Juan Mata

[Sheva. 5,373]

You don't win many things if your defence is leaking goals on a regular basis. The best teams score many goals because they're superior to others, but they also do not concede as many as others.

[robsblubot 3,568]

I hate this myth but it never seems to die. Defense doesn't win titles (also a myth in the NFL, but never mind that here). Money and talent wins titles and overall offense, not defense is a recently a much better correlation with winning titles. You could say offense wins titles and be accurate (or even better "goal differential) you couldn't say the same about defense..

Last 4 years in EPL Winner's rank in scoring and goals allowed

2012-2013- 1st, 5th

2011-2012-1st, 1st

2010-2011-1st, 3rd

2009-2010-1st, 2nd

Anyway, Mata and Hazard are very different players IMO Hazard is much more suited to play the wing and has shown more defensive responsibility than Mata is capable of but, like 99.9% of players in the world, lacks the offensive vision Mata has. (Not saying his isn't good, it is, but Mata's is sublime.) Hazard also uses his speed to try to beat and dribbles past players whereas Mata uses more his quickness to maneuver into space to create for himself and others and isn't really a big dribbler. Hazard is at home cutting in off the wing on his favoured right foot. Mata isn't that sort of player at all. In fact, I am not sure really what characteristics they have in common as players and what's making you say that they are basically the same player is baffling to me because they have almost nothing in common other than that neither is particularly good defensively and they are gifted offensively (and they play for Chelsea). Hazard has more in common with Schurrle and probably Willian than with Mata.

@Barbara-that's not the comparison (about how Oscar will develop). The comparison is between players right now and right now Mata is a vastly superior offensive player to Oscar and a vastly inferior defensive one.

we are talking about different things here. Quality is quality! Let's not label it or categorize it, just recognize it can be bought and top clubs do just that. That's why guys like David are worth big money too!

What I am talking about, however, is the trick of making quality players produce the defensive work necessary to win titles; that's what makes Mourinho a top manager in my view.

We could go into single-elimination ratios and goals, but bringing Basketball or American football in the discussion is wrong because those are higher scoring games, and football/soccer is a low scoring game. Especially in single-elimination competitions conceding a goal is often the end of it, especially in finals. Go trhough many finals and look at the scores; they are going to be low... very low and whoever scores first has a huge advantage.

Now, I don't think mata can defend if you hold a gun to his head. I hope I am wrong, but that's how I see him.

Allow me illustrate my point: is Ribery a defensive player? Or the fact he can apply pressure on the ball and regain possession high up the pitch a defensive trait? Does it help scoring goals? If so, how can it be defensive?

The fact Mata is not very good defensively cannot be seen as a mere characteristic, but rather what it is, a deficiency! Yes, he's still an excellent player, but just not as good as make him out to be here... again very IMHO.

[English Freak 456]

I hate this myth but it never seems to die. Defense doesn't win titles (also a myth in the NFL, but never mind that here). Money and talent wins titles and overall offense, not defense is a recently a much better correlation with winning titles. You could say offense wins titles and be accurate (or even better "goal differential) you couldn't say the same about defense..

Last 4 years in EPL Winner's rank in scoring and goals allowed

2012-2013- 1st, 5th

2011-2012-1st, 1st

2010-2011-1st, 3rd

2009-2010-1st, 2nd

Anyway, Mata and Hazard are very different players IMO Hazard is much more suited to play the wing and has shown more defensive responsibility than Mata is capable of but, like 99.9% of players in the world, lacks the offensive vision Mata has. (Not saying his isn't good, it is, but Mata's is sublime.) Hazard also uses his speed to try to beat and dribbles past players whereas Mata uses more his quickness to maneuver into space to create for himself and others and isn't really a big dribbler. Hazard is at home cutting in off the wing on his favoured right foot. Mata isn't that sort of player at all. In fact, I am not sure really what characteristics they have in common as players and what's making you say that they are basically the same player is baffling to me because they have almost nothing in common other than that neither is particularly good defensively and they are gifted offensively (and they play for Chelsea). Hazard has more in common with Schurrle and probably Willian than with Mata.

