OneMoSalah

Frank is too naive and too nice. As all younger modern ex player British coaches are because these sort of things are frowned upon and it is believed that all these things stemmed from “foreign coaches and players bringing into into the league”. Remember the spy gate thing? Unbelievable. Criticism Bielsa got for an approach which he’s been using throughout his career in which he also done the presser thing where journalists were blown away with his meticulous nature and approach. An approach Villas-Boas said Mourinho also adopted while here... yet British manager saying its wrong and British football being “the best and biggest”, its hugely frowned upon. Naivety. Guardiola is an absolutely revolutionary manager and has been since 2008 but his teams have been doing tactical fouls and getting calls by players over exaggerating fouls for seasons upon seasons. Mourinho also. No surprise either, these are two of the most successful and most revolutionary managers of the last 20 years. Yet British managers, we will do it our way we are British and we never dive or never played dirty or never used unfair advantages bla bla bla. Thats why bar Fergie and Brian Clough, there haven’t been very many successful ones in recent time. And at this rate foreign coaches will continue to be trend setters and win the big prizes. Football is ultimately about winning. And these guys will literally do anything to he successful.

Rice-Kante double pivot please god no. Be back to the Mikel-David Luiz days. Also your talking about balance but yet mention Barkley and Gallagher who are more offensively minded players? Ok Gallagher maybe bit more rounded actually but still.. balance... Barkley? He looked good when he came on did Billy but the game was gone, City didnt have any real interest in getting out of third gear. Id like to see him play a bit more frequently though. Not instead of Mount but instead of Kovacic who still lets games pass him by far too easily. Hes really undoing the good work and performances he put in last season.

Thats the basics and lack of effort we were on about in another thread. Same with Ziyech for the 3rd goal. Not first time this season he’s been in a position where thats happened and also last. Performance wise I think hes been okay over the course of the season, he had a good patch then fizzled out but again against City, although he wasn’t particularly good he was ok.

It does and it doesnt. It looks good in terms of a few results will change the table for us but it doesn’t look good because a manager with a lesser group of players got his team 6th, 3 places above us. Again Villa, Everton and Leicester same idea, all above us also. West Ham same points as us. Arsenal 3 off....

Re City. Who knows. Wages. Whatever. Them being linked doesn’t mean anything unless Pep actually has said it so many teams are linked with players. We also all know finances kept Liverpool from trying to buy him. He is reportedly on £270k a week here as was reported by several sources. Yes hes not a winger, its clear to see that because he doesn’t really take people on in 1 v 1s or particularly excel at crossing the ball or cresting chances. He needs to be more central I agree but if hes out there on the left, he has to do the job and has to try do more. £52m player who can only play one way isn’t exactly promising. Why don’t we just appoint Nagglesmann and sign every Leipzig player and recreate their whole team if he cannot adapt and do more? The Sarri comparison re Kante isnt exactly relevant because after a while Kante actually adapted and played some good stuff. Where as Werner is struggling in that left hand side role. The effort thing is relevant to a lot of players, it is, but I just get the impression hes more frustrated when he plays as opposed to trying to rectify the fact hes struggling. Maybe he is burnt out, maybe not, we haven’t rotated players as often and that could affect many of them. Still think for a £52m player who has played left wing for a large period of his career at Stuttgart and Leipzig albeit slightly differently perhaps, he can be better there for us. Its not as if we have taken a centre back and put him there. Completely agree that others have struggled. No doubt one bit about that. Unfortunately when you cost a bit of money like Kai and Timo that will weight on people when they make their judgement. Sky pundits panned every attacking players of ours at half time because they were anonymous (harsh on Pulisic I felt he at least tried). Second half they were anonymous again bar Pulisic. When Pulisic wasn't in the starting 11 last season he got the same skepticism and people questioned whether he was good enough or not so why is it as if its anything new or not to be expected for these guys? It should be expected by now that any player coming into any PL team for large money, if they take a bit of time or struggle there will be a group who will ask the question if their good enough or call them flops or whatever. Its nothing new. You can go through the midfield and attack and point the finger at most of them here yes. But the new guys who were meant to elevate the team or add new strengths will always be the first to get criticism from outside/other fans/fans because price tags comes with expectations. Jason cmon theres no doubt Tammy and Giroud right now offer more to this team. I can see your a fan of Werner, as many of us are and were initially excited of his arrival but he has been doing nothing in the last 6 or 7 games. Tammy may be a mixed bag but shown times this season and last he can bring something to this team. Giroud also and he may be slow or immobile at times but his link up and hold up play suits some of these players. Plus in the air both are taller and better so when we cross the ball more than Burnley by the looks of it due to the managers one dimensional approach, it makes me wonder why would you want a 5 ft 9 striker in there? Your saying its avoiding the problem or dancing around it or whatever you put it as but playing a 5 ft 9 striker over one of two 6 ft plus strikers when your game plan is heavily reliant on crossing is that not more of a problem? Lampards approach is a problem but until he leaves/is sacked/whatever, hes clearly not going to change. So doesnt that mean Timo offering nothing is more of a problem?

