Have we underachieved in the Roman era?

[Styles 9,790]

Since the club was bought by Roman in 2003 we have won;

three Premier League titles

three FA cups

two League cups

In that time we have also appeared in one Champions League final.

That is 8 seasons work.

The question I want to ask is do you think that we have underachieved considering the level of investment and some of the players we have had at our disposal since the 03-04 season?

[Ollie 4,400]

We've only been unlucky in the Champions League. Apart from that, we've done very well since he took over.

[Guest justin_3d]

Only way to find out, is measure against other clubs in our same predicament.

City being recently one, follow by Malaga and PSG.

[Madmax 9,219]

Don't think so. 3 leagues in 8 years is a good achievement, considering this club didn't really have a winner's mentality before that. We've been the 'nearly men' on several occasions too, esp. 2008 and with a bit of luck going our way would have done even better domestically. In Europe, the story is there for all to see.

I reckon some fans do feel a bit underwhelmed by our record post the back-to-back titles, but I'd put it down to the somewhat exaggerated expectations triggered by those two wonderful years under Mourinho.

[Styles 9,790]

We've only been unlucky in the Champions League. Apart from that, we've done very well since he took over.

You don't think we should have a few more league titles? Manchester United have won 4 of the last 5 leagues.

[Styles 9,790]

Don't think so. 3 leagues in 8 years is a good achievement, considering this club didn't really have a winner's mentality before that. We've been the 'nearly men' on several occasions too, esp. 2008 and with a bit of luck going our way would have done even better domestically. In Europe, the story is there for all to see.

I reckon some fans do feel a bit underwhelmed by our record post the back-to-back titles, but I'd put it down to the somewhat exaggerated expectations triggered by those two wonderful years under Mourinho.

I don’t think 3 leagues in 8 seasons is that good of an achievement considering the money that has been spent on players, transfer fees, wages and managers.

Exaggerated expectations is a result of the squads we have had available since 2003-2004. And we’ve been more or less second best to just one team for many years in what was essentially a two team league.

[ZanSnake 1,211]

I thuink we did well. At such a good start, and with Jose we accumlated an team with a back-bone and with a face and leader. When Jose went, there hasn't really been a face to the squad or a leader except JT and Lampard, but that should be the role of a manager. Carlo looked like he could have been it after the numerous failuires - but he became another casualty. With AVB, we can either have the actually face but Roman HAS to give time to develop a completely NEW identity with the squad.

We acheived alot under Jose and really never had the consistent level to win more except with Carlo.

[ZanSnake 1,211]

I don’t think 3 leagues in 8 seasons is that good of an achievement considering the money that has been spent on players, transfer fees, wages and managers.

Exaggerated expectations is a result of the squads we have had available since 2003-2004. And we’ve been more or less second best to just one team for many years in what was essentially a two team league.

You can't build a squad with a large frequent of money and expect them to play off the bat!

They need a man with an imagine and a style to create them in. Jose had a playing style, Carlo had a playing style. We got success under both managers, but Carlo indeciveness ruined it for him, and wasn't given the patience he probably should have got. The transfer are irrevelant. Look at Man Citeh, it has taken them about three seasons to finally find a winning style - which is not 100% frequent enough.

[Styles 9,790]

You can't build a squad with a large frequent of money and expect them to play off the bat!

They need a man with an imagine and a style to create them in. Jose had a playing style, Carlo had a playing style. We got success under both managers, but Carlo indeciveness ruined it for him, and wasn't given the patience he probably should have got. The transfer are irrevelant. Look at Man Citeh, it has taken them about three seasons to finally find a winning style - which is not 100% frequent enough.

Man City are a different breed. We were far ahead of them than they were when they were taken over. We were already a Champions League club and could attract World Cuperstars like Crespo.

We have done well since Roman took over but not close to where we should be if we're all honest.

