The only place to be

So they just leave? You realise they have contracts and aren't massive cunts don't you? Well with that type of support from loyal fans like you it's definitely not going to work. I'm not asking for a whole team of homegrown players, but I would like to see Chalobah, Courtois, Lukaku, De Bruyne and a couple of others given a shot. Because you'll never win anything with kids right? How the fuck is that a 'best case scenario'? :lol2:

Can't disagree. We would stand to lose money. Again, can't disagree. We wouldn't become a small club overnight though. We need the tourists and the overseas fans to buy our shit but they aren't the priority in my view. They never will be because they aren't what I equate supporting Chelsea with - they're figures on a balance sheet. I will always place an emphasis on the people in the stadium who get behind the team and have done for many years. I'm not going to apologise for that. That's certainly a possibility but we've seen Roman be more restrained over the last couple of years and I would hope that would continue. People like to characterise him as 'crazy' or naive ayetnd nothing I've heard or read comes close to that. I think the problem is that we might just use these youngsters for cup games rather than trust them in league matches. They're young players and they will make mistakes but you have to stick by them when they do. We have this bizarre notion that youngsters have to be 100% ready which is completely absurd. No-one is ever 100% ready and you have to be prepared for slip-ups along the way. It's the way they bounce back that will determine their success or failure. I followed Chelsea to Tromso - it's never shit in my opinion. I think we're capable of both but the league has to be the most important. Fair enough.

Fair points. We need overseas fans to buy our t-shirts but that isn't the be all and end all of football. Because you can't win anything with kids? Which top players would leave by the way? I agree that we need a playmaker and a third striker but spending £50 million on a striker doesn't guarantee results. I have faith in our scouting system to find us the players we need and we don't need to be in the CL to get them all. I think we can win the league with just the addition of a DLP. I think we need a defender and a third striker but I honestly don't think this squad is that far away from being a top, top team. The key addition will be a manager and hopefully that will be Jose. If he doesn't want to come because we're not a Champions League team then he's not the man we thought he was and it will be his loss. We are on the cusp of great things at this club and we just need the impetus to have faith and take a chance. Missing out on the Champions League for one season (which isn't that long in a lifetime of supporting a club) whilst building something that will outlive us all is not the worst thing in the world. I think those who think it is are probably younger fans in all honesty, and that's not a sleight just an observation.

Thank you.

These are actually pertinent points. Whatever happens, we need to make changes but I don't know if we do that if we maintain the status quo. Make no mistake, the ideal situation is that we qualify for the CL and make the right adjustments but I have reservations whether we'll do that. Missing out on the CL for a year would force us to do that whilst also giving us some breathing space to do so. If we can continue the progress we've made whilst achieving a top four finish then that would be ideal. Ultimately though, I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world if we missed out. The club would still be there, the loyal supporters would still turn up and every other week we'd get to go to see the greatest team in the world play. That's what football is to supporters and as long as that still exists, then we're very lucky fans.

A good point. Hummels is a great player but he does like to bring the ball out when we need someone who's a bit more utilitarian and basic.

I don't think the points I've made have been stupid. They come from a place of caring about the club I've supported for a long time and looking at what the future could bring. If you want to discuss these points then I'm happy to do that but dismissing them as stupid without explanation isn't the men discuss things. Other people have managed that - if you can't then don't respond.

There's no need to be rude. Focus less on the insulting and more on making cogent points.

It's not in my opinion. I think it could be the start of something great where we do things properly and build a sustainable future for the club. If we don't qualify for the CL, we can still make a push for the league next season and that is the most important thing isn't it? To be the best team in your country? That to me is the measure of success next season, not just being able to go to CL matches. People keep moaning (incorrectly) that we could become like Arsenal - that to me is the attitude that caused Arsenal's troubles.

Amazing level of discourse. Whatever happens this season, I think we're going to be making a title push next season. Look at the players we have on loan, look at the players we have in the squad and we're only a couple of players away from being contenders. We need the right manager but for a while now we've been doing the right thing as a club. What we need is that impetus or push to put it into practice. But because we've been in the CL people have been satisfied. So what changes this summer? You actually make some good points, but I actually think missing out on the CL gives us all some breathing room. It becomes a true period of reassessment when we can look at everything we've done and examine what we can do better going forward. If we qualify then everyone breathes a sigh of relief and gears up to do the same again. We look at players like Fellaini rather than taking the time to ask whether players like Chalobah could be integrated. We sign Falcao rather than take a risk on Lukaku. The most frustrating thing about our NextGen success was seeing Arsenal fans who know their stuff admit they we have real quality in our academy but that we'll never see them in the first team.....and they've got a point.

Hopefully Mata and Hazard back for this game, a morale-boosting win and then rest everyone against Rubin Kazan. Then bring the first-team back against Sunderland.

