robsblubot

Nonsense, fabregas would provide the munch needed steel they(Arsenal) need in midfield.........

well he's kinda cute ...

Well when you start Mikel and Matic in the CM role we are less likely to score goals - not really surprising is it? Sometimes stats don't lie. Unfortunately the only dynamic CM we've got can't pass the football at all.

he considers it for about a sec then he remembers the number of zeroes on his paycheck.

Agreed that he has to play like he did against Sunderland far more often and in my mind that's still not a creative #10 but more on an industrious one - say Willian. Now asking what a player wants to do means very little. The #10 doesn't have a definition as a role. Even famous #10s of the past have had different characteristics. Maradona would have been more of a CM these days while Pele a striker. Zidane was pretty much a CM like Modric is and also a #10. Hazard told Jose he plays best centralized. He was/is wrong. His style of play belongs in the wings.

One interesting thing that happens here often is that our very expensive coaching staff is completely ignored when we discuss team and lineups, which is silly especially now with a new manager and a temp one at that. This team was the coaching staffs not his. And he will be listening to them again and again so I do t expect drastic changes.

yeah ! like I wrote on the other thread that would even help the midfield too! a guy who can tackle and intercept high up the pitch and carry the ball with confidence (and technique) forward, joining the midfield. The other one to cover we already have (Zouma).

not necessarily a tackle, but merely standing your ground - especially inside the box - is the way to go.

Yes, you can say that CMs are the midfield in system like 442/4411/352, but not in the 4231.... Yes, our problem is in midfield, and no Fabregas and Matic are not the midfield. They are maybe 50% responsible, but in the system we play the AMs should be helping solidify the middle and they haven't been able to do that. You can go even further and say that our old school defenders also aren't able to help the midfield and remain quite isolated - at least in comparison to sides that go for total football (barca and bayern).

He may have done the job, but was it a job in need of doing?I see Fabregas and Mikel in a very similar way. Mikel is too much of a short passer (and nothing else); long balls are far more important for the role. He's also calm, composed and slow, which is also not what the role requires - DMs need to be dynamic and decisive. They need pace to recover because the very defensive ones are essentially defenders playing in the middle. Fabregas is the polar opposite. He's dynamic, but has no strength or power (Mikel has plenty of strength). He cannot tackle to save his life, but he adds a lot of creativity if you can afford having him there. I personally think you can't (have Fabregas in a CM), but I also think you cannot have Mikel there either. At least top top teams should aim for having better than both... but can't really say we are a top team at the moment...

So, for the same of argument let's say he did play well - though i still find difficult to see it (different discussion). Now, the big question, concerning this match (Watford), is why did we play freaking Watford @ the bridge with both Mikel and Matic in the second half? Just check their attacking stats. Having them both on the pitch makes us LESS likely to score. Yes, we should have more of the ball and be able to defend better but we were losing the match at the time...

More like coaching staff loves him, but not so much the managers. Mikel has never played less than under Jose. Even considering AFCON weaker opposition, Mikel does play better for Nigeria and it is also because he doesn't play as a DM. I have watched many DMs in my life and the best ones were like Roy Keane. They may be more technically gifted, like Viera, or less, like Keane, but they all bust their balls tracking back and joining the defense when the play was past them. Mikel just does not do that. He seems to be a very specialized player with few virtues, which means he needs a team that play to his strengths - like Nigeria does. And TBH he's more praised here than by Nigeria fans - who after all are used to the likes of Okocha leading their side. Their expectations for their #10 were/are higher I guess. Back to Oscar, maybe the point is that I've never seen him as a #10 and neither do Chelsea - since he wears #8. I see him as a more industrious player who can contribute playing alongside more creative/attacking minded ones... like Hazard or KDB. That doesn't excuse his long bad patches though, so again, I am not disagreeing that at this time Oscar may be insufficient, but rather that he may also get unfairly criticized for a role that isn't really his.

