Jase

RIP, Ray.

I'm inclined to agree that Azpi is not a leader or that he's not necessarily the type of person who can inspire - although that depends on whether others even care - but in his defence, he's one of the few who constantly instructs/directs the back four in defensive situations or has a go at someone if they slack off in a defensive situation. On top of that, Moses revealed some time ago that Azpi was his biggest influence since moving to the right wing back, helping and guiding him to settle into the role. But whether Azpi is a leader here isn't the issue. It's the fact that very few players seem bothered about playing for the club right now. Some are giving their all while others constantly have their eyes elsewhere and the constant negativity created by Conte can't be helping either. The main reason why our previous squad was so successful was because there were many leaders. It wasn't only because we had Terry or Lampard or Drogba. They were all leaders, they had the character and the 'balls' to not only win when things are going well but also fight hard to get results when things aren't going well. This squad just doesn't have those. If we analyze the current squad and see who has those characteristics mentioned, it'll be probably be just 2-3 players at most.

Hell is gonna break loose if we let them do the fucking double over us!

Aren't you contradicting yourself a little, Tomo? You constantly mentioned how stats - notably the goals scored and assists - shouldn't be used to judge Hazard's contribution but here you are, using stats from one match to defend him.

Shocking is an understatement. The bottom 5 right there are the current bottom 5 in the league!

He has been here for 6 years and how long more are people gonna put his lack of consistency or goals/assists contribution down to poor squad/manager? I mean sure, having a flawed squad and/or average manager plays a part but it also comes down to the application from the player himself. You only have to look at Kante as an example. Different player and not as talented as Hazard but he consistently puts in the performances, always looking to make a difference with his energy, work rate, quality etc and it's not only on the defensive side of things but also offensive wise. Not devaluing Hazard by any means but has he actually put in 10, 15, 20 consistent, consecutive performances in a season? Like some has mentioned in here, Hazard always does well for 4-5 games and then suddenly goes quiet for the next 10. If he can do it for 4-5 games straight, then why can't he sustain that kind of form for longer period? Blaming the poor quality of the squad or manager only goes so far. Comes down to the desire, mental fortitude and application at the end of the day.

You forgot Morata.

Made a similar point some time ago. We're led to believe that he's a winner, one who's obsessed with winning at all cost and will suffer emotionally if we don't. But from what we've seen this season, especially in 2018, he's nothing like that. Has had the look of a man who doesn't give a shit anymore and one who can't be bothered to find solutions when things go wrong. A stark contrast to last season when he was constantly finding solutions to problems. I still remember his post-match presser after that debacle at Arsenal - he was hurt, angry, didn't offer any excuses and was focused on turning things around. Compare that to now? It's just excuses after excuses and he's always shifting the blame to others. No doubt he'll continue to put his second season failure on the lack of backing from the board, that he has a flawed squad and people will buy into those excuses.

He might not have done it like Mourinho but Conte has definitely been throwing players under the bus of sorts, by constantly playing down their quality and even last season's title success. And why would he have a go at the board or players behind closed doors at this point? Doubt that would have any effect when doing so publicly hasn't done him or the team much good. It's clear he cannot give a crap anymore and is waiting for the end of the season and that big pay off. He has completely checked out since the start of 2018.

Chelsea 1-1 West Ham PRE/POST-MATCH DISCUSSION, LIVE CHAT AND ANALYSIS 2017/18 Premier League Match 32 8th April, Sunday, 2018 Stamford Bridge 16:30 Kick Off (UK time)

The irony of wanting young players to play for us but quick to throw him under the bus when things go south.

It's strange that whenever people criticize Hazard for his poor form or performance, the Eden Hazard FC fans will suddenly appear and spin the narrative to how fans should be grateful for having him or that things aren't his fault at all and it's always someone else's. Every. Fucking. Single. Time. Strange that.

Good riddance to the Chelsea Eden Hazard FC when that move happens.

I suppose we can apply that to every other player. Hazard is supposed to be our best player and yet, he's been outshone by Kante, who's not as talented as him, in almost every aspect in all the recent big games.

Like that is gonna make any difference at this point.

Can't deny his quality but watching how he has played in the last couple of weeks, if not months, I'm almost tempted to say good riddance when the Real Madrid move happens.

Is there any point in the board not sacking Conte now? The main objective has gone out of the window. Why bother keeping a manager who has long thrown the towel? Just look at what he did against Spurs - went 3-1 down in the 66th minute and waited till the 81st minute before making the first sub. In fact, he made all 3 subs in the last 10 minutes. Does he think they are all Ronaldo or Messi?! And once again, he stuck with the back 3 till the bitter end. No change in formation or any sort of genuine Plan B.

As painful as this defeat is, it's not even surprising at all, which I guess sums up the state of us right now. Have never felt more disconnected to the club - no direction or leadership from the board. have a manager who has long given up. have a squad of players who not only lack the quality but are also spineless. It's clear that no one gives a shit anymore these days.

Crystal Palace are chokers! Have conceded late winners and lost 5 points after 80th minute against Spurs, Man United and Liverpool!

I only mentioned the final point about Valverde because you brought up Enrique knows a big club's expectations and how to deliver them. We can go in circles here but at the end of the day, as BlueLyon mentioned before, it comes down to what the board want. If they continue to demand instant success (with a flawed squad), then maybe Enrique is the better man for the job than Tuchel. But if they think long term and build for the future, then perhaps Tuchel is the better manager for this. Both managers represent a big risk and have a huge question mark hanging over them. Just depend on which option is worth taking the risk.

Dortmund might not exactly be a big club like Barcelona or Real Madrid but it's still fairly big these days. So, Tuchel does have some form of experience at one. Not to play down Enrique's success at Barcelona but any decent manager would success with the frontline that he had and speaking of Barcelona, Valverde had no big club experience before this season and yet, he's on his way to at least winning the domestic double.

Tuchel managed an unfancied Mainz for 5 seasons and guided them into the Europa League twice as well as 3 top 10 finishes. Di Matteo may have won 2 trophies within 2 months but look where has that gotten him - sacked from a number of jobs and out of one since 2016. We have hired countless of highly successful managers and they have not turned out to be great success, have they? Says who? You? Both are big gambles really. Enrique may have won more trophies than Tuchel but he had Messi, Neymar and Suarez at Barcelona. If we take that out of the equation, he didn't exactly did greatly elsewhere.

I'm skeptical about Tuchel but going by your logic, Di Matteo is a great manager, right? Then why did he get sack by West Brom, Chelsea and Aston Villa? Plus, if we include Schalke, he lasted only 2 seasons at most at those 4 clubs and worse part is, he lasted than a season at 3 of those clubs!