Doesn't he love this club? Love means never having to say I'm Sorry.....But We're Not In The Champions League This Season. Doesn't it? Chelsea is a big club. We pay lots of money. I agree. It would be bad, but getting up from a knockdown is what winners do.

If we didn't qualify for the CL, I think we retain our current squad almost entirely. I think it forces us to prune some of the dead wood in the current squad. I think it forces us to use the players we already have rather than simply buy expensive ornaments. That in turn might lead to us building a team, something we haven't done for almost 3 years now. I think Mourinho actually loves this club enough to want to build something even if we aren't in the CL in his first season. I think we can mount a serious title challenge under these conditions.

If you ignore the reality of our situation then you might have a point. So we pretend he loves the club whilst also saying he wouldn't join us if we weren't in the CL? This club is bigger than one man. It's bigger than one competition. People need to have a bit more faith in the club they profess to support.

United aren't that much better than us and yes I absolutely think we could mount a serious title challenge with the likes of Lukaku, KDB and Chalobah alongside our current squad and a couple of signings. What I don't do is throw 15 names at the screen as a solution. I don't disagree. He was never a beast. What you're saying is that Mikel needs everyone around him to be at the top of their game to make him look good - we have a word for that: PASSENGER. I've said this for so long - he doesn't make the player next to him better. He's not a leader, he's not going to put the team on his back and we don't need that type of player in the squad. I asked you this earlier but now I'm going to ask you again. When Mikel is in the wall for the free-kick yesterday, does his head go towards the ball or does he turn it away? Does he stick his head in the way of the ball? YES OR NO?

I think that's unlikely. They have contracts and one season out of the CL wouldn't see a massive rush for the door in my opinion. Will you throw your season ticket renewal in the bin? I'm not going to say our fans have become spoilt little brats but you do realise that Spurs and Arsenal both finished above us last year don't you? Again, this doesn't diminish us as a club - I don't go to Chelsea matches so I can brag on Facebook that my team is better than someone else's. I do it because that's what I've always done. I love the club because it's part of me and looking at our long-term future I'm not sure that a big of a wake-up call is the worst thing for us. Do you honestly think Lukaku is going to leave if we finish 5th? Chalobah? De Bruyne? Mata? Azpi? Courtois? The Europa League campaign might actually give us a chance to properly blood the youngsters too. This is Mr Mourinho who loves us, Mr Mourinho who adores us and who would be coming home to his beloved Chelsea? You're saying that his love for us extends is contingent upon us being in the CL? See this is the bizarre schizophrenia that has engulfed this club in so many ways. We don't want to be the best we can be for a decade if that means us having a bit of short-term pain. We don't want to have to suffer our friends laughing at us for the short-term even if it could be positive in the long-term. Bayern showed that adversity can in fact lead to a new way of doing things, a better way. We haven't done things the right way for too long and people will be happy to keep on making the same mistakes so long as they get to hear the Champions League music in September. Fuck it....let's just limp over the line, blame everything on Benitez and sign Falcao. We have to do whatever it takes to make sure some kid in Bolivia wants to buy a knock-off Chelsea t-shirt.

First response Yes the CL has been the be all and end all of our Chelsea lives for the last 15 or so years. Yes it gave us the best night of most of our Chelsea lives in May of last year, and many others besides. But would missing out on the top four this year actually be the death knell that we have been conditioned to think it would be? Might I suggest that our relentless assault on 'big ears' has actually been to our detriment in some ways, that our method for acquiring success over Roman's reign has given little thought to what happens the moment the Champions League anthem stops playing and that we've been trying to do repairs on the run rather than having a long-term plan for sustainable success? Bear in mind we were 6th in the league last year. We sing Champions of Europe but were we the best team in Europe? Were we the best team in London? Again, some of these things are considered off-limits by some people but were Liverpool the best team in Europe in 2005 or were they just a lucky 'cup team' with a witless buffoon in charge? Now the first thing most people will say is 'the money, the money!!' and that's a fair point. I'm sure it's factored into our long-term financial planning but next year does see the Premier League tv money increase a fairly ridiculous amount and we do have a billionaire owner so one would expect us to keep the lights on. What may change are out transfer prospects, which brings me to my first major plus point. No Falcao. I think it would be safe to say that signing £50 million strikers would be off the table but doesn't that just remind us of some of the absurdly irresponsible things we did in pursuit of success? Yes he won us a corner in the final but really? Falcao is a luxury at best and another millstone around our necks at worst. He's a fantastic player but we have a young player in Lukaku who might be the real deal if given a chance, which brings me nicely to my next point. The youth might finally get a shot. Make no mistake, Chelsea operates in a cauldron where players have no room to learn and must be capable of winning a Champions League medal straight away. Without the CL we might finally look at the young players we're bringing through either in the academy or our scouting network and give them a shot. We might actually try and build a team rather than keep the one we built in 2005 together with gaffa tape and expensive ornaments. Talking about that night in May brings me to my next point, and regards our opposition that night.... In 2007 Bayern finished 4th in their league and missed out on the CL. Missing out on one year doesn't mean you're out for life. Bayern turned a negative into a positive and re-examined what it was they were trying to do as a team. They had some of the same problems as us in regards ageing players and they went on to win the league the following year, and well I'm sure we're all aware of where they are now. Similarly Juventus were relegated after their scandal yet they have come back as strong as ever, in a new stadium no less. Now I'm sure I've missed lots of points and I'm sure they'll be pointed out to me, but it is a Sunday morning and I didn't want this to be too long for all our sakes. I just wanted to ask a question that might become pertinent in time.