Sack someone after winning a title? Fucking hell this is a bit daft. I hope its sarcasm because no way a top coach is coming here on peanuts where that would he financially possible also. Or are you on FIFA/PES/pc game mode? If he can win a title being 7 points off top up against Klopp, Jose, Pep and whoever else why would you sack him 🤣? Jesus christ. Would that not just be an ever bigger indication of his capabilities and his ability to get his approach over to the team pretty effectively? l dont get what you mean by unconvincing football either, he won Serie A with Milan and they played some decent stuff. Juventus played some decent stuff (and many said Allegri improved Juventus after Conte after Conte famously made the quote regarding transfers before leaving while instantly improving upon his European record also...) while playing various different formations and making changes in the spine of their team. People seem to have this perception hes Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis is in an Armani suit by the looks of this forum. Hes not. Anything with this impression of him is, to put it bluntly, clueless. He didnt get Juventus to a CL final playing unconvincing football. He didn’t win however many Serie As throughout his career playing unconvincing football/tactics. I think the fact hes been out of the game for a year and a half has given people this impression he will only be successful in Italy or his style is only useful in Serie A or whatever... which I am sure people probably thought about Conte before he came here, won the PL in a season where his approach basically reintroduced English football to playing with back 3s to the point now so many teams still use this systems more than they had in the last 10 years. Yet bet when he immediately left Juventus you’d have taken him in a heartbeat prior to Franks appointment?

Hassenhuttl is known for his combination football though. With better quality at his disposal he'd ofcourse play much more attractive football. Is he? From what I remember of Leipzig with him they were basically the same as Southampton bar a wee bit more quality with Werner and Forsberg. Still hit the channels, still looked over the top and played on transitions. Not saying it wouldn’t work but when youve got talented players like Pulisic, Havertz (ok hes been pisspoor for a whole), Ziyech among others, then look at Southampton trying to break teams down when they go up against teams that defend... it isn’t exactly that good. Yes the quality of players maybe doesn’t help but again there isn’t much invention in the same way you see in other teams in the PL: Leeds are actually an excellent example of this. Thats why we need to find a coach who can get these boys into positions where they can break down teams using their qualities and not relying purely on the opposition leaving huge spaces for counters or due to losing it due to being pressed/sloppy on the ball. Might work for Southampton and has them flying but City, Liverpool, even United and Spurs at times have more to their make ups than that and ultimately we want to be competing with them/better than them.

It would be interesting but still think he would be lower down the list. Or if he was our first choice I would be a bit concerned because I think Allegri, Tuchel, among other names should be the sort of level we go for first. He is a 442 man as he is at Southampton and at Leipzig. Its clearly his preferred system and has clearly helped him turn it around with Southampton. They have a lot of balls, the way Southampton play hunting the ball down and with a high line is admirable but you look at the midfielders and we have and the attackers we have, guys like Havertz, Ziyech, Pulisic. These guys don’t want to be chasing balls over the top and in the channels. They want to come inside play one and two touch combinations with each other, moving off the ball into spaces in and around the box. Southamptons actual play in the middle of the pitch isn’t that impressive. They are good for recovering second balls and getting stuck in but offensively they are heavily reliant on the balls in the channels and over the top. They are a good side for set pieces mind you and while thats something we have tightened up and improved upon ourselves, they have some good worked routines. The work rate would be night and day though but again I dont know how he would cope taking that style to Chelsea, bigger names, more demands, more pressure to win, I know Southampton are higher than us at present but theres not the same expectation.

Southampton doing well this season but wouldn’t like to see us go for Hassenhuttl. Not as a first or second choice anyway. I will be honest the high energy pressing style is admirable but the insistence on hitting the channels/balls over the top every chance they get is a bit predictable and here its not already as if teams don’t sit off us and play deep so it’s not going to work as easy as it does for a Southampton. We have guys like Ziyech, Pulisic, Havertz who you would like to see playing one and two touch combinations with each other moving into spaces as opposed to chasing balls over the top/in the channels. Plus he has played 442 at Leipzig and now Southampton, its undoubtedly his system and it doesnt particularly suit our squad either. Plus the players he moved on from Southampton because they didnt fit his style. Which isn’t mentioned. Would he do the same here? Hope they keep this result up though. He strikes me as a manager who's doing well there, not as good as Pochettino but more like Koeman when he replaced Poch.

