The only place to be

Mikel or Ramires.

Then you'll be happy to know that Torres and Sutton were both bought when they were 26, whilst Fleck was 27 - Falcao is 26 (27 in February). On the plus side, Pep Guardiola is a big fan of Falcao.

But in the role I see Fellaini playing, he actually has to drop back into defence and become a third centre-half at times, like Busquets at Barca. Don't get me wrong, I would have loved us to pick up Cabaye a few years ago for £5 million but I think the club have a type of player in mind for certain positions (look at Chalobah and Loftus-Cheek, or even Ake in the reserves/academy) and Fellaini fits that.

One of my criticisms of him was that he didn't seem to score 'important' goals, but he seemed to be improving in that area ever so slightly. But the simple fact is that not all goals are equal and that's illustrated by two players; Lampard and Kalou. The number of goals that Lampard scored that were either the first or winning goal is astounding, whereas Kalou often came on (especially under Ancelotti if memory serves) when we were already a few goals up and he'd add a few more. It's one of the reasons Lampard is probably our greatest ever player.

I can't be the only pessimistic arsehole thinking this could be Torres Mk.2? Or Shevchenko Mk.3? Or Sutton Mk.4? Or Fleck Mk. 5?

See I'd prefer a defensive midfielder who gets stuck in and dominates the ball. You can stick Luiz or Oscar alongside him if you want a distributor but I think we need to shore things up first, and yes that means that I essentially want him to replace Mikel although part of me wonders what Mikel would be like if he had less defensive duties. Cabaye and Moutinho would be great options alongside someone like that, although personally I think we have enough and I'd also be inclined to give Josh a go there.

Well there's your problem. You can't do that. As much as I dislike Torres, your analysis of his goals is rather pathetic. The Reading goal for example was the goal that put us 3-2 up. The goal against Arsenal was the first one, and a very good one at that. The one at Norwich was the one that drew us level after going behind. They were vital goals and that's one of the things he wasn't really doing before, but he still isn't doing it enough. And on a 'purely mathematical basis' wouldn't we have exactly four less points, not three?

I can't speak for everyone, but I want to play him as a DM based on his performances as a DM. When we were first linked with him, he was showing signs of being a real star in that position but Everton have moved him forward to fill a need.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I think Roman decided he would put up with it for 6 months. Let's be honest, the short-term thinking of the first decade of Roman's ownership has left us in a bit of shit. The Champions League win papered over a lot of cracks in terms of a dearth of players aged about 25 who we simply never bought in and we've still not replaced Mourinho. The Club World Cup might have bought Rafa a bit of peace (and he's definitely got to beat Leeds) but now his job is simply to get top four and then leave. This last 18 months from AVB's appointment to the JT stuff, and then the Mikel stuff has been pretty awful with some real high spots. This summer needs to see some real changes and that may include the last remnants of Mourinho's team leaving (even JT). In an ideal world I'd like a clean break at the top of the club and there is an ideal man for that who would help our image but this is complete pie in the sky thinking - Seb Coe.

Glad he's out when we go up there - could've seen him giving Mikel a hell of a time. £20 million for him would be a good price but I can't see Everton going for that. That's less than we paid for Essien, Luiz, Shaun Wright-Phillips and Carvalho and only £4 million more than we paid for Mikel.

Grant had his moments where he was booed by the crowd too. Think Arsenal at home, even though his changes actually worked. My point about him is that he was seen as nothing but a puppet for Roman to pick the team through. The thing that him and Di Matteo had in common is that they both left the key players to do their own thing and in both instances they reverted to the type of tactics they'd been taught under Mourinho. Robbie's achievements were amazing, but we had a healthy dose of luck in the semis and the final. The Rafa appointment makes a lot of sense in context. Yes he's hated by the fans but I think Roman's thinking was that he'd put a fan favourite in charge (full-time) less than 6 months earlier and he wasn't happy with the results. On paper, Benitez is a logical choice too. He was available short-term, he'd had experience of the Premier League and his achievements stack up pretty well against most managers. As a person to steady the ship for 6 months I think it makes more sense than the Grant appointment. If Robbie had lost the final (like Grant) then Rafa would've been in here from the summer. One penalty goes in, one penalty misses and everything changes. Imagine if we'd won in Moscow and Grant was made manager full-time.

After what he did to Shawcross, he deserves a medal. But seriously (because I was joking), it was indefensible but it happens every now and again. I remember Spackers twatting Keown once which was completely out of character but players sometimes see the red mist. To be honest it wasn't much more than a love tap.