Fair enough and it's one way to see it. I for one believe that it's very difficult to get the most of the players when they have no competition. It can be done, but doesn't last. Is Diego Costa afraid of losing his position? Is Matic? Jose played Matic in every freaking game since he signed him. Then people, sometimes the same ones, complain that the young don't play. Well Mikel 28/29 yo needs minutes to, so he will play ahead of RLC and others. Logically, this whole thing makes little sense in my mind... but I guess controversy is good for TC. @LDN Blue posted Mikel's stats on defending in his thread a week ago or so - whether he "does the job" is also debatable.

That's really not my point though. I am not questioning whether he is good enough or not... just that in my head we cannot call Oscar 'shit' and at the same time say Mikel "does a job". Neither player is 'shit' but I personally think that Oscar is FAR closer to "good enough" than most other players who get a pass for one reason or another. Especially considering he's still fairly young. @LDN Blue can't agree with that really. However weak, however poor Fabregas may be - I am not a fan - he's twice the player Mikel is.

They are not shit. They are all good and decent players who may or may not be good enough for us. There is also a. Question of style. I personally find interesting that we qualify a player with "does a job" while another, who is far more valuable and sought after, gets in the garbage bin.

Things I've learned on talk Chelsea: mikel and Cahill are great players while fabregas and Oscar are shit.

Mikel was absolutely fantastic today! I honestly don't know what was more impressing: his one-touch back passes or his elegant running in the dead zone. The highlight of the day however was his very good shot in front of the goal and completely unmarked. Just needed more luck.

yes. My point is that the coaching staff feel the same way and they are the ones informing Hiddink. Ppl tend to blame too much on the manager when much is shared withe the coaching staff. I think Iva will start for sure and would like to see less of Mikel and more of RLC, but Mikel is in the roster - beats me - so he needs minutes too.

Jose was gone and we still see mikel coming on ...

I was wrong. Considering what our current crop of players is made of reckon Adebayor will fit right in...

Do not care much for Mourinho as a manager and yet feel the sacking could've been avoided by the club somehow - getting the players to get their shit together, professionally for example. And believe this empowers the players way too much... every sacking does esp in these circumstances. Now, it doesn't matter anymore does it? Whether he manages United or not. I am really for that change promised some time ago, which was something Jose has always been incapable of proving. The prob is that the tampon manager is also certainly not able to provide, esp considering his late performances, so it is going to take a while.

He was energetic, strong, and decisive - did not look his age at all. Most importantly he displayed some really good footwork in a number of times - good technique too!

Agree on singling out players which is very difficult and prone to err. For ex, I am convinced that Oscar was another strong dissident as were many other squad players. The entire squad was not giving 100% for a number of reasons and Jose IMO was one of them. Which is a bit ironic since he built this small squad which makes losing players all the more damaging (no hungry replacements). Concerning the actual quote, disagree there because I feel it's irrelevant. Not doing what is instructed by the manager is exactly how players get managers sacked. I am not paying too much attention to the word used, but what it meant. I honestly thought the players looked happy, freer in the last match, which is far from surprising. make no mistakes though, this establishes a precedent which empowers players. It's a very difficult balance to strike and I feel the club has been historically favoring the players every time. BTW, I don't think Fabregas was a 'rat' - never thought much of him though.

Fair enough on the position concerning that he may have deserved the sack and that it may have been needed. However, I find any consideration about whether the players were against him extremely naive to be honest. We are not basing our idea that players wanted him gone on tabloid stories, but in the abundant evidence on the pitch as well as from Jose himself. Don't actually remember a manager saying that he had been "betrayed by his players." When I heard that I thought he was pretty much gone and if he still had some support from some of the players, that was sure lost after that remark. Once again, players don't have to go to the press, complain to a friend, or leak information. All they have to do is not give 100% in training and/or matches. I believe in continuity in football, and changing managers as often as we do makes no fucking sense to me. Now the tampon manager comes and who can he sign? Would it be his signing or the luminary Emenalo's? Then we buy a physical player who is not the style say Guardiola (or whoever the next manager may be) wants. Can't see any silverware coming our way any time soon.

So?! Mikel does that (jogs back) all the time... I won't take anything for granted and we've indeed played very weak opposition at home. Yet other players did not play as well as Oscar did against the same folks. Oscar has been so poor lately that I am actually hopeful he was fed up with Jose, because that means he is not as poor as he has been.