@Barbara-that's not the comparison (about how Oscar will develop). The comparison is between players right now and right now Mata is a vastly superior offensive player to Oscar and a vastly inferior defensive one.

The choice is:

A) You play Mata as the CAM, he links up well with Hazard and hence your team creates more scoring opportunities...however against the stronger teams, that also leaves you with a defensive hole.

or

You play Oscar as the CAM and limit the opposition's scoring opportunities. He just doesn't have that link with Hazard as of yet.

In my opinion, with Mata, I feel we are more likely to score 4+ goals in a game (we'd probably also concede 1-2 goals)

However with Oscar, we're more likely to score 1 to 2 goals in a game and keep a clean sheet.

It's a tough choice for the CAM position..but you gotta love our squad depth!

[Barbara 15,149]

As much as I love Mazacar - and I do - it isn't practical. If they were we wouldn't have had the season we had last year. Yes, Oscar and Hazard were still adapting to English Football, but how come we were never real contenders to the EPL title, lost all cups, got out in CL in the group stage and struggled against the likes of Basel and Benfica in Europa League?

There's something that isn't working for us in this combination. We didn't sign guys for our defense or DM (as I hardly see van Ginkel having an important role his season). If the results are somewhat better it may be because of 1) Mourinho gave stability for us defensively 2) we ended up with a more balanced team. If we don't it's proven we didn't address where we have problems that really cost us titles.

I don't know if we'll end up doing better, but if we do I hardly see Mazacar being our most used AM. On paper that makes little sense because in theory Oscar balances out Mata and Mata makes up for the creativity that Oscar lacks. Which is why sometimes the most perfect tactics in theory don't end up being as productive as we thought...

[Sidzeret 2,257]

As much as I love Mazacar - and I do - it isn't practical. If they were we wouldn't have had the season we had last year. Yes, Oscar and Hazard were still adapting to English Football, but how come we were never real contenders to the EPL title, lost all cups, got out in CL in the group stage and struggled against the likes of Basel and Benfica in Europa League?

There's something that isn't working for us in this combination. We didn't sign guys for our defense or DM (as I hardly see van Ginkel having an important role his season). If the results are somewhat better it may be because of 1) Mourinho gave stability for us defensively 2) we ended up with a more balanced team. If we don't it's proven we didn't address where we have problems that really cost us titles.

I don't know if we'll end up doing better, but if we do I hardly see Mazacar being our most used AM. On paper that makes little sense because in theory Oscar balances out Mata and Mata makes up for the creativity that Oscar lacks. Which is why sometimes the most perfect tactics in theory don't end up being as productive as we thought...

Pretty sure that's the case with Mazacar but i reckon v. Ginkel is going to be used more frequently than Mikel or Essien to play along with Lamps/Rami. He adds a touch of finesse and creativity that our DMs lack. He can be our very own Gundagon.:-P

[English Freak 456]

As much as I love Mazacar - and I do - it isn't practical. If they were we wouldn't have had the season we had last year. Yes, Oscar and Hazard were still adapting to English Football, but how come we were never real contenders to the EPL title, lost all cups, got out in CL in the group stage and struggled against the likes of Basel and Benfica in Europa League?

There's something that isn't working for us in this combination. We didn't sign guys for our defense or DM (as I hardly see van Ginkel having an important role his season). If the results are somewhat better it may be because of 1) Mourinho gave stability for us defensively 2) we ended up with a more balanced team. If we don't it's proven we didn't address where we have problems that really cost us titles.

I don't know if we'll end up doing better, but if we do I hardly see Mazacar being our most used AM. On paper that makes little sense because in theory Oscar balances out Mata and Mata makes up for the creativity that Oscar lacks. Which is why sometimes the most perfect tactics in theory don't end up being as productive as we thought...

I'm hoping Van Ginkel plays an important role as the season goes on...cause we can't go with Ramires - Lampard as our midfield combination for the whole season UNLESS Oscar drops back and supports them.

Hopefully as the season goes on...we see Ramires - Mikel or Ramires - MvG as the two midfielders...with Lampard playing 1 in 3 games.