I'm all for buying great young English talent - I'm just not convinced that Butland comes under that category. At the moment he looks like he could be the next Simonsen/Foster/Carson/Robinson and get a lot of press simply because he's young and English. Courtois actually looks like he could be the real deal, has played at the highest level and we already own him. Personally I'd be more inclined to sell Cech, which I'm sure some will look on like it's heresy but it's got to be an option.

You want him to play left-back? I'd be sad if he doesn't retire here, but he's got to accept a new role and I'm not entirely sure what that is. Personally I don't want to see arguably the greatest player we've had sitting on the bench and getting a few minutes in cup games and at the end of league games. Also we need to look at the youth players that he would be taking minutes from.

The Grant appointment was always baffling because no-one really knew who he was. It was vindication of a lot of rivals who spouted shit about Roman picking the team and he's proved himself to be a pretty average manager. Strangely we still managed to reach a Champions League Final and only lost on penalties. It makes you wonder how good Robbie Di Matteo actually was considering he managed the same feat a few years later. The Rafa appointment isn't baffling or absurd in the slightest. It actually makes a lot of sense from Roman's point of view when you look at his track record, his availability/the lack of other options and his relationship with Torres. Yes the fans hated him but Roman decided that he wouldn't make decisions based on that (which the Robbie hiring was) so he took a bit of short-term 'discomfort' until the guy he really wanted was available. Big Phil was flavour of the month so it wasn't that absurd. In hindsight it was a major mistake though.

Lampard isn't Lampard anymore.

Just to balance out the in the other thread, how about a top 5 best moments as a Chelsea fan? 1. Gav Peacock scoring against United 93/94 at the Bridge. United were awesome then and we beat them. Sure we got lucky (Cantona's long-distance effort bouncing off the pitch onto the crossbar and I think Kharine decided to head an effort off the line instead of catch it because he thought it was a backpass - could be a different game). 2. Munich 3. Mourinho's first title. =4. Barcelona, 3-0 up at half-time in whatever year Tore Andre Flo played (98?). Unbelievable. =4. Barcelona 3-0 in twenty minutes. The best I think we've ever looked. 5. Chelsea-Liverpool, 4-2 FA Cup 97, Hughes, Vialli, Zola....Sparky comes on at 2-0 down and changes it....Hansen, what's the score....that's the game where we won the trophy. special mention to Robbie in the final. So many other things could've gone on that list though. Spencer in Vienna doing a Weah, Chelsea beating Spurs 4-3 in 93/94, Chelsea beating Spurs 6-1, Chelsea beating Spurs 5-1, Chelsea beating Spurs in the Makita Cup because that thing counts right? Paul Furlong scoring with his arse, Gullit's debut at Gillingham, Gronjkaer scoring on the last day.....

I've got to say that reading some of these lists, some people really don't know how lucky they are to support the club at this point in time. I grew up around fans who fought to keep this club alive so losing on a penalty shoot-out in the Champions League really wasn't that bad. But.... 1. FA Cup Final 1994. David Ellery, you massive cunt. 2. Craig Burley's amazing through ball for David Beckham - special mention to the United cunts on the way back from Villa Park. 3. Losing to Millwall in the FA Cup in 1995. 4. Liverpool in the Champions League - both results were kickers. 5. Robbie being sacked/Rafa being hired. But I've got to be honest, since I've been going I've been exceedingly lucky. I've seen some of the greatest players in the world pull on the Chelsea shirt and I've seen some of the greatest teams play against us. Sure there have been some shit moments, but supporting Chelsea is brilliant.

It's banter. Trust me, they've heard worse.

Menacing words? Look, you support the club in your way and I'll support it in mine. I think looking for ways to suggest I'm a better fan is pointless when there's no circumstance in which I wouldn't support Chelsea.

Leeds Scum.

So you'd support another team over Chelsea?? Like I've mentioned in other threads, seeing this forum has exposed me to a type of 'Chelsea fan' I've not really encountered from actually going to the club and supporting them. I suppose it's the downside of being successful.

How about you just support one team? I vote it be your Brazilian team.

It makes me laugh. Corinthians supporters coming onto a Chelsea forum to give some stick. Did anyone go on the Corinthians forum? Do they even have one? I assume there was a fear of kidnapping or being raped if any of us ventured onto it.

This guy could be our keeper for the next 15 years. Maybe it's time to look at cashing in on Cech and building longer-term. We'll have a new manager in the summer and the rest of Mourinho's team will be on their way (Lamps, Drogba, Cole....maybe JT), maybe we should just start with a clean slate.