didierforever

yes, very true dude because CHELSEA FOOTBALL CLUB is all about developing oscar not about getting the right results and the right balance. LOL-MAX post.

where do i even start? finishing 6th was an exaggeration in 2011-12. i mean look at the team that played arsenal away (after the barca game) or liverpool away (after the fa cup game) and u get a clear indication of exactly how much the league meant to us. it was a lost cause and in the end rdm decided that it was the 3rd priority. and it worked. so that 6th should not be an argument. before the start of the 2012-13 season, if u had told me that we would finish 3rd in the league then i would have taken it in a heartbeat. for 8 years we were predominantly playing a game of hoofing the ball upto DD and him bailing us out of everything. now our most talismanic player was gone. the spine of the team had withered and players like oscar, hazard, marin, moses were bought him. and if u actually expected us to be not fighting for a CL spot or if u expected us to be fighting for the PL, then lets stop this discussion right now. getting a 3rd spot with the squad we had and with the time the squad had spent together was A BIG DEAL. so the last season was in no ways a failure. why should oscar be benched instead of playing on the wings? have we already forgotten what the MAZACAR was doing last season. the wingers we have are willian, schurlle, kdb not ronaldo, bale and neymar. oscar in the team with mata gives us the X-FACTOR, and that is what is essential to break down defences. as for the other part where u say that u think, he is not HALF as good as people make him out to be, his stats say differently. i would take an EL, FA cup and a lucky CL over any stability and all the jazz that is supposedly the most important thing for a club. lets look at all the clubs u wanted me to compare with in your previous posts in the last 2 years. RM - one la liga barca - la liga, copa del ray united - EPL bayern - bundesliga, german cup, CL borussia - bundesliga, german cup we have the MOST or the 2nd most successul team in ALL OF EUROPE in the last 2 years. i seriously dont understand where u r coming from? the point was never about discarding the old system. all of us and most of us at the end of the last season were happy (in a way). the future looked bright. with the team and the SYSTEM we currently had, add to it mou as a manager plus add a WC striker and a WC DM and most us thought we would have been set. but for one of the most un-understandable reason, we dint get any of the 2. u wanted me to compare chelsea with the other top teams in europe and tell me ONE team out of bvb, bayern, RM, barca that are so poor in standards when it comes to the deep mid and striker positions. the only good thing about chelsea were our attacking mid with mata leading the charge and that would have only been ENHANCED is we had got a proper DM and a WC striker. if u want chelsea to be competing witht the best, we need to have the best players. at this moment we are discarding our most potent weapon. chelsea winning the cl, el and fa cup is not worth mentioning. then i am sorry, we simply cant argue. because for me beautiful football, possession footbal and all that jazz means shit if u dont win things. i dont want to end up like arsenal. i dont care if we got lucky and all, it worked. we won. 5 years from now, no one would care. all that would be known to the world is that chelsea won 2011-12 CL. also no one is supporting mata over the team. the thread itself is named mata vs oscar- no.10 debate which should be clear enough. all we are saying is that mata is essential to this team. even with all the talent we have, mata has to be the one to carry this team on his shoulders as oscar does not seem to be ready/better than mata for the same role.

in my fantasy team today. i was looking forward to the day i could put him in my fantasy team, the day he started playing regular football. the day has come- make me proud, my son.

the same sinking feeling i had before the basel match. if fulham can stop us from getting an early goal, we ll be in for a long night. just hope we get a nerve settler for the players and the crowd to feel at ease.

well, my point was for a completely different argument, but is makes sense here too.

avb did not start him in the start of the season. and when he did, DD got KO by the norwich keeper, then got a red against qpr, then a month for afcon and during the end, he was basically for CL, FA cup matches rather than the league. also even DD was pretty poor for a league match in2011-12. he showed no fire, no enthusiasm, and simply was not the DD of old or the DD that we saw in CL and FA cup games.

