The only place to be

I think Ake may well go out on loan too, purely because he needs more game time at left-back which means we probably sell Van Aanholt to someone who isn't Vitesse. Bertrand would be third-choice left-back here (Luis, Azpi) and I don't think you need specialised left-backs for that role. Plus Luis and Azpi seem to be adept at avoiding niggling injuries so you're planning for an unlikely event.

No you're right. It's disgraceful that Rambo didn't get credit after that performance. Well done Ramires, pat on the head and a gold star.

Actually it's now been revealed that the Germans basically took their foot off the gas at half-time so as not to embarrass the Brazilians, so maybe that had more to do with Rami's 'dominating' performance....at least until Schurrle came on and the Germans decided to start playing again.

I don't think it's worth keeping him around when there's money on the table, no. Bertrand is a funny old player because he's been completely unspectacular since he was a kid at Gillingham. I was talking to a bloke in the pub a few weeks ago who actually knew him then and it was exactly the same case. Absolutely nothing we do next season hinges on whether Bertrand is still part of the squad or not. Ake and Zouma will need minutes if they stay here as well and I probably think Ake is a more rounded player already.

Because he's not that good. He's never been that good and it's surprising he's had a career at a top club this long. Next season we have Luis, Azpi, Ivanovic and possibly Zouma and Ake who can cover the full-back positions. Anything more than £6 million for Bertrand is great business.

Because it's nice to be proven right. I'm petty like that sometimes. I also dislike him as a player because I think he's all about himself on the pitch, like Stevie Me on steroids. Look at his Hollywood passes - half the time a simple pass would be better but he loves the attention (ironic I know). Can't fault him for the 2012 Final but so many times people have tried to tell me that his inherent faults weren't important because his talents (of which he has many) compensated for them....but they don't. He basically embodies everything I dislike about some modern sportspeople. Team sports are about self-sacrifice and doing your job, even if it doesn't get all the glory....that isn't David Luiz. Watch fucking tape of attackers and learn how to mark rather than practicing fucking free kicks. You're a defender. But less people notice an inability to mark attackers than those who will laud a 30 yard screamer (which he really didn't score that many of). What's going to get you on the front page of a newspaper??? Oh, and that post-match interview. This is the translation I've read so I apologise if it's incorrect. “I just wanted to give joy to the people who suffer so much. Unfortunately we could not, sorry everyone, all Brazilians. I just wanted to see people smiling. Everyone knows how important it was for me. I wanted to see everyone happy. [Germany] were better prepared. It is a day of great sadness and a lot of learning too.” Four uses of the word 'I' or 'Me', one use of the word 'we'. Sums him up.

How many matches is that exactly? I'll be kind and include every match up to the loss away to Newcastle (even including Everton away where he barely featured and Spurs away where he was average)....that's 13 matches out of 47 appearances. Then there's the odd match after that where he actually did well. Is that it? That's the start of the season we're talking about? He's had more chances than anyone else at this club. He was the number one choice in his position such that two of his main competitors were actually sold as the season went on. Mourinho said he was his number 10 and for a while he actually stepped up, but it was so frustrating watching him this year. I've watched that performance against Southampton far too many times because I needed to reassure myself that he was actually capable of such things. I even got excited about his two phenomenal crosses in the Croatia game and the tackle that set up Neymar's goal....and that was it. That was the highlight of his World Cup. I don't want him to fail, but if he does I couldn't give a fuck. We'll make our money back and move on. I just want to see him really man up and take control in that first game at Burnley, but the last image I saw of him wasn't a man. It was a little boy who looked like he'd had his heart ripped out and NOTHING I've ever seen of Oscar suggests he has the strength to come back from that.

Which is completely untrue considering he's been he for two seasons, made over 100 appearances for us and actually regressed over the last six months. In fact the supporters have been remarkably patient with him, just like they were with Torres for his first 100 or so games.

I'm quite happy to go through all his truly good matches over the last couple of years if you want, but of the 100+ games I'd be surprised if you got many more than a dozen truly top performances. That's not to say he hasn't had those matches. He helped transform the game against Southampton and scored the winner against Stoke (his only two great games in 2014 for us, maybe you could include the Arsenal match too) and he was our most important player up to maybe October (if I'm being generous). But that was his second season and whilst Hazard progressed, Oscar actually fell into a slump. One of the main excuses offered was that he was saving himself for the World Cup, but now because he's been bang average in that the argument is that Scolari got his tactics wrong. I know he's got a cute face and people just want to hug him and snuggle him and blow raspberries on his belly, but he is a man. The constant stream of excuses needs to end eventually and he needs to start actually performing on the pitch.

Borrowed from redcafe.

You've had me and others explain this before.

