Rekin

Im pretty sure Mou wants to ease RLC in. 60 min here, a little more in the next one etc. Having said that, Mikel is on a yellow and terribly mediocre, I wish he would have gone off. Anyone know if Zouma's injury is serious?

I get the feeling that Koke will join this summer. Much of Chelsea's weakness this season (mostly revealed in CL) came from a lack of control in the middle. Matic and Fabregas were able to bully weaker teams, with Oscar at times adding to that effect as well, but when we went up against top teams the center often became non-existent. I'm sure that it will have bothered Mou greatly, and its hardly a coincident that the loudest rumors involve a CM. Schneiderlin is of course also possible, but it is known that Koke was the prime target last season already. The Times, The Guardian and Di Marzio are all reporting of the interest, and with a lot less spending being necessary than last season, Chelsea can go for two world-class signings rather than a few rotation players. I suspected it was a long shot last year, but I actually believe it will happen this time. In the best of worlds, this transfer window would see Varane, Koke and Bale/Griezmann come in. I think two of those are entirely realistic.

Yes, I am again aware of those issues. I still dont believe that Koke will turn Fabregas into a bench player. Neither do I believe that Mou will put Koke next to Matic with Fabregas higher up, as Fabregas has been quite poor in the 10 role.

I did consider that, but Fabregas is best suited deep. I doubt that Koke is meant to send Fabregas to the bench. Koke is versatile enough to operate higher up in my opinion.

Now this is interesting. If Chelsea are really interested in Griezmann and Koke (and with Times & Guardian reporting it, it is likely to be true), I wonder strongly if the idea is to play this way: Costa Hazard Griezmann Koke Fabregas Matic Azpilicueta Terry Zouma Ivanovic Courtois The advantage is that the front three are all players that have played both centrally and wide, so they would be able to roam around and probe the opposition for weaknesses. Behind them there would be a combination of steel (Koke and Matic), but also very creative players that can make things happen. There is also the fact that Koke too know how to play wide, so he would be another option to switch positions with in order to confuse the opposition. I would actually love that lineup, even more so if Varane joined as well. What I like the most about Griezmann is his close control and amazing finishing. He is like the perfect combination between a winger and a striker.

In my opinion the squad still have some way to go before it can measure up to the likes of Real, Bayern and Barca. Hazard, (Cech), Terry, Costa, Courtois and Matic are the players that I find essential and that for next season will be key for any CL push. Players such as Fabregas, Zouma, Luis, Willian, Azpilicueta and Ivanovic are brilliant but have some flaw that I think could be costly in the later stages of CL (some more than others, I love azpilicueta, but if we urgently need to score some goals rather than do our usual top-game thing, I do not believe that he is the player to help with that. Zouma is still a bit raw, but is getting there. I want to see Fabregas be more influential against top opposition). Mikel, Ramires, Cahill, Oscar and Drogba are in my opinion players that I think Chelsea would do well in replacing, either externally or internally, as I believe they are too limited to have an impact at the top level. I lik Cuadrado and wont judge him yet, but if his performances continue the way they have, he will belong to the last category. I would love to see Oscar, Mikel and Ramires sold, with Drogba either being player-staff, or allowed to leave (again, this is purely based on performance, not personal feelings). Together with sales of these, and whatever loanees that would be sold, I think there will be a substantial amount in the transfer account. Positions that need reinforcing are CM, AML, CB and ST. Of these I would say CB and AML are those that need a an elite level signing, while the rest need more of a back-up option (CM goes on both categories). For the striker position, I would love to see Bamford behind Remy and Costa (although I think Mou would prefer an older and physically stronger option). For CB I think Stones or Varane would be amazing, but I realize both would be very expensive. Then there is CM and AML. For the latter I honestly think Chelsea need to go for an all out signing and get Bale. Most of us know his qualities, so no need to go into detail. CM is more interesting. Should Ramires and Mikel leave, we would need two new options. Personally, I would love to see that being Koke as an external option, with Loftus-Cheek being the second one. The lineup I would like to see us progress into the season after the next is: Costa Hazard - Willian - Bale Fab/Koke - Matic Luis - Zouma - Varane/Stones - Azpilicueta Courtois As some of our most talented youth players are still around 18 or less, it is highly unlikely that they will become starters for a further 2-4 years. RLC might get the chance next season to start working towards his spot, and I dont think that getting a player such as Koke/Pogba would mean the end of his chances. For players further up such as Musonda and Boga they would, if their progress allowed it, be able to fight for the Cuadrado spot, as it is likely that he will be sold if he does not improve. Luis is not young, but I think it could be a good thing as I would love to see Dasilva get some games in the near future, as he has been extremely impressive this season. All in all, that lineup would offer world class, stability and depth. I doubt it will happen as this isnt FM, but these are the changes I would make.