6th was an exagerration. we could have come 4th or atleast 5th easily if we put in a fight. but by the end of it we had given up. i mean the kind of team that started arsenal away (after barca first leg) and liverpool away (after winning FA cup) should be a clear indication. we were relying more on our CL performance to get us a CL spot than the league itself. so i really feel that 2011-12 does not give a fair estimation.

first of all, what u want is totally unfair. u want mata to single handedly go from our own D to the opposition box to make a move?? i mean seriously? those barcelona and bayern munich matches were a one-off. no team would ever by playing THAT defensive a football ever. plus mata was not our go to man then, DD was. u cant expect a possession based player to go out and have a field day in a sysytem which was set up predominantly to defend for their lives. and even then i would say mata did his job defensively. he dint loiter on ahead and kept chelsea's shape. if u still want to argue about mata's role in CL campaign, i first want u to tell me which of the teams u meantioned above played the way we did. if u want to judge mata judge him on his performances in big-matches over the 2 years not those 3 matches which were a one-off and would never happen again. is kagawa a winger? is jordan henderson a winger? NO. but they play on the wings to suit their team. i simply dont understand this "OSCAR CANT AND SHOULD NOT PLAY ON THE WINGS" ploy. our best moments last year happened with playing hazard-mata-oscar. they work together. they have that chemistry, that "x-effect". just because oscar individually was not out of the world when he played on the wings, does not mean he should not play there. CHELSEA WON, when he played and that is what is the most important. is that supposed to be funny? we dont have a striker, we dont have a good combo for a pivot, we have a defence which is led in most matches by a time bomb who can go off at any time, and yet u want JUAN MATA to single handedly go out and rape opposition. i cant believe what i actually just read. i mean how biased could you be? i have had the mata vs oscar argument with so many people now, but i have not come across something this bad all this time. mata was a guiding light in a dark tunnel. he was someone we could depend to make us go over the crossing line, even if just, but he did that. his class is what showed us apart when needed.i mean look at his records against united, arsenal, tottenham and yet u r crying over his chelsea not able to dominate all oppositions? what is he supposed to do? become superman and somehow fly with the ball and put in the back of the net. even in the last 2 transition years, chelsea have ended up winning UCL, FA and EL and we OWE a big chunk of our success to a little guy name JUAN MATA. just because oscar has a defensive edge over mata does not make him a 100% starter in this CHELSEA side either. people are pissed because, jose has said that he looks at oscar as his no.1 no.10 and mata would have to fight for his place in the team and yet jose continues to play mata on the wings where as u said, he is a liability. people are pissed because, no way has oscar deserved to be given that tag. i mean look at our performances without juan. they are abysmall. people in the team should know their roles and in the last match or the last half-an hour against everton, it truly seemed our players have no idea of what they are supposed to be doing on the pitch. with mata evrything looks simpler. every1 seems to play better and there is far more cohesion in the team. also i dont care how high any1 rates mata or they dont rate mata. he works for us. and that is the most important thing.

well lets hope it works out for jose and chelsea then. he is obviously a much better tactician than all of us put together. lets hope his gamble works.

so we are just gonna say that cech and DD single handedly won us the CL??? and discard any of the smallest contribution from any of the players. i mean in matches where we went beyond the half line only a number of times, u want some solid evidence of what mata did? seems fair. anyways i can remember mata assisting rambo in the FA cup final when we were actually playing football, and that was not from a frigging corner. i remember him against tottenham in the FA cup semi and he was brilliant. the list goes on and one... u interested? also the argument was if schurlle is a better winger than mata or not. tell me what schurlle has done and i ll shut up.

hahahaha... now thats just a brazilian talking...

please dont compare the casillas situation to the mata situation. casillas' last good performance was .... i actually dont remember. he was pathetic and even adan was included for a game before lopez was bought. on the other hand mata has been our best player for 2 years. has been our GO TO man every time we have found ourselves in a hole. has been our main orchestrator. i totally understand your arguments. about mou coming in and implying his style of way and all, but the point is will it work. so far it has not, infact its backfired badly. and thats not the most worrying part. our performances without mata have been very very poor. as for oscar, he is not on the mata level yet.

we have been a squad in transition for 2 years now. we ALWAYS have a new manager and we will always have plenty of new players because we are chelsea. if we start giving these excuses we are never gonna win anything, ever. also your point about the squad in transition makes my point even STRONGER. tell me how does it make any sense to drop your player of the year for 2 consecutive years, a player like mata who was our heart and sould for the last 2 years if we are in transition. WE NEED HIM. ps - please dont say hazard has playes well enough so far. its a derogatory remark on that guy's talent to call his last 6 matches "well enough". we are looking here at one of the most talented players in the world and we want him to be in the league of CR and messi not adel taraabt.

one of the worst mistakes he has made and believe me we are all going to regret it.

