Juan Mata

[Stingray 9,441]

What people are saying is he's exactly what we need though.....to bring on after 60 minutes once our striker has scored twice and put the game to bed.

Obviously ignore the fact that we don't have a 20 league-goal-a-season striker to do that, no what we need is that guy for the last half-hour to break down broken-down defences.

Now who would be good to bring in after 60 mins and bust a defense like battering ram? I wonder

[Jase 43,479]

No. I'm not twisting your words, just showing you how flawed this argument is. First all you're assuming that we lost all of these games because we couldn't create chances but I distinctly remember that in the West Ham game, Mata scored a goal and we created a gazillion chances in the first half. In the first half we were absolutely coasting and none of us could envision West Ham walking away with 3 points. Diame came on in the 2nd half and changed the game for them and our defence fell apart. Some of these games we lost not because we couldn't create chances but because our defending then was poor and that's something you're not factoring in. We have a better squad and a better first eleven than we did last season or even two seasons ago.

Of course Mata would be helpful to us in breaking down these teams - that's Mata's skill set, that's what he excels in. Just because we lost games to Villa, two seasons ago doesn't mean that Mata wouldn't have been useful to us when we faced them this season. This isn't me twisting your words, that just you using a flawed argument.

This is the thing I don't quite get with some people TBH. I get that with Mata in the team, there are gonna be some issues but after watching what he did for us in the past 2 1/2 years, it's kinda nonsensical to suggest he won't have helped us to make a difference in some of the games we've dropped points this season. Not saying he would have instantly helped us to win those games but certainly made a difference with his killer pass, ingenuity in the final third that is missing from most of our players. And as you pointed out, those defeats with him in the team were hardly his fault. You mentioned the West Ham game and take for instance the West Brom one. Wasn't even Mata's fault in those defeats that we missed chances and our defence f**k up at the back and conceded stupid goals.

And sorry to be posting this again but it feels rather apt to do so again...

True but TBF, that wasn't the case when Mata was still around under Mourinho. Was given a role with responsibilites (especially defensively) but still able to create chances. It's just that comparing him with our other AMs, he can give us that X-factor and create something from nothing for others (apart from Hazard) in final third. Not talking just about playing those through balls, 1-2s with the others but also chances like ball over the top of the opposition's defence when they are parking the bus/defending in numbers in front of us (e.g. Ba's FA Cup goal against United, Torres' league goal against Swansea two seasons ago) and it's these kind of chances at times, this kind of ingenuity, that is missing from our play when the opposition are being stubborn against us.

[The only place to be 11,313]

certainly made a difference with his killer pass,

To whom?

[Strike 7,475]

And that is a indisputable fact opinion whether you like it or not.

indisputable either way

[dee25 1,044]

This is the thing I don't quite get with some people TBH. I get that with Mata in the team, there are gonna be some issues but after watching what he did for us in the past 2 1/2 years, it's kinda nonsensical to suggest he won't have helped us to make a difference in some of the games we've dropped points this season. Not saying he would have instantly helped us to win those games but certainly made a difference with his killer pass, ingenuity in the final third that is missing from most of our players. And as you pointed out, those defeats with him in the team were hardly his fault. You mentioned the West Ham game and take for instance the West Brom one. Wasn't even Mata's fault in those defeats that we missed chances and our defence f**k up at the back and conceded stupid goals.

And sorry to be posting this again but it feels rather apt to do so again...

That's the thing, if the argument was that when Mata plays, we become vulnerable at the back......*that* I would get. That makes logical sense. But I absolutely can not take anyone seriously who can sit there with a straight face and say to me "Mata wouldn't make a difference to our attack because two seasons and four managers ago, he played when we lost to Villa" That's nonsense. It's not only nonsense, it's confirmation bias. Obviously no one is saying that Mata would create a zillion chances for us; no one is saying that if Mata plays we would suddenly be winning every single game. No one is saying anything of that such. What people are saying is that Mata's strength is that he's a set piece specialist and his creativity, and ability to pick out teammates with incisive passing is unrivalled by anyone in our squad. Those qualities would be an asset for us right now. Undoubtedly.