If I was Abramovich I would with every right question the direction of the team. Last seasons wobbles were justified, relying on a midfield mostly based around Luiz, Mikel, Ramires and Lampard is not the way to win titles. What are the excuses this season though? We have very high quality on every position, and yet we struggle against so many sides where individual quality bails us out. How can that be acceptable? The only reason we are leading the table is because how incredible poor our titel rivals have been at times. Im a pragmatist, winning is what matters. It is however embarrassing how horrible our games of late have been, and we do not win them either.

Wow, what has happened to this team? Are we going to go for a goal-difference win based on a draw in the last game? Is that really the safest way to approach things? I was happy with Cahill based on last seasons performance, but it is obvious now that he only plays well when the whole team is defending deep, he is so out of his depth that it is sad. Having the right part of the defence contain Cahill and Ivanovic is truly dangerous. I also only half-blame Tibo for the second goal, Ivanovic needs to be more alert in those situations and cant passively start running away until he is 100% that the ball is safe. I have to say, I really love Mou but for every performance like this a little bit of my faith in him gets chiseled away. Lately he no longer comes of as a person in charge, but a bitter figure sulking in his dugout unhappy about everything.

Would be an extremely interesting purchase. It is always hard to tell with players that arent even 18 how they are going to turn out, but there is no doubt that he has an extraordinary talent. He reminds me a bit like a slightly more defensive Thiago, and that is not a small compliment. While Chelsea are in a completely different seat regarding their midfield now than when Ramires and Lampard where the two deeper ones, there is still no reason not to pick up Europe's biggest talents for the near future. While I cant say that I have followed more than a handful games with Tielemans, I still think it is very likely that he will become one of the greats. I personally would like to see Chelsea pick him up and send him on loan to a mid-table side in Germany where he can get a lot of games, while also see him in a more difficult environment. A squad with Matic, Fabregas, Tielemans and say RLC would be very competitive for a long time, while not being extremely expensive right now.

Certainly, I was mostly referring to those who are already regretting the Salah+money-cuadrado swap because the player who hardly made an impact in Chelsea is suddenly banging in goals in Serie A. It is hardly a secret that he hasnt taken to the league in the style of Costa or even Zouma (who had no experience of PL before) but I think we might need to show some understanding for him, it has only been a bit over a month so far.

The knee-jerk reactions here are just as unfortunate as they are expected. It is way too early to judge Cuadrado, he has shown signs of promise but also shared some of the problems he had in Fiorentina. PL is a tougher league and it will take some time for him to reach his best, I still greatly prefer him to Salah. It was a good purchase and I am certain we will reap the rewards 2015, whether it will be this season or next remains to be seen.

Not the worst option out there. There was never really any chance that we would have two 21-22 year olds as CB-partners in the near future (although I would like to think that Varane would be the exception to that) and I would never want to see Cahill as a permanent option, so it makes perfect sense to go for a established defender in his prime. Höwedes fits that description perfectly. I would like to think that Höwedes would complement Zouma quite well too.

It was the type of a game that just turns you off from football. Such incompetence from the referee, I can still not believe it. I feel so bad for Matic. He is a large defensive midfielder and would stereotypically be thought of as a rough hothead, but he seems like such a calm and well mannered guy. Add his passing and technique and you have a very unique and extremely talented player that deserves more protection from the officials. I prefer that he got sent off rather than having a broken bone. I like him more for what he did, this is a game of passions, and thugs like Barnes need to be brought into the spotlight. He will be extremely missed, and it pisses me off that he as the victim will get the worst punishment. I so hate when it isnt the game on the pitch deciding results, but completely incompetent officials who protect each other and are above questioning. Fuck Barnes, Fuck Atkinson and Fuck the FA.

