucky to find out opportunies like that. (I admit Barcelona win the last champions because they were totally awesome, but my point is about cases like the Iniesta goal in the last minute, Liverpool comeback in 2005, Man utd with their two goals in 89+ etc etc).

For me, winning the league is the price for the most regular team in the season, but in the champions (or any competitions with eliminatories) you need some luck too.

So, thats my point, i think that maybe this is the factor that we lacked to win the champions league.

[Term-X 7,891]

If the game was run by robots, we would have competed in at least 3 champions league finals by now.

[Kieran. 6,317]

It's widely acknowledged that luck is a major factor in winning the Champions League.

[Hysteria 159]

It's widely acknowledged that luck is a major factor in winning the Champions League.

Yeah I know, my point its mainly about "luckiest" players like Iniesta, do you consider that we have any player like this? Or basically its just luck in general?

[zolayes 14,489]

England are usually unlucky ,,,BECAUSE they are crap ,,,but were Very lucky in 1966.

A famous golfer once said " The more I practice the luckier I get"

[SeB 1,281]

It's not completely on topic but I think that the main thing that we lack compared to Manure (by example, or Barcelona with Seydou Keita) is utility players such as John O'Shea or Wes Brown... I though Mancienne could be our, some may say that he is awful at HSV but it's hardly the same environnement that the one he would have find at Chelsea.

KieranVogel is right, considering that the best teams in Europe challenge for the same trophy ; from the point they are endowed with a good momentum, confidence, tactical and technical superiority... they all have to be decided. And very often it's the luck or the extra uncontrollable thing that makes the difference.

We sometimes see moments in games where we feel like if time has stopped and that there is a special rythm of the match... Players evoke it sometimes. And to be honest if it could be controlled, it would be well known or sold expensive !

[SeB 1,281]

Nobody did spoke about Kalou, I don't know how long it will take...

Anyway it would not be completely off topic, how he manages to be at the right place at the right time is sometimes that I don't know if it's luck or smartness...

[Hysteria 159]

It's not completely on topic but I think that the main thing that we lack compared to Manure (by example, or Barcelona with Seydou Keita) is utility players such as John O'Shea or Wes Brown... I though Mancienne could be our, some may say that he is awful at HSV but it's hardly the same environnement that the one he would have find at Chelsea.

Park Ji Sung could be that kind of player?

[SeB 1,281]

Yes, of course... In a general view, under-rated players who does not moan when they are on the bench. It's my view of the thing

[Blue Armour 4,287]

I was talking with my boyfriend about some players (Xavi, Iniesta etc) and the discussion about the lucky and opportunist players came out.

Dont you think that we always needed players like this? Like Iniesta, he appeard in two important moments with Barcelona en Spain. Okay, im totally agree that Xavi and Messi carried Barcelona to the finals and stuff, and we have players that are very regular with their game (well maybe not now). But, we have any players like Iniesta for example? People that have i dont know, lucky to find out opportunies like that. (I admit Barcelona win the last champions because they were totally awesome, but my point is about cases like the Iniesta goal in the last minute, Liverpool comeback in 2005, Man utd with their two goals in 89+ etc etc).

For me, winning the league is the price for the most regular team in the season, but in the champions (or any competitions with eliminatories) you need some luck too.

So, thats my point, i think that maybe this is the factor that we lacked to win the champions league.

Drogba? Lampard,? Even Terry.., and Essien's fantastic long range shots? There have been numerous instances where they have conjured something out of nowhere to win us a trophy or get us through to the next round..

Its just that in Champions league the team as a whole has been unlucky, so I wouldn't think too much about it...

[Amblève. 4,995]

We haven't been lucky with the refs, it's not our players' fault...

[Madmax 9,219]

I can see where the OP is coming from. Under Roman we've more or less always had a functional style of play with flair as a characteristic not our strongest suit. If you look at the Mourinho years you'd be hard pressed to name a real wizard on the ball a la Zola or Zidane or Ronaldo or Dinho. Robben could have been that player but for his injuries. Joe Cole was a little different than the others and had his moments of brilliance now and then but Mourinho didn't trust him enough to get the job done.

Having said that, we've all been witness to the likes of Drogba and Lamps doing something spectacular to snatch a draw from nailed on defeats or a win from hopeless situations. Granted it's been the case mostly in the league or cup competitions but you mustn't forget that we were moments away from winning the CL and moments away from appearing in consecutive finals before being cheated out of it.

I think with Andre around and the more expansive style he aims to bring we can look forward to one or two such game changers in the fold. I have high hopes of Josh who I firmly believe is that player who has the ability to spot and play a pass that unlocks the meanest of defences. Mata is another.

P.S : I wouldn't class Iniesta as 'lucky'. He's a damn good football player with a damn good football brain and there's a reason his position is untouchable in both Barcelona and Spain.

[Hysteria 159]

P.S : I wouldn't class Iniesta as 'lucky'. He's a damn good football player with a damn good football brain and there's a reason his position is untouchable in both Barcelona and Spain.

I know, he is a wonderful football player. I said he was lucky for his two goal (against us and the world cup final) like he was lucky for find this opportunities. I 'm not sure if im explaining it well, but i never doubt about the his quality. In Panama we use a word for that, but i dont know if exists a word like that in english, lucky isnt the best word to descbribe my point about Iniesta.

[eldo 868]

P.S : I wouldn't class Iniesta as 'lucky'. He's a damn good football player with a damn good football brain and there's a reason his position is untouchable in both Barcelona and Spain.

Messi did all the work against us, Fiberglass did it at WC.

[Kojo 4,676]

Ramires-Essien/Mikel-???

Essien could be finished however. But that's not a poor midfield, but look at them two what do we lack in midfield? A playmaker, would love that to be Josh, but someone like Modric was and still is highly needed. Look at City they have Silva, and we have Mata, but they also have yaya toure we also have ???. We definitely need that player, but McEachran can start in my opinion, I think the burn out thing is a massive factor, yes he can still start games, just not all the time, but once a week is healthy enough I think.

[GodZola 630]

I know, he is a wonderful football player. I said he was lucky for his two goal (against us and the world cup final) like he was lucky for find this opportunities. I 'm not sure if im explaining it well, but i never doubt about the his quality. In Panama we use a word for that, but i dont know if exists a word like that in english, lucky isnt the best word to descbribe my point about Iniesta.

Ok perhaps you cannot explain Iniesta's brilliance so I will do it for you. If there was one player I could chose to play for Chelsea then he would be at the top of my list. Messi/Xavi et al are brilliant also but Iniesta would be the player that would take us to the next level imho, he is the playmaker that we so badly need but unfortunately would never leave Barca & if he did at what price?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I agree that an Iniesta-like player is what we are lacking to win the CL, but it's not luck what he brings to barcelona. It is creativity and more importantly tactical discipline. When I watch barcelona, I'm always amazed how Iniesta never ceases to be in the right and place in every attack and defense.

[eldo 868]

Fabregas>Iniesta.