That role requires a sense of responsibility and leadership in my opinion. Look at the likes of Deschamps, Makelele, Wise and even Petit. Those were men who gave everything for the cause - you can't even answer the question about what Mikel did in the wall honestly. Why is that? Number of appearances means fuck all. Plenty of average players have accumulated large numbers of appearances at top clubs and not been missed when they were sold. I have faith in youngsters like Lukaku and Chalobah because I see something in their character that I admire. Beyond the physical and technical elements of their game they have the right attitude to the game and that is what wins you games. You just throw out names of players you think we should sign like this is a videogame - it isn't. This club is a family and you need men to carry you to success. Everything in a team is linked. The midfield is the key to everything in my opinion - they need to shield the defence whilst controlling the tempo of the game and they did neither.

The reason we've kept switching is because no-one (not Rami, not Lamps, not Mikel) has put their name on a shirt and given consistent performances. As much as I criticise Rami, he's been the best of the bunch and his work ethic and commitment is faultless, but he falls down technically too often. Mikel has the physical and technical gifts you dream about a midfielder having, but I don't trust him. I don't think he makes the players around him better, but he has nice stats. He isn't a leader and I think you need that in that position. Lamps just isn't a double pivot midfielder. There's not a player in the squad who should be immune from criticism, but too many people stick by their favourites. Maybe it's just a blind spot they have, maybe it's a fear of admitting you were wrong (I've admitted I may have been wrong about issues on here and a couple of members have tried to mock me for that - ignore them because only a small-minded boy thinks fallibility is something to be ashamed of). I don't think it's wrong for people to support the players but sometimes you have to question a players' quality. And there have been plenty of average players who have made 300 appearances for top teams. There's no shame in that, but there's no reason not to acknowledge these players' limitations and move on from them.

Can I ask you one question - the free-kick today, when Mikel was in the wall. Does he move his head towards the ball? Simple question - yes or no?

I'll say Leif this month. He says some things I agree with but he also isn't afraid to say things that aren't going to be popular and get him a load of likes. That almost certainly means he won't win it but quite frankly who cares? I can actually bring to mind a few points he's made which is why he deserves a shout.

Benitez is the scapegoat. Torres is the scapegoat. Mikel is simply a decent player who we can't rely on when the pressure is on. It's not his fault, it's not something malicious that he chooses to do, it's simply his character. If you actually watch the United game, they drop off and don't put pressure on which is the exact opposite thing teams should do. Southampton did is perfectly today and Mikel crumbled. When Steaua put pressure on us in the second leg, he gave the ball away a number of times and Steaua should have capitalised on it. Make no mistake, Lampard does him no favours but Mikel is simply someone we can't rely upon going forward. Fortunately we have a real prospect in Chalobah who I believe will succeed not because he has the physical tools like Mikel, or the technical tools like Mikel (actually I'd say his distribution is better already) but because he has the mental tools that Mikel simply doesn't have. That position in the team requires consistent leadership - that's something no-one has ever said Mikel has. Does he have a role in the squad? Absolutely. He can provide bench cover and maybe shore things up then we're defending a lead, but he's no more than that.

How about nobody rises to this rancid bait today? Everyone knows we were shit and there's enough discord without having some troll come in on the wind-up so if we starve him of the oxygen of vitriol he looks to elicit, he'll eventually die.

Up until the Swansea League Cup game, I thought he'd been one of our more solid players. But since those two errors (which I defended at the time as one-offs) he's dropped off considerably and although he's not the only one it's been fairly noticeable with him. His versatility and the years of good service should see him survive the summer but he really needs to buck his ideas up because Kalas and Omeruo will be snapping at his heels.

Lampard is one of three players to feature in both games against Southampton (2-2 draw at home, 2-1 loss away) and QPR (0-0 draw away and 1-0 loss at home). In fact by my reckoning of the last six games we've lost, the only TWO players to start each of them has been Ivanovic and..... Lamps. (Southampton away, Man City away, Steaua away, Newcastle away, Swansea home, QPR home). That doesn't include the Man United FA Cup game that he came off in when we were 2-0 down, before coming back to draw 2-2.