With Zouma winning CFC hearts everywhere (almost) and turning out to replace Cahill rather than Terry as many expected, it would be interesting to look at who might be viable at taking the spot next to him. Zouma is a brute (I mean this in a positive way, he is physical perfection). He is quick, agile and pro-active. He is however not a great passer, and a bit lacking in positioning. I also still believe him to not be a great tackler (although some of the ones he has done show great progress, I might have to revise my opinion soon if he continues like that). I expect him to improve on these aspects, he is only 20 after all and has already improved a lot from the summer. Never the less, it would be good to have someone who has Zouma's weaknesses as strengths next to him (which is why I loved the JT-Ricky combo). Is there anyone who seem so made for that role as Laporte? The guy is French (communication), he is left-footed (next to Zouma's right foot), is excellent at tackling and interceptions while also being a very good passer. While I think he is a bit prone on holding the ball too long sometimes (and as a consequence loses it), he makes up for it to some degree by having a good positional sense. I see him as one of those intelligent defenders with the right instinct. He is also quite strong in the air, and has a reasonable pace for a defender in my opinion. I simply dont believe in Christensen, feel that Omeruo is too short and have doubts about Kalas. I really dont want Cahill as a starter, and dont think Terry will continue past the next season. Unless Jose sees things differently (and all the loans for the youngsters and limited opportunities for Christensen do not imply that) we will be in the market soon. Now, Im convinced we will buy a more senior defender as I seriously doubt we will have two CB-starters aged 20/21, but there might still be room for a future option. We have been linked to Laporte before (which might imply that we are monitoring him). While the price will be high, Bilbao has some money trouble. They have only shown positive results lately due to the sales of Herrera and Martinez, combined with this seasons money from CL. Next season they will not be in CL, while Laporte seems like the only player they can get a lot of money for. It doesnt necessarily mean that we will get him for £10m, but it can lead to a discounted price. If we cant get Varane, this would be the second best option for me (I also love Subotic, but if I remember it correctly he has had a lot of injury problems).

Who would be a good partner to Zouma? While Terry to me is perfect, he wont last forever and I doubt Cahill is meant to be his replacement. While we have talented youngsters in some positions, I do not think too highly of the CB's. While I was contemplating writing my opinions about him I quickly jumped into WhoScored to check his stats, and found that they just wrote a piece about him: http://www.whoscored.com/Articles/prctsqqm_u2iw_l_mht6da/Show/Player-Focus-Happy-and-Committed-Zouma-Has-Potential-to-Become-Chelsea-Stalwart So, he has yet to be dribbled past in the league, and has shown himself to excel Cahill in tackles and interceptions (although sample size is still small). He seems to be rather impossible to beat on the ground. The articles mentions that he has been dribbled past only seven times in 69 league games throughout his career. This includes the games where he was still 18 (in which season he actually wasnt dribbled past even once). He is quickly becoming one of my favorite players. 2014 might just go down as the best year of transfers for Chelsea ever. Zouma, Luis, Matic, Costa, Fabregas and to some degree Courtois. I personally think that Real wont let go of Varane, so I really wonder who the new player might be (as Im convinced we will buy one). Some young centre backs that I think would complement Zouma are (although Im not at all for having two very young CB's right away) Laporte (although he seems physically weak to me and would be too expensive) and De Vrij (lazio might not let him go after just one season). Caulker would not be terrible either (although Im not fully convinced yet).