we are CHELSEA not everton. a 0-0 draw for us against say fulham would be as bad as 2-3 defeat. we are expected to win every game we play and how do u expect that to happen when a) we dont have a prolific goal-scorer. wait scratch that, we dont have a goal-scorer itself, forget prolific we are not playing our best creative midfielder c) our most lethal weapon (eden hazard) plays about 50 times better with mata than without him. d) with not scoring goals, we are inviting pressure, which lead to stupid mistakes like cech trying to force the play at 45 minutes just to get a counter going. e) oscar playing does not guarantee a clean sheet, he is not that good defensively, but it does screw us up big time in the creativity. also where is this notion of the team being WIDE OPEN coming from. mata played in almost every game we played last year. i dont remember us conceding 3-4 goals in every game, did we? infact we kept a clean sheet against a team like united at OT while mata scored the winner. so tell me how is playing mata not viable. as i said before, HE IS STILL OUR MAIN MAN.

basel game was one of the most pathetic performances i have seen from chelsea. we had no penetration, we had no chance and the goal was one where the basel center-back simply switched off. we were lucky to be 1-0 up. salah could have put basel up twice in the first half itself. and hence i said we would not have been in that position. we would have been easily controlling the game like we always do with mata. that is what i meant to say.

the players are getting older and wiser, more experienced. hazard-22, oscar-21, mata-25, willian-25, schurlle-22, kdb-21, mikel-26, rambo-26 so on and so forth. i mean these players should be at the top of their physical prowess at this age otherwise there is something really wrong with our training and fitness staff. we are playing a different way - accepted. but that is clearly not working. also we have been so hopelessly depended on mata for the last 2 years that we simply CAN NOT keep him on the bench and expect to play well. the style we played, the link-up play, the attack everythin was set up by juan. he was our heart and soul and you simply can not discard THAT. if u watched the last match, u could actually see how clueless our attack was. no one knew what their role was. for me oscar played too deep, hence their were times when lamps had to go ahead into the holes. but u could see it dint work and the same thing happened when we played against everton without mata too. hence the point is, should we simply continue to discard mata (because jose has already told that oscar will be his no.10) or include mata and then phase him out. for me the answer has to be the latter one. and yes, it is one of our main problems. because the style of football we play with mata as no.10 is totally and completely different from what we play with oscar as no.10. it changes the total dynamics of the team.

better workrates and faster does not make them BETTER. mata scores goals and makes oppurtunities for the goals. something which neither willian nor schurlle have been able to do. as for jose's statement, taking off willian whose workrate is awesome and put in mata who is kept out due to his defensive frivolities, when we are 1-0 up, i dont think mata should be the first one to be blamed. it was a poor substitution. so if mata starts fa and carling cup games, then atleast we ll win some trophies this season. while we would be losing to a team like BASEL at STAMFORD FUCKING BRIDGE (kindly tell me when was our last home defeat in europe, about 3 -4 years ago against united) and be fighting to get into europe and playing catch up. good deal!!!

the main reason for that happening is that we dint have a good striker who could take the load off our attacking mids and we dint have a world class DM. and we still dont have any of those 2.

first things first, calling schurlle and willian as amatuers is a slap on their faces. and i dint do that. so dont include me in that part of the argument. secondly, if u dint read the teamsheet then u would not have known any chelsea player was on the pitch except for DD and CECH. we played that way but we won. thirdly, i dont see how schurlle and willian are better wingers than mata at this moment. none of them stick to the wing. keep cutting in and the end story that happens is that the midfield gets too crowd, defending becomes easier for the opposition team. and so far schurlle has not shown any moment of magic that would make him extraordinary. as for willian i hope he does create magic in the chances he gets. so if u dont provide natural width, and if u dont have that extra flair that hazard has, and if u simply keep getting central and make us narrow, then i dont see how they are better. sure, they do provide brilliant work-rates and are much better defensively but right now,with a striker force which has an ideal target of 5 goals this season, we need goals from the midfield. and mata provides us with those.

u dont get back form by playing some1 just for 2 games in 6 matches. moreover, in mata's case class triumphs forms. i mean lets take everton game for an example. we might not have scored in the 55 minutes but we created ample oppurtunities. we were in control of the ball and the game, but as soon as mata was taken off, everything went downhill. and even though mata was the main culprit in conceding the winner to basel, i still feel we would not have been in that situation if he had started. the point is - we play better with mata.

true. because when mata played on the wings for us, we just won the CL and FA cup, so he is definitely not good enough.

goal keeper - same defense - same pivot midfield - same striker - same (or as efficient as last year) the main thing that has changed is the coach and the way he is playing oscar over mata. so while they might not be our ONLY problem, they are defintely one of the main problems.

unfortunately the results dont agree with the both of u and THAT is the most important thing. the best thing for cfc are the results and wins and mata is the best for that.

good luck to him.