[Barbara 15,149]

Pretty sure that's the case with Mazacar but i reckon v. Ginkel is going to be used more frequently than Mikel or Essien to play along with Lamps/Rami. He adds a touch of finesse and creativity that our DMs lack. He can be our very own Gundagon.:-P

I'm hoping Van Ginkel plays an important role as the season goes on...cause we can't go with Ramires - Lampard as our midfield combination for the whole season UNLESS Oscar drops back and supports them.

Hopefully as the season goes on...we see Ramires - Mikel or Ramires - MvG as the two midfielders...with Lampard playing 1 in 3 games.

I don't know guys... Mourinho trusts a lot in Lampard and except for the few minutes Marco played against Hull or Villa (my memory sucks that much), he used Mikel in all other occasions. I want to see Marco more especially because the kid needs the minutes to keep growing. I'm hoping he plays more - just like you do - I'm just not sure how much of it is wishful thinking and how much is a real possibility. I don't see Lamps playing 1 out of 3 matches at all - except if he's injured. I think he'll play as many matches as his body allows him to. Which if confirmed is one of the things I may disagree with Mourinho. I mean Lamps is still very much important for us in my opinion, but he's 35, he's no boy and shouldn't be used to exhaustion, but it seems like Mourinho is insisting with him at all possible matches

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I don't know guys... Mourinho trusts a lot in Lampard and except for the few minutes Marco played against Hull or Villa (my memory sucks that much), he used Mikel in all other occasions. I want to see Marco more especially because the kid needs the minutes to keep growing. I'm hoping he plays more - just like you do - I'm just not sure how much of it is wishful thinking and how much is a real possibility. I don't see Lamps playing 1 out of 3 matches at all - except if he's injured. I think he'll play as many matches as his body allows him to. Which if confirmed is one of the things I may disagree with Mourinho. I mean Lamps is still very much important for us in my opinion, but he's 35, he's no boy and shouldn't be used to exhaustion, but it seems like Mourinho is insisting with him at all possible matches

I hope we play MVG more. He's a good talent with his quick passing, he'll massively help us increase the tempo of our play especially now we'll likely have two dribblers on our flanks(hazard and willian) and a quick thinker in mata, just in front of him

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

Can't come on when we are defending, and first off when we are chasing.

Not good enough.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Really looked slow today.

[Stats 7,060]

Redknapp having quite a bit of a knee-jerk reaction claiming that Mourinho does not rate Mata as a footballer. He took him of early but he did look slow etc, it happens. Quite a strong statement to make. I am sure we will see Mata producing brilliance for the team as the season goes on.

[polo 18]

i don't understand why Mourinho doesn't want him

[Styles 9,790]

Really looked slow today.

Slow, incredibly weak (almost like a child) and like we're playing with 10 men unless the ball is at his feet. He should have been taken off at half-time.

[bleed_blue 136]

Was the only one that looked like creating anything.

Did pretty well considering the man behind him(the pivot master Mikel) was never gonna pass the ball to him in a promising situation.

[Stats 7,060]

Was the only one that looked like creating anything.

Did pretty well considering the man behind him(the pivot master Mikel) was never gonna pass the ball to him in a promising situation.

So you criticized/mocked Mikel for his performance and compliment Mata for today. You really are ludicrous sometimes

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

Was the only one that looked like creating anything.

Did pretty well considering the man behind him(the pivot master Mikel) was never gonna pass the ball to him in a promising situation.

Are we really gonna blame mikel for Mata playing shit?

[Magic Lamps 11,677]

When he is not sharp he becomes useless as soon as the player defending him is faster and stronger than him. Unfortunately almost every player in the epl are. So his rustiness cost us dearly today. I feel Mata had his early peak and is just not getting any better now but the season is still young and he has only played once so lets wait and see.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

When he is not sharp he becomes useless as soon as the player defending him is faster and stronger than him. Unfortunately almost every player in the epl are. So his rustiness cost us dearly today. I feel Mata had his early peak and is just not getting any better now but the season is still young and he has only played once so lets wait and see.

Twice. He started the villa game too.