Assists and goals are precise stats? Sure, they tell you the end result, but show nothing behind the scenes. Key passes and dribbles for example show the opposite, what kind of a player we are dealing with and the players strengths. Goals and assists gain power the higher they amount to, but when you are in the grey zone (which one could argue Oscar is) there is absolutely no telling whether the goals scored were the 4-0 and 5-0 in a victory against Swansea, and whether the assist is of the type I describe below. In other words they could be utterly useless if not combined with supportive stats (and again, the higher the G&A amount, the less this is true. You dont need Ronaldo and Messi's supporting stats to know they are absolutely amazing players). I remember one assist Fabregas got early in the season where he was strolling around the box without a target and eventually just let Hazard get it. Hazard went on to dribble his way through several defenders and score. How important was Fabregas in this? There was no creative or technical or even positional effort behind it, the pass could have been from Cahill and it would have led to the same end result. I really dislike that you feel the need to use ad hoc arguments like describing people using chances created as "stupid". It is actually a very common measure for creativity, and you will find that combined with other stats, it is very revealing. Sure, it is easy enough to see that a player like Silva for example is creative without checking his stats, but that is beside the point. We want to see how good a player is in an area, not if they are good at all. You can also use other supporting stats to create a context for the other stats. Now, Oscar has scored important goals and assists, Im the first one to admit that. I enjoyed his assisting crosses for Costa and Hazard in particular. I also really enjoyed his goal from a free-kick. Personally the issue for me is not whether he is a good player, we all know he is. The issue is whether he can realistically be improved upon. I see a lot of people who believe that he can, and I have yet to see you or anyone else provide a very strong argument for why they are wrong. To be fair, it is rather impossible to prove either side wrong. The replacement-hunters side(which includes me) can show how poor creatively he is, how poor he is technically and argue for someone else who could do a better job as a 10. How are you going to argue against that? It is impossible to prove that (my favorite example) Firmino or any other player who has done a great job in their current club would be worse in Chelsea. Every single transfer has risk attached to it, and hindsight is always 20/20. I mean, look at Willian. He had scored one goal during the whole season from the flank. Yesterday he started centrally and got a goal in his first game. It is a very small sample, but it still implies that it is easier to gather points from that position, even for a player who is constantly bemoaned for lacking end-product. On the other side of the coin those who want Oscar to remain as 10 could say that he has scored this many goals and this many assists while bringing "balance". How is the other side going to prove that someone else would have done a better job? It is also impossible. It is a speculative zone that neither of us can prove. All we can do is state our opinions about whether Oscar is the right player. The opinion cant be wrong in this scenario. How we argue for our opinion can be wrong. I personally think that Chelsea had a lot more important problems to solve than Oscar. We had Ramires and Lampard in the pivot last season, Eto'o as a striker and an aging defense. Those were much more important problems than getting a small/medium amount of potential optimization from replacing Oscar. Now however, we have managed to acquire an absolute smashing 11, while also having a strong bench. Now is the time to focus efforts on replacing good players with great ones (if the market allows of course. If the only potential replacements are too expensive, not found or otherwise unavailable then the club of course waits). I further personally believe that Chelsea can do better than Oscar. To me he is this CFC-generations Mikel (although an offensive version ofc, one is better staying back while the other is better going forward). A solid, hardworking and comfortable on the ball player who fits perfectly as a squad player and occasionally have good games. You like having him in the squad, you start him when someone else who is better cant play, but ultimately you find him limited as a player and suspect there is someone else out there who would do a better job on that position. Since he is young though, he can still hide behind the "developing" label. Again, just my opinion. If Mou keep playing him for the next few seasons and he magically turn into twice the player he is today, I will be wrong but still very happy. I assure everyone it is possible to not find Oscar great while at the same time wishing Chelsea the best.

Brilliant tackles. After the pre-season I am a little bit afraid each time he goes down in the box, but instead he proves how much he has developed. If we can get a proper more ball-playing defender next to him with above average pace we will have an amazing pairing. I really hope he plays the majority of the games remaining.

