The only place to be

There are more appropriate places you could throw that. I'd say they've done brilliant work over the last few windows, maximising the amount of money we make from transferring unwanted players whilst identifying targets quickly and getting players for good prices on the whole. Compared to how we used to do business it's a marked improvement, but I think you're setting your standards way too high and quite frankly unrealistically. In the real world, people make mistakes. It happens, it's how you recover from them that matters. It's interesting that you think optimism is clutching at straws. Why not wait until something happens until you start moaning about it.

In recent years? How recent? Since the summer of 2011 they've not done too bad, learning their lessons from the Torres transfer. I'd love for you to explain how buying one of the best left-backs around will 'fuck up their good work'. We conceivably go into next season with a top class striker and a top class left-back, immediately upgrading two of the trouble positions in a team that only finished four points off the top spot. When you talk about 'good work' you also have to look at the club in it's entirety and the work they do in the academy. We have the Dutch-u21 left-back who has played in more European competitions than Luke Shaw, captained our youth and reserve teams and was actually promoted to the first-team squad when we let Ryan Bertrand leave. Part of our new philosophy seems to be to promote young players so maybe we don't need to gamble £30 million plus wages on Shaw. Maybe we can get by with a top-class left-back and give the youngsters a chance.

Shaw's a good young player who will hopefully have a good future. Luis is better at the moment though. You might want to try saying what you mean then because otherwise it just seems like you're one of those people who moans about 'the board' for the sake of it. You talk as if our board has a bad recent record which they really don't. Azpi was better than him. Baines also had a fabulous season.

Because buying one of the form left-backs in Europe last season is stupid?

Possibly, but the other way to look at it is that it's better to spend £20 million on a proven commodity than £30 million (+ an extra £1 million in wages) on an unproven yet still promising option whilst looking to develop your own talent. I'd love for Shaw to come in and be that guy we all hope he can be but it's a big risk and those figures are insane. £100k p/w at 18 makes me wonder what he'll want at 26.

Well Ake was promoted to the squad when Bertrand went out on loan and he's been playing a fair bit at left-back. The fact is that we could buy the left-back of La Liga champions and Champions League finalists for less money and less wages than we'll get Shaw. He's a massive gamble no matter which way you slice it.

I have absolutely no idea what people base these notions on. When's the last time we sold a player we wanted to keep? Luiz was unwanted. Mata was unwanted. Robben was unwanted. People need to stop worrying needlessly.

Get decent cover in and incorporate the youth. Our chances of success aren't dependent on signing Pogba. Just like Pogba at United.

Yep, looks in good knick and will get a whole summer to get fit. Really hope he can hit the ground running and contribute in a way he wasn't able to last year.

But still at some point they need to be given a chance, just like Pogba was. Spending such an inflated fee on a player when you might have homegrown alternatives just seems a bit unnecessary.

Traore probably won't and Baker should go on loan because whilst he's a nice player, I think he lacks that top, top class composure and touch. I hope he proves me wrong though. I'm talking more about the likes of Van Ginkel, Chalobah and Loftus-Cheek, possibly even Ake. Those are 22, 19 and 18 year olds and we're talking about signing a guy who is only 21 and was essentially let go by United.

Real Madrid were amassing Galacticos almost a decade before we signed Torres. I'm amazed that in a Pogba thread people so readily write off our youngsters. It is funny.

Luiz is an anomaly. Fuck know's what went on there but I seriously doubt he's the new normal. I'm simply amazed that people are so disparaging of our young players and simply want to buy success. That seems like such a cold, emotionless way to follow football.

I'm not entirely convinced both will get any loans. Chalobah doesn't need another loan to the Championship and I'm not 100% convinced Loftus-Cheek will be. Not for €65 million. Courtois didn't cost that. Lukaku didn't cost that. Oscar didn't cost that. Schurrle didn't cost that. Salah didn't cost that. No-one i doubting his ability but the price is just so far beyond the pale.

I wasn't going to say you sound cynical.

But don't you want to see us produce another John Terry? Surely you remember how you felt when he came into the team, don't you?

The academy doesn't really make money. I think you're confusing that with our tactic of buying young players and loaning them which is partly to make money. The academy covers it's costs and that's about it. So how much should we sell Chalobah and Loftus-Cheek for?