[The only place to be 11,313]

That's the thing, if the argument was that when Mata plays, we become vulnerable at the back......*that* I would get. That makes logical sense. But I absolutely can not take anyone seriously who can sit there with a straight face and say to me "Mata wouldn't make a difference to our attack because two seasons and four managers ago, he played when we lost to Villa" That's nonsense. It's not only nonsense, it's confirmation bias. Obviously no one is saying that Mata would create a zillion chances for us; no one is saying that if Mata plays we would suddenly be winning every single game. No one is saying anything of that such. What people are saying is that Mata's strength is that he's a set piece specialist and his creativity, and ability to pick out teammates with incisive passing is unrivalled by anyone in our squad. Those qualities would be an asset for us right now. Undoubtedly.

Good point - if you ignore his deficiencies and the fact that football is a team game where players are required to defend and attack, and view that equation in a vacuum that doesn't take into account the players in our team or the way teams set up against us then yes, he might have been an asset.

[The Skipper 20,609]

And that is a indisputable fact opinion whether you like it or not.

Mata did very well yesterday against a team who played naive, open football and he had a decent striker ahead of him....so of course that implies he'd do well for us when we've actually been missing a striker all season and face teams who come to defend.

Ryan Giggs has a 100% win record as manager - ergo he's a better manager than Mourinho and Rodgers.

I'm not talking about him doing well for us, I'm just stating that Oscar won't ever be as creative as him.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I'm not talking about him doing well for us, I'm just stating that Oscar won't ever be as creative as him.

He'll probably never fill a stats sheet like Mata but I've seen enough of Oscar to think that he is more than capable of finding and making the passes Mata does. It's consistency that he lacks.

In terms of being a key player for this team then I think he's more than capable of doing more than Juan did on both sides of the ball.

[The Skipper 20,609]

He'll probably never fill a stats sheet like Mata but I've seen enough of Oscar to think that he is more than capable of finding and making the passes Mata does. It's consistency that he lacks.

In terms of being a key player for this team then I think he's more than capable of doing more than Juan did on both sides of the ball.

I don't think he's capable of it. He's not bad creatively, but just don't think he'll reach Mata level.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I don't think he's capable of it. He's not bad creatively, but just don't think he'll reach Mata level.

I think if you told him to stand in the middle of the park and just ping balls about then he'd manage. I also think we'd lose games but I think he'd wrack up assists.

Like I said, I've seen that he is capable of playing the same balls as Mata but I think he's just very off-form. The difference between him and Mata is that when he's off-form, he doesn't tend to disappear. Mata can and has done. It's very easy to remember Mata's highlights and his stats but if he had an off-day or teams neutralised him (which is actually easy to do compared to someone like Silva) then he was on-par with Ozil in terms of chocolate-teapottedness.

[Las7 951]

At no time has Oscar constantly supplied the type of passes Mata is capable of. Oscar is still young and can improve but at the moment he is only better at Mata defensively. His form went to crap after Mata was sold - hence I originally said we should have kept Mata till at least the summer because I didn't believe Oscar can maintain his form and it's always possible for him to get injured.

It was a silly time to sell Mata, he could have been used in the title challenge and CL games even if he wasn't first choice. Jose made a decision based on team dynamic and keeping Mata Happy - we shouldn't really cared about such things putting ourselves in a better position to win titles would have been the most important thing this season.

Still the fact that we didn't have a striker for much of this season is the worst decision we made this year.

[The Skipper 20,609]

I think if you told him to stand in the middle of the park and just ping balls about then he'd manage. I also think we'd lose games but I think he'd wrack up assists.

Like I said, I've seen that he is capable of playing the same balls as Mata but I think he's just very off-form. The difference between him and Mata is that when he's off-form, he doesn't tend to disappear. Mata can and has done. It's very easy to remember Mata's highlights and his stats but if he had an off-day or teams neutralised him (which is actually easy to do compared to someone like Silva) then he was on-par with Ozil in terms of chocolate-teapottedness.

I don't think Oscar will ever be in the class of Mata, Ozil or Silva when it comes to creativity, it's a natural ability you need to have. If he ever gets to just below that level I'd be delighted but he's been very below par creatively this season.

[Nike 373]

We would of definitely won with mata against sunderland.

[Special Juan 28,107]

Wonder how he is enjoying life at at the mighty OT.

[Nike 373]

Mata's ability to create chances would have definitely helped us against the likes of Sunderland and Villa. In the attacking sense, he's twice the player Oscar is right now and he seemed to have a solid understanding with Hazard.

Would have loved to have seen Mata in the #10 with Matic - Luiz behind him...

O really?