How convenient. So it is an acceptable source when you want it to be, but otherwise it is to be used as a counter to an argument? You really are horrible at this. Stats like tackles do not need to be taken from FM or FIFA as we actually have the real values, and we know that Firmino do more of them. Do you not understand that we substitute virtual values when we cant get real ones? Pace is much harder to measure than the amount of tackles, which is why my reference was used. Yes, some of the values from the game are contradicting what I said earlier, but it is quite irrelevant as the values I used in my previous argument are taken right from the real world. There is also the problem with those games that more well-known players in bigger clubs get a bonus to their values. Take a look at how Matic has been upgraded from one version to the other, even though he is basically the same player as he was in Benfica. Feel free to use caps and a massive amount of question-marks and dots to make your next point though, it really makes you appear more mature. Look, I have never claimed that stats can be used to eliminate all variables. I am not going to enter a debate on when they are valid and how to use them, Ive done it too many times before. In this context I have seen Firmino many times (around 15 games with Hoffenheim), and I was combining this with a long list of stats earlier in the thread to show that out off all the players in the world, he was the only one I could see being an upgrade on Oscar while also retaining the "balance" oscar brings. Then this guy got stuck on his pass success and have trolling around ever since; backtracking, ignoring arguments, putting words in my mouth etc. Every time I prove him wrong (by showing him Oscar's world cup stats, explaining that Firmino is an excellent counter-attack player, showing him the productivity of the player, showing their similarity in pace) he just ignores that and keeps adding up BS that gets frustrating to answer. I agree about WhoScored. It is far from perfect, but then again it does have its value when observing absolute values. It usually ignores the playing style of a team, but if you can add that to existing knowledge, then it becomes a much better measure. Anyway, this has gone on long enough without really adding anything. I have made my point about everything I had to say in this topic, and replying to Chelsea Legend is nothing but a waste of time, that much is obvious to me now.

Fair enough. It can a bit annoying though to have people focus on a tiny aspect of a long post. I can understand your take on it though. @Barbara Yes, it is not ideal to use values from a computer game, I understand that. It is one thing to compare Mertesacker and Walcott though, and another to compare two players who are quite similar. The main thing the video game reference was meant to show was that two separate huge football games have valued Oscar & Firmino to have almost identical pace. Surely that is a more credible argument than for one person to claim that he can see that one is much faster than another through a few youtube clips? It was not meant to be absolute proof, just show that it is unlikely that the games would have put very similar values if there really was such a huge difference between them. Do you disagree with this?

Why dont you check FM and FIFA? They will give you the same answer you are expecting. Not exactly sure why that example is supposed to support your case. To the others: I really didnt think I would have to explain further, but apparently it is a hard concept for some. FIFA and FM do not base their numbers on pure observation, but work with organisations such as whoscored, squawka and optajoe among others to determine the values. In this scenario the other poster was writing that Firmino is significantly slower than Oscar while I disagreed. Since there was no way for either us to really prove our case, turning to this kind of database was the closest thing we could get to the truth. Ideal? No, but when you cant get the answer on a silver plate, you go for what data you can find. I seriously do not understand how anyone can turn this into "I believe computer games are reality". Am I being trolled or do people really have a hard time grasping this?

Did you actually read the context or did you just feel the need to be patronizing? The only reason I included FIFA/FM was because it is impossible to rate someones pace by pure observation. I assume that the developers of the game actually do some research instead of giving players a random number. Is that really that complicated? @Cholo. Sometimes this forum just surprises me. There are some excellent members, and then there are... well you can guess the rest. Is the context too difficult for you to grasp? The whole point was that people can share some underlining beliefs yet diverge a lot when it comes to specifics. I feel that republicans and democrats explain my point in an easy to understand fashion. I was wrong apparently.