So what is the point of having an Academy then? Chelsea haven't always bought talent/success either. It wouldn't be 'relying' on them but incorpating them into the squad, although Baker is almost certainly going out on loan. Pogba is only at Juventus because United didn't give him a chance.

I don't think anyone doubts how good Pogba could be, just that the prices floating around are insane. If his agent pushes for less than £150k p/w he wants sacking.

So the €60 million player ahead of them won't stop them? There won't be a financial prerogative to give this guy more chances, regardless of his effectiveness? How many points did Real Madrid win the league by?

Real also won La Liga didn't they? They spent the most money after all. Which badge? The commemorative ones we release if we win a trophy? I think you'll just have to forgive us sentimental types who get attached to names like Osgood, Bentley, Lampard and Terry and want to see the next ones come through. Maybe we shouldn't bother with names on shirts anymore though. Just have transfer fees. Someone should change this thread title to Mr €65 Million. A midfield of €65 Million and £21 million would be amazing. In a betting sense it would actually mean spreading the bet rather than going all in on 1 horse. I don't see how putting all this money on Pogba is in any way 'hedging your bets'. Was buying Torres in 2011 hedging our bets? No. Buying 3 strikers who cost a combined £50 million would be closer.

THAT'S NOT THE CORRECT WAY TO USE THAT PHRASE. Stop saying hedge your bets unless you actually mean hedge your bets. What you actually mean to say is 'go all in' which is the complete fucking opposite of hedging your bets. It couldn't be further away from what you mean to say if you tried. You could literally mash the keyboard with your fists and it would probably produce something more apt than saying 'hedge your bets'. OK? No offence. Phew.....right. As for Chalobah, I've never really failed to be impressed by him. I've been a fan of his since his days in the youth team and at Watford he looked a very special player. In fact if you're looking for a player to be like Yaya Toure then it's probably Nat. He has that laconic style that Yaya has whereas Pogba is a lot more agile and fleet of foot. But I would back Nat Chalobah to step up if given the chance. There's a reason the club gave him such a big contract and the belief amongst the coaches seems to be there too. It's also not just him, but Loftus-Cheek too. Spending €65 million on a 21 year old when we have similar players aged 19 and 18 just strikes me as a little silly. That's double what we spent on Hazard for instance, more than four times what we spent on Lukaku and three times what we spent on Courtois and Azpilicueta COMBINED. I don't quite get the ease with which people can find themselves with such spending.

Is 'hedge our bets' some kind of phrase of the day or something? Chalobah hasn't just been around for the last six months. At Watford he was one of the best players in the Championship. He's been voted England young player of the year. He was a star in our FA Youth Cup team up against a certain Paul Pogba....the same Paul Pogba who left to go to Juve at roughly the same age Nat is now for a tiny fee before erupting into this amazing player. So if you want to tell me that Nat Chalobah doesn't have what it takes to be a top level player for us then that's fine. I'll trust your analytical abilities. If the same goes for Ruben Loftus-Cheek then maybe there's a strong impetus for us to invest what is a large sum in a player like Pogba. But if the club thinks they can develop a player of similar quality in-house then there's a good reason not to take such a large gamble. If we signed just Costa and gave the youngsters a chance whilst bringing in someone like Tiago we'd win the league too. I can't prove that, just like you can't prove your assertion, but I strongly think we're not that far off being the best team around already. The highest level isn't Serie A and the Europa League. We should send Pogba on loan too, just to make sure.

Shaw is not a 'lock'. He's a massive gamble. Pogba at more than twice that price is also a massive gamble. I'm still intrigued by your use of the phrase 'hedging your bets' when you're talking about committing so much money towards Pogba. As for my bias towards English players, I think we need an English core at this club. I also like Shaw for purely sentimental reasons as well, which I've never really denied.

How is spending this much money on Pogba 'hedging our bets'? This amount of money is an insane gamble, much like the Torres deal and that had ramifications much further down the line. You said yourself that last Summer we spent this much money on 4 players - that's hedging your bets/spreading the risk. The figures being bandied about for Pogba would make him the joint-fifth most expensive player of all time yet that seems acceptable to some? Chalobah. He's still a gamble but there's no money attached since we own him. Similarly Tiago would be a smaller gamble since he's free and a proven quantity in more ways.