CHOULO19

Get in!!! :blue scalf:

Well, Jose certainly has the element of surprise on his side..

No I don't think you're "some pro-USA sheep" nor did I imply that I did. I just think that you don't know what you're talking about which is not something to be ashamed of at all. I was not trying to sound arrogant (although I admit that's probably how I came across). I seriously think that you should read up on Islamic ideology and the principles of Nazism. Because the suggestion that Islam is similar to Nazism is beyond wrong, it just laughable. No, I'm not a Muslim, but I live in a country where about half the population is, so I know a lot about Islam. And because of Lebanon's geography, I also know a lot about Zionism, Judaism and the HUGE difference between them.

No I'm saying that your comments show serious lack of knowledge about Islam, Nazism, Zionism, the difference between it and Judaism, and how politics generally work. I suggest you read up on the Islamic ideology and Nazism and its principles before you make ill-informed accusations. EDIT: And yes, Muslims have have anti-Zionists beliefs not anti-Semitic and that is because of the Palestinian cause. In fact, historically, Jews and Muslims have always had very good relations, certainly better than the relations between Judaism and the Church. Islam and Judaism have A LOT in common.

Smh...I don't know who has been scaring you so much but you really need to think about this. Just seriously sit down and logically think about this.

I couldn't agree more. I think that we have made huge progress this season, but unfortunately the ineffectiveness in the final third is eclipsing this progress a lot of the time. And it's not our strikers, it's also the three behind them failing to turn very good positions and situations into chances.

Mate, how could you miss my point so many times? Please, just reread my posts without prior judgments and you'll see that the point I was making is a very simple one. If you think that Zionism is synonymous with Judaism, or worse Islam is synonymous with antisemitism then you're right that we should end this discussion as it would be hopeless. And PS: You just called a Muslim black person a Nazi

Not you using the excuse, politicians. It is not simple at all and the Mandella and Obama examples are exactly like this case: Just because someone opposes or supports something that someone terrorist or facist group opposes or supports does not make that someone a terrorist or facist himself. To make this easier let me try to make the examples simpler. Some terrorists oppose the US foreign policy and commit terrorist acts against the US. Mandella opposes the US foreign policies because they hurt his people and country. That does not make Mandella a terrorist even if he shares an "enemy" with some terrorists. But still, the US puts Mandella on the list of terrorists and treat him the same as the terrorists that bomb civilians in order to suppress his ideas and kill his cause because equality and getting rid of discrimination goes against the US best interest in that region. Same applies here. Antisemitic people hate Zionism because (on the surface) it concerns Jews. Anelka hates Zionism because of all the horrible things zionists have done and continue to do in the world and especially the Middle East. So Anelka does a gesture that is defined by who created it as antizionist and antiestablishment gesture. Some of the antisemitic people also do the gesture because they hate Zionism as well. That does not make that gesture antisemitic nor does it make Anelka so. Of course he should not be making it on a football pitch but that's another discussion. And just like Mandella was labelled as a terrorist, Anelkas friend is labeled as antisemitic by the French courts because it is in the best interest of some powerful lobbies that the ideas criticising Zionism and behind them the oil and weapons companies and ultimately imperialism are suppressed and stripped of any moral appeal.

I am not shrugging it off by any means. I said the world is full of terrorists and racists whom we need to combat erase from our societies. But it is never that black or white. Labelling someone who is antizionist as antisemitic is the same as labeling Obama a communist for wanting to implement healthcare for example or Madella a terrorist for opposing US and British plans...etcUsing the rising of facism as excuse to suppress any antizionist, antiemperialist, antiestablishment...etc criticisms or any political ideas that differs from the media propaganda induced general consensus is just another face of facism.

Nelson Mandella was on the US list of terrorists till 2008. So that makes everyone who supported his cause till that date a terrorist? The world is unfortunately full of racists, terrorists, antisemitic people, homophobic people...etc but it is also full of people who use those tags to suppress ideas beliefs and causes.

If I may, I think the issue that bushman (and even LDN) we're trying to make is that: Who determines what is recognized as antisemitic and what is not? There are a lot of gray areas just like there is with racism, homophobia...etc There are also quite a lot of entangled areas. On the surface, Zionism is about Jews and often Zionism is synonymous with the establishment (oil and weapons companies) but being antiestablishment does not make you antisemitic. Politicians always use those gray and entangled areas to suppress opinions and causes by labeling them immoral and not "politically correct". It is strategy that is used by both left and right wings.

As far as I understand, the one who invented the gesture intends it as an anti-Zionism/anti-establishment gesture. What politics turns it into Is another story. On any account, political gestures do not belong on a football pitch and he will deservedly get a fine.

Done

Take it to the politics thread, boys. We don't need a political argument here.

It's not Nazi, it's Anti-Zionist. He'll get a big fine for it, probably.

Better than Guarin, at least.

Yes, please!

I'll do Hull as well since Nish and Barbara aren't available next month, then.

Great. I'll take that one.

Well, that's always a possibility, but I was surprised that we didn't do that against City who are by far better than Liverpool. I don't expect us to leave acres of space behind our back four, butt I'd be very surprised if we played as defensive as we did vs Arsenal. The only think I worry about vs Liverpool in that we seem to have some sort of mental block against them in the league. Since 2009, they've beaten us in 3 of the 4 matches at the Bridge in the EPL. I trust that Jose will be working on the mental side as well.

Yeah he was very good defensively; had the most interceptions and tackles but more importantly made some vital clearances, but offensively I thought his passing should have been better. Still, good to see him in good form in the past three games. We will need that form to continue against Liverpool.

Well this thread is depressing... Anyway, I was just coming here to say that he had a very good game vs Swansea. Defensively, he was very good and offensively, his passing ability really catches opposition out.

That's not really true. Yes, he held the ball up well, but he was just sooo slow on the ball. So many times he could have created a chance for someone but was just too slow to release the ball and the opportunity was gone. At least Fernando doesn't do that (anymore).

Going by some of the comments in this thread you'd think we're playing Brasil's 1972 team. Liverpool are punching WAY above their weight and wouldn't be near the top four with out Suarez. Mark him out of the team and our squad is better than theirs in every single position. Let's not overrate Liverpool just because City had a terrible game against them especially in defense.

But I thought I was the only one who did that trick!