They shared the basics of my opinion. Republicans and democrats both desire a democracy, but can hardly be put together on most issues. Look, you show no understanding of how to analyze statistics, and you keep making claims about what I say, regardless if they are true or not. Why should I want to keep answering you when you keep being extremely biased and dismiss facts out of hand just because they dont fit your agenda? You claim that I say we need a player who makes difficult passes regardless of whether he is good at them, but it is simply fantasy. I said we need a more creative version of Oscar, and that Firmino has the stats to back him up for being that player. How you transform that into the above defies all logic, but it is starting to be a pattern with you; a lack of logic and reason. In terms of his pass completion, it again shows that you keep ignoring what I explained. He plays in a far inferior team, and has a higher creative responsibility. Oscar tends to bring the ball from deep and just pass it around to other players who are expected to make the breakthrough. Firmino lacks that luxury, and he still eclipses Oscar in the defensive side of his play. Look how quick you are to dismiss the world cup when it doesnt fit your agenda! What is this "completely different role" that Oscar had in the WC that makes it impossible to compare performances? Just because he played a fair amount of the minutes wide does not somehow justify having very poor passing stats. He does not spend 100% of his time centrally in Chelsea if that is what you thought. Do you even know what a straw man argument is? This is a direct comparison of the same player in two different environments. It is really starting to annoy me that you make claims for what I have said that are not based on reality. I implied that the players around Oscar boost his stats, never that they were the only reason that he is doing "well". It just baffles me how much garbage comes out of you. One of the greatest strengths of Firmino is how he plays in counters, and here you sit and ask how we possibly could counter with him in the team? Its just absurd from you to write that he makes terrible decisions and imply his "unsuccessful" dribbles when he was one of the most productive and highly rated players of Bundesliga last season, and shined against the two top teams when they played. Hoffenheim play defensively with quick counters. Please explain to me how Firmino got 16 goals and 11 assists if he is in any way detrimental to counters, I really want you to answer that (although I expect the standard "easy and slow league" answer nonsense). Only Marco Reus was more productive last season, and only four players have been more productive this season so far in germany. I can in every shape, way and form say that we could do with a no 10 that is better than Oscar at key passes, technique and defensive duties. How do you measure Firminos pace? I'm really curious about that. I dont have a tracker in his boots, and I cant compare two people's pace by simply looking at them in different games. The closest thing I can find is how two games that actually do have partnerships with organisations that do measure these things have valued the pace of the two players. The outcome is: Oscar Pace Fifa15/FM15 - 81/15 Firmino Pace Fifa15/FM15 - 77/15 Oh, what is that now? These two behemoths of a game seem to completely disagree with your assessment of Firmino's pace. How is that possible? They seem to think that both have very similar pace. Im sure though that your eagle eye have spotted the difference a lot more accurately, and that these games have picked his pace from a hat. Totally rational explanation. Also, it blows my mind how you completely disrespect me by ignoring what I write. I couldnt make it clearer that Firmino actually has better defensive stats than Oscar, and yet you ask me how bringing "another dribbler" into the team is going to improve us. Do you simply not understand that the deal with Firmino is that he matches or eclipses Oscar in defensive stats while also having a better technique and supplying more key passes while playing in a far worse team? I literally cant make this clearer. Ask any hoffenheim player about Firmino; you will find that his strengths are his productivity from counters and extremely hard work. So please stop writing about the limitations of Firmino when you seem to base your complete opinion of him on his passing completion (which is ridiculous to start with) and manage to get it completely wrong when discussing his shortcomings. Why isnt he capped? He has played two friendlies for Brazil. I dont see why this would be a strong argument regardless. Why did Luiz start in favor of Miranda? Why is he playing in Hoffenheim? He is 23, and plays for a club that do not need to sell and has performs well in the german league. Last season he was amazing, and I suppose most clubs want to make sure he can maintain that form before forking over the large transfer fee that he would cost. Why did Matic play in Benfica, Willian and Fernandinho in Schaktar, Martinez in Bilbao, Yaya in some Ukrainian team, Drogba in Guingamp etc? Not every player becomes a star at 18, I dont see why that would argue in your favor. EDIT: Look, Im simply not getting through to you. It is perfectly fine if you disagree with me about Oscar, its just that most of your arguments are completely nonsensical. I will simply say that I agree to disagree and leave this conversation as it has bored me by now and appears to lead absolutely nowhere.