Everyones talking playing styles as if thats the most important. Someone who’s well respected as a coach who will improve and set high standards that the player will have to meet every week is a priority. Can keep the more progressive football if its going to be good one week, then 3/4 weeks where we don’t show up. We seen from Sarri and now Lampard where thats taken us. Maybe Tuchel would be different maybe not but there needs to be something because this is a young group and they need something/someone to put them en route to being a proper team. Not just a team that plays good football like Arsenal under Wenger after 2008 or whatever but were never truly competitive and struggled when games got shitty/tough.

True it was release clause but wages also undoubtedly which is why I mentioned agents. I personally still don’t see why City would of wanted him considering what they have in wide areas as he wouldnt he starting ahead of Aguero although he is missing due to injuries but still, Liverpool not getting him looked more of a mistake than say City not going for him until they signed Jota. Yes the positions different but the guy has to adapt and ultimately I expected more from him, considering he has played left wing for Germany numerous times. I mean obviously works both ways but again, if the balls not in and around the box or put in behind for him what does he do? Does he take the ball and drive at players like Pulisic does if he’s out wide? Does he try hold the ball or link the play like Giroud when hes uptop? He doesn't as those aren’t his strengths obviously but you’ve got to adapt still and he can do more. I do feel a bit sorry for him being played out left as its not his role but I am very surprised at what he’s putting in out there in terms of one quality and two effort. The whole team you could argue is set up to fail with Lampard tactics but also, not that its a saving grace for Frank but individual performances can be much much better. Its not as black as white as the tactics are shite so 11 players playing poorly week in week out is only down to him. He wanted them and has to find a solution to get them in and playing well with the rest of the team but they’ve also got to be up for it and impose themselves in games and put effort in at times. Not seen anything from Havertz since that hattrick against whoever we played in the FA cup if I am honest and that was about 4 months ago. 21 games and 4 goals for £80m. Also re Timo, him missing those sitters/clear chances isn't done to Lampard’s tactics is it? Some of its lucks some of its been poor finishing. The problem Lampard has regardless of if its Timo, Kai, whoever is that too many players are struggling which indicates a wider issue and why I think we need a change (and going by forum a lot of others think he needs to go too). But this is by no means me making any excuses for these players who have really dropped off and struggled either way. They need to take some responsibility for their individual form at times, Kai and Timo may be new may not have had pre seasons bla bla bla but for two players who cost nearly £130m you expect much much more in terms of quality. Regardless of it was Frank Lampard, Sean Dyche, Jose Mourinho’s or Tony Pulis in charge. Even if Frank went out the door and was replaced, as we seen with Guus Hiddink that season he replaced Jose after we won the league in 2014/15, its not always an instant fix. So its interesting. I dont know who will come in but I think someone who demands respect as a manager is needed ie an Allegri. I also think someone whos a bit more discipline driven would boot a rocket up these players arses because Frank isnt doing it or if he is, they dont seem to be getting the message. Your right re Timos rutt but I would rather Giroud or Abraham who have been in amongst the goals in comparison to Timo in the last 12 matches, at least until we get results. Even more so because they offer more to the team as players right now. I am struggling to see why Timo should be included. If he was scoring goals it would be fine you could justify his inclusion for that but he’s not. I was glad to see he was in as CF today as I thought the players would be able to get him chances but they didnt and he didnt offer anything. The playing style is an issue yes but it’s obviously what FL is gonna keep persisting with so Giroud/Abraham more likely to score from crosses than Timo. Hopefully if there is a change everyone will get a boost and we will see better from these players but these dreamers thinking we are gonna get Nagelsmann or someone like that, need to wake up. Standards have only gotten lower since somehow getting Conte to come in and take over a team who had spent most of the season floating about 10th or 11th in 2015/16. Allegri would be a real shrewd move, safe hands, plenty experience but will he want to come here? Questionable.

Can we make 11 changes?

Results are ultimately more important than recruitment. You can recruit well but if you don’t get results it ultimately won’t matter. If he was sacked tomorrow and this group went on to be successful in a year or a few years down the line, nobody will remember Lampard’s spell in a better light after spending 200m or whatever and having us sitting 8/9th. Behind Everton. Aston Villa. Leicester. Tottenham. Teams we all finished above last season without 200m of players like Timo Werner, Hakim Ziyech, Ben Chilwell, Thiago Silva, Kai Havertz who are all improvements on what we had last season. The last 18 months of his time here there is no clear style, no identity and ultimately no real progress. Only positives results wise was the 2 purple streaks spanning the 20 games in 2 seasons.