We've still got Stamford the Lion. Honestly I don't miss him in the slightest. To me he can be a very selfish player who makes everything about himself rather than simply doing his job. Anyone in doubt of that needs to look at his heat map from the Germany game. Versatility-wise he's overrated. He's a defender we couldn't trust to play to use in defence so he was essentially a defensive midfielder. That was the only position Mourinho trusted him in.

I've defended him but it's unfair to call it a kneejerk reaction. Yes he kept Pirlo quiet (for 74 minutes) and scored two great goals... on 19th September 2012!! You can probably count the number of truly good games he's had on two hands. Southampton away on January 2nd was probably the last one. That's just not good enough, although he rarely neglects his defensive duties. Of the six World Cup games, Oscar put in the type of performance you'd expect in maybe one (Croatia). Is one good game in six much different from what he's put up for us? He needs to prove a hell of a lot next season, but even if he doesn't we can probably still make our money back and maybe a bit more.

.

Nice to see you shitting on young players and the way we develop them. Maybe our young players should pretend to be older for some perverse reason, eh?

I remember watching the Sunderland game and thinking it was the perfect example of how players sometimes get a very small window to establish themselves at a top club. He was possibly on his way to cementing that CDM spot but the injury robbed him of the chance and just shows how much luck plays a role in a player's career.

Also, he's got a proper striker ahead of him and two top midfielders behind him. He's got no excuses next season.

He's a great talent who has been poor for almost six months. He needs to actually step up next season or he'll be sold and we'll bring through another top attacking talent. Not worth getting to bent out of shape over. I feel no great affinity for the lad so if he goes it's no skin off my nose. I've defended him a fair amount and now he's actually got to start producing the goods on the pitch.

So you're saying that David Luiz wasn't at fault for the goals? He made individual mistakes starting with him losing Mueller for the first goal and finishing with him losing Schuerrle for the seventh. The team was bad but it was individual mistakes that also let them down and Luiz made plenty of them. If someone can explain why he was just walking back to his position for the third goal then I'd be amazed. The weird thing is that some people are surprised by this performance when anyone who has watched him knows that he is capable of making these little mistakes at any time. He's actually a pretty terrible man-marker who relies far too much on his pace to catch the strikers that he loses in the first place. He lost Jelavic in the first game too and managed to lose De Jong and Anichebe in consecutive games for us (in the few times he was picked after November). His long passing is also hit and miss and notable only for the sheer frequency with which he attempts long balls. What I dislike about him the most though is that he's all about himself. He jumps out of defence (as he did for the fourth goal I think) leaving holes behind him that expose his fellow defenders. He hit's diagonal balls to the wings that actually put his teammates in worse positions. He's a show-pony who wants to feature on highlight reels rather than actually just do his job simply and help the guy next to him and last night he was well and truly exposed. Good riddance to him.

Nuff said.

Actually I quite clearly said he wasn't 'complete dogshit'. But I'll agree that he was the best Brazilian player out there. He was head and shoulders above them, a real colossus in their team. He made Paulinho and Fernandinho look like bad footballers which was an amazing achievement. He even made Oscar look like the type of player who hasn't played well in 6 months. It's amazing that this thread isn't buzzing with praise for a player who was great for twenty a minutes in a team that was thrashed 7-1. Life is so unfair sometimes.

20 year olds are men fyi. And that's literally all I can be bothered to say to you on the subject.

Managed 4 shots, only 1 of which was on target. Made no tackles or interceptions, a couple of key passes. In the context of that Brazil team, he was better than Paulinho and Fernandinho who were utterly awful. So you're saying the bar is set so low for Ramires now that he should be praised for not being complete dogshit?? If he put in a performance like that for us he would get stick as he usually does when he puts in performances like that.

It's a shame we didn't wait until after the World Cup to sell him because we could've probably got even more money because the abiding feeling after this tournament is that he's an awesome defender. People criticising his defending should look at the free-kick he scored in the last round and his efforts in singing the national anthem (both verses!!) before EVERY match.

Mata didn't put in a request, nor did De Bruyne put in a formalised request. Lukaku put in a transfer request too late in the window to properly shop him and maybe Jose wanted to give him a chance to mature - he hasn't. The difference between you and I is how we view people's character and how their actions reflect them. First and foremost I'm a believer in people taking responsibility for what they do. You may not believe that or you may be inclined to give Lukaku a free pass for whatever reason. But the guy was faced with a challenge, although not an impossible challenge and one that was accompanied with chances, yet he requested to leave this club for he perceived to be his own good. That's selfish in my opinion, but it's also a little cowardly. He's also said the wrong things over and over again which is why so many Chelsea supporters simply don't care for him anymore. But there's no point in discussing this further. Some people I can't talk to about David Luiz, some people I can't talk to about Lukaku. C'est la vie.