Do you feel more sophisticated when using big letters and adding a lot of dots? Do you feel more in charge when picking a few players who fit your argument regardless of the context? I'm sorry but I have no intention of continuing this debate if you are going to use those mechanics, as this is neither a sandbox nor the british parliament. Let me make one thing very clear. While it seems that Lionsden and Skipper have similar opinions about Oscar as I do, we all make our arguments separately. I am the one who would like Firmino, I do not think they have even mentioned him by name, so dragging them into my argument and piling us up together is another poor attempt to discredit our opinion. Now, let us get to some basics straight. First of all, Hoffenheim is not Chelsea. Second of all, Firmino neither is nor plays the same way as Oscar. The important thing to gather from this is that you can not take take a simple statistic in isolation and compare them. You say Oscar completes more passes and loses possession less often, but that ignore so many factors. Is Oscar our main attacking outlet? Does he try to dribble his way through the opposition often? No. Firmino however fit that description for his team. A player who take on other players and try to lead the attack is always going to get dispossessed more often, and be pressured into a poor pass. Oscar often pings the ball around, and have genius or hardworking players like Hazard and Willian around him, not to mention that he has two of the hardest working players in the league, Fabregas and Matic, behind him. You do realize I hope that it makes a huge difference? Oscar got dispossessed a lot more in the world cup with Brazil when he had a different role and different players around him. Are you starting to understand the difference? Do you know what his passing % was there? 78%, in other words marginally better than those players you mentioned earlier as prime examples of being sub-par. Do you want more passing statistics from Oscar being in a different environment (as in the World Cup)? There were 143 players with a higher amount of passes/game. He was number 294 when it comes to pass success. Sure, many players ahead of him played fewer games, but it doesnt change the fact that his passing stats were abysmal when he had a more direct role than the one he has in Chelsea, and lets remember that he played in one of the tournaments best team. Do you see what different circumstances can do a players statistics? I could also play your flawed game and use the example of Mikel, who sits on a 90% success rate for his passes. He must be an amazing player then, we should put him as number 10 as he obviously will pick apart every defense with his homing beacons of passes. Speed? Firmino is slightly slower than Oscar. You are being completely biased by just using the statistics that fit you. I at least had the decency to include those were Oscar was better than Firmino. Are we going to ignore that Firmino has the highest success rate of dribbles of all AMC's while according to you being extremely slow? Are we going to ignore that even though he has much worse players around him he still manages to accomplish more key passes? Are we going to ignore that he manages to complete more tackles and interceptions per game? Firmino is the risk-taker in Hoffenheim, the one who makes things happen. Oscar is in no way that player in Chelsea. It would be a valid argument to speculate that if they switched positions, they could both do well in either team. That does however ignore that Firmino at the moment completes a combination of the role Oscar has right now, and the traditional role a 10 is expected to have. Also, are you serious with your first sentence? He does obviously succeed with his difficult passes if he has a good bit higher of them than Oscar. What does it say about a player who has more key passes than Oscar but a lower general success rate? Key Passes does not measure attempted ones, but successful ones.

The pass completion rate means very little depending on the type of passes made. Oscar has a higher amount of passes in total, but fewer key passes which tells you that he does a greater amount of safe passes than Firmino does. The whole point of all the individual stats I showed before was to create a profile for the players, not to belittle Oscar or make him appear worthless. Quite the contrary, the stats show a unique player who performs relatively well in his tasks which include defensive responsibilities. However, the conclusion from the stats were that Firmino actually performs quite a bit better than Oscar on the defensive side. If we bought him, we would not lose that balance that Oscar gives. We would in addition to that also get a player who performs more key passes, and who is one of Europe's best dribblers. This led me to decide that in my opinion, Firmino is the only reasonable player we can buy that retain the tactics of the 10 role that we have today, while also being an upgrade. Buying someone like Isco would mean we have to change the role completely, and I dont see Mourinho doing that just yet. The only drawback of RF is his pace, but then again Oscar isnt exactly lightning quick himself. I believe the slight loss in speed would be compensated for in all the other areas where I believe Firmino to be better. He is in my opinion a more direct, alert, creative and technical player than Oscar, and the statistics do support the case, as do his performance in the team. Also worth adding is that Firmino is the main man in Hoffenheim, he carries primarily offensive responsibilities there, which makes his defensive stats all the more impressive.

Whatever, that is all just your opinion which you have every right to have, but no real proof really of anything that should convince me of your standpoint. I follow most of the big leagues, and I have a few on-the-side teams whose games I like to follow. I dont claim to follow Hoffenheim on a constant basis, but I did see roughly ten games or more last season, and two or three this one. Yes, Firmino is the defensively strongest AMC in the world while also having excellent offensive stats, but lets pretend he is "un-coordinated" and "looks out of shape". Seriously, if thats the level of this debate then I really rather just leave it.