Wouldnt see him starting there. Not as technically proficient as the likes of Silva, Mahrez, Sterling, De Bruyne, Foden, Gundogan, Torres etc although not to say Pep couldnt of improved him. Would of imagined the City links are the same as the old links we had to every player under the sun because we spent a lot of money, we had big managers and clubs/agents would try drive up the price. Regardless of which position/system Werner played in for Leipzig, we knew he would have to adapt to fit into the team in one way or another be it off the left or upfront and we all thought he would have the quality to do it. I do think the coaching is an issue for the team but theres also got to be a huge emphasis on Timo himself. Same with Kai. There performances really haven’t been good enough for a while. Talking of tactics and flexibility, I seem to remember you being among many complaining about Lampard not trying 433 earlier on in the season to suit Havertz, Kante, Mount, among others. When we played 4231? Now go 442? Or 352? Or whatever? Again, may work, may not but again theres 11 players the system has to suit not just Timo. Right now, I do think the best thing for Timo is going to be a run out the team in all honesty, if he keeps up with this runs of no goals, be it from the left or up top, its going to be additional pressure. The whole method of creating chances by crossing be it from James, Azpiliceuta or Chilwell, doesn’t suit Timo.

His interview with Sky Sports was very weird and confusing. Just said something about Boro beating us when he was a player and still lifting a trophy at the end of the season. Saying they had quality and spirit in dressing room during his time. Is that him saying we don’t have that now? We have just spent 200m so if theres no quality there at least then fuck knows. Then says he wont look at/criticise certain players... I dont know what to make of it.

I really think we do need a change but its tough for selections. I would take Allegri in a heartbeat. As I would have before when Sarri left. Tuchel not bad option but has baggage and is more than likely to continue the trend of his career of few years all good, big falling out then change teams. He has done it at Mainz, Dortmund and now PSG. Sarri back 😂?

I think now seeing Pep say we are a strong team with the quality of our squad and also Klopp, Arteta and Jose have said it beforehand, other teams must be thinking thank fuck Chelsea dont have a much better coach or a more innovative coach. Players may be struggling but the manager is struggling more.

Only 2 passable performances (1 starter 1 sub). Pulisic and Gilmour. Rest poor again. Perhaps Mount also could be in there with a passable performance if I am honest. But again he can do better. Not sure what is up with Werner, he looks a shadow of the player he was at Leipzig. Being used correctly or not, he has to do so much more. He looks disinterested and needs taken out of the team if I am honest. Ziyech is obviously still getting upto speed after being out. Kovacic can do so much more and another game that has passed him by. Lampard again with questionable subs (although Havertz did set up the CHO goal)... the constant crossing to 5 ft 7 attacking players and then continuing to do so without bringing Giroud or Abraham on. Embarrassing. If he survives January and this form continues, we will be finishing between 9th and 14th. 100%. He just said prior to the game he would stick to his ways. Stubborn and out of his depth at the moment. £200m spent and no real progress made. The sentimental value because of what he achieved here as a player and the willingness for people wanting to see him succeed was always going to be an interesting bridge to cross if this inevitably happened but 18 months later since his appointment, no clear style of play, he looks very much subdued on the touchline every time we are behind and often reacts too late to make changes as well as making hugely questionable ones. Its got to be time that people upstairs are worrying. Aston Villa are above us with games in hand. So are Everton. West Ham are equal points. Southampton can jump over us. City just did and still have games in hand. Arsenal who had their worse ever start to a PL season (i think it was that) are 3 points behind us.

Hes not exactly going to give us much based on his contributions in recent months. Where as Giroud and Abraham have been scoring and are more applicable to the hopeful crossing of every attack. Although Havertz is tall.

Why has he not put on Tammy or Giroud but changed out Kovacic for Havertz and Ziyech for CHO (although return from injury bit more understandable). Has no clue what hes doing. Really. With the insistence on crossing youd think Giroud or Tammy on would be the first sub.

The insistence on crossing with nobody in the box is absolutely appalling. Folk need to break their neck to get in that box or we need to do something different.

Hes got to go. De Bruyne scored that first one it would be 4 and every time they come into our half they are in and at the box and he just sits there arms folded motionless on the sidelines. Thank fuck Aguero didnt start too or it would be more as he loves a goal against us. We are 8th now in the table at present. Arsenal 3 points behind us...

Yeah game over now. 2-0. Too easy. Arms folded on the sidelines?

Mendy hand on it again... bit harsh to say but if it were a certain other GK, same point. Silva got done a belter too there, was some bit of play by Gundogan.

outside the box just. Still a foul though.