[manpe 10,855]

We have underachieved in the sence that Mourinho got sacked and replaced by donks Grant and Scolari who had no clue. Hopefully with AVB the changing managers like socks has stopped. But in general, speaking of titles, we have done fairly well... of course no CL, that's an underachievement, but look at our unluck in the competition - it's unbelievable... the phantom goal, the weren't-meant-to-be red cards, Terry slipping on the winning penalty, several injury crysises. But only losers look for excuses, so I won't go there... in my opinion there have been unfortunate bad spells, bad decisions, but in general we have done well. Did Man City win the league in their first "sheikh-season"? Let alone back-to-back? No, they didn't, and they're richer than us.

[zolayes 14,489]

You don't think we should have a few more league titles? Manchester United have won 4 of the last 5 leagues.

if we had won more it still wouldn't have satisfied some ...It took us 50 years to win our first title then 50 more to win our second

[Madmax 9,219]

I don’t think 3 leagues in 8 seasons is that good of an achievement considering the money that has been spent on players, transfer fees, wages and managers.

Exaggerated expectations is a result of the squads we have had available since 2003-2004. And we’ve been more or less second best to just one team for many years in what was essentially a two team league.

It's unfair to compare a newly moneyed Chelsea with the seen-all, survived-all United who have been under the charge of the same man for a quarter of a century now.

Just spunking tons of money on players and wages doesn't bring instant results. I know we'd like it to, but it doesn't. It takes time to get them together and forge them into a team that has a winning attitude and a determined personality. Group ethos doesn't evolve in a day. The problem is Jose walked in, won loads of stuff and went away, making it seem oh so easy. Like we've found out, it isn't. Jose was and remains a unique manager, much like Ferguson.

It all boils down to continuity and placing trust and confidence in the right man. Unless we do that, we'll keep having periods of sporadic success like 09-10 and more such topics will keep on springing up.

[manpe 10,855]

I know we'd like it to, but it doesn't

Actually I wouldn't, it's enough that money rules every aspect of life, let football be unaffected and require real team spirit and leadership... of course it isn't unaffected, football is business like any else, but it takes more than just money to win in competitive leagues like Premiership and CL... and I'm glad for it.

[Madmax 9,219]

but it takes more than just money to win in competitive leagues like Premiership and CL... and I'm glad for it.

That's exactly what I said :mellow:

[manpe 10,855]

That's exactly what I said :mellow:

Yes, I know, but you also said that "we'd all like money to buy titles"... I just said that I wouldn't, because then City would dominate over us

[Madmax 9,219]

Yes, I know, but you also said that "we'd all like money to buy titles"... I just said that I wouldn't, because then City would dominate over us

No, I said that football fans expect spending to bear instant results, but titles can't be bought.

[manpe 10,855]

poteito potaato, the point remains fairly the same... expecting it is one thing, liking it to happen is another

But what do you think, could Jose have won titles with the pre-Roman team? I personally think the main things he brought with himself were new tactics, new approach, new winning mentality.. new players were a must, he was probably ordered to rebuild the team. If Mancini had been our "revolution boss", I doubt we would have achieved anything. Mourinho turned unknown players of Porto into heroes and champions, I believe he could have done similarly with the pre-Roman squads, no matter how much money he got. But yeah, it's pointless to speculate, maybe I rate TSO too highly

[warnie_666 1,081]

Underachieved for sure. All the talk of painting the world blue by 2011 by Kenyon didn't turn out to be true.

3 leagues in 8 seasons? Manchester Unites won 3 leagues in 3 season and 4 leagues and Champions League in the same period.

The aim was to win two champions leagues and we haven't won one. One reason for this underachievement is Romans ego. Had he not fired Mourinho we wouldn't have underachieved. But we fired him, and then Grant, and then Scolari and then Carlo. This way no team will achieve anything.

Hopefully AVB can help us knock Man Utd off their fucking perch.

I don't want my club to be one of those several clubs that once threatened to knock Man Utd off their no.1 status but later faded away into being just another top 4 team like Arsenal and Liverpool and to some extent Blackburn and Newcastlee.

I won't Chelsea to dominate the league like never before win titles after titles and not just one in 4 seasons.

Target for this decade is to win 8 titles and 3 Champions League.

I know it is ambitious but having ambitious targets will atleast drive us to achieve it