Tomo

I think the main problem is we felt so so about the game whereas United really wanted it. Had our "so so" approach gone up against Liverpool who were as good as actively trying to lose we'd have probably have won 5-1 or something like that (Arsenal have got away with negative coverage big time for actually getting knocked out to that side), like we did in the cup vs City that time.

That's sort of my point. If we're basing it on their current sides then if Ajax aren't a good enough team to measure us against, then neither are this United side (take the prestige of the club out of the equation and what they did last night wasn't much different to when Burnley or O Neil's Villa got a result at Stamford Bridge). My whole point of challenge is you included United as a big game but a (superior) Ajax team as not. I'm not saying we don't have a big game problem, infact i alluded to it myself on this thread pre match, i just think it's very harsh to include this United team while chalking out Ajax, either both should enter the equation or neither.

Bayern won't afford him. I said on another thread (maybe this one) that if he has his heart set on Real then that's that but if he see's England as a genuine option I think we have as much a chance as any (English club).

It's because United are well set up for facing big teams, for all of Ole's faults he actually has a really good big game record and only City out of the top 6 have the measure of him. They remind me of Villa under O Neil and we struggled a lot with them aswell.

As I said, they're superior to every team we will face domestically this season bar City and Liverpool, so if it's not a big game then nothing bar games Vs those two are.

I think Ajax's exploits last season have earned them the tag as a big team and clashes against them being classes as big games, even if they've lost Frenkie. I would say they're better than all bar two teams we will face domestically all season so yes absolutely it was a big game in my eyes.

The point I'm making is, go on any site that has Frank's W-D-L record as Chelsea manager as that game will be in the middle section.

The game goes on record as a draw. I don't make the rules it is what it is, they won the tie but the game was a draw. In what sense aren't Ajax not a big game? Not only was qualification (almost) on the line, it was unbeaten semi finalists in Amsterdam fgs. Also to add, if we're going to take off Ajax as a big game surely the same applies with United? Take out the name and it's no different to what Burnley have been doing at Stamford Bridge in recent years, ie shithousing results through sitting deep and direct football (nothing wrong with that but it's not the actions of a big team).

Had we lost that game our chances of topping the group were next to nil and our chances of qualifiying would have been in serious jeopardy. Of course it was a big game.

You saying Ajax wasn't a big game? Liverpool in Istanbul was a draw, they won the tiebreaker but the match was a draw.

W1 D1 L3 Not great by any means , but still.

It's our (with everyone fit) second/third team (plus Jorginho and Odoi) Vs most of their first team, admittedly without their two best outfielders. Pressures definitely on them more than us despite us being at home, especially as they've adopted siege mentality tactics.

It can still work in one off games but in terms of winning leagues that style is a thing of a past.

While we're on the subject of big games I am a little concerned that our next three league big games are away (City, Spurs, Arsenal). Hopefully we can win atleast one of them games or at worse pick up two draws because transition season or no 0 or 1 point out of an available 15 won't look pretty.

There's two things that really put Lamps in a good light and make me convinced he's destined to be a top manager. 1. His coaching staff. He has picked appropriate coaching staff, given he wants to the play the youth and a ingrane a modern approach to football who better to bring in next to him than the two managers that got the very best out of these boys? This could also give us continuity if Lampard decides he needs a new challenge and/or gets burned out as Jody or Joe could seemlessly slot into the job, like Tito did after Pep left Barca. The signs of a great manager is one who's willing to accept he needs help, look at what happened to Moyes when he walked into United and thought it was a good idea to get shot of Fergie's coaching staff (who were all willing to stay and ease the process for Moyes). 2. How he does it his own way. Despite him citing Jose as a mentor in his career he couldn't be further from him as a manager in terms of tactical approach, media handling, ego and selection patterns. Compare that to OGS at United who's basically saying "I want to emulate Fergie" every chance he gets.

If he's got his heart set on Madrid/Barca then I agree it would be a waste of time even trying. However if he sees England as a genuine option then we have to put our name in the hat and I think we would stand a better chance then people think.

Maybe it did go a bit too far one way at one point, but ultimately we got through that period and are now a really good attacking/possession based team and it's really good to see.

I don't want to get in the Sarri debate cycle again but I feel we had to play a bit of restrictive game at the start of this process (of changing the style) just to get the basics right and build on it. Sarri tried to go all in on the aesthetics initially and we ended up with that mess of a game against Arsenal. While Lampard has done extraordinarily well so far, I think he was given a much solider foundation for his footy than if he took over from Conte. Looking back us and Sarri were the perfect marriage of convience, we got a man/fall guy to start the process of changing our style of play while he got his buffer to Juve.

When the hell did Oscar bag a hattrick?

I'd actually say a better comparison would be our record against Kenny's Liverpool (W1 L4) A crap manager with a crap team yet somehow kept getting results against us.

Thought I got away with that.

Caballero James Guedi Zouma (Rudi if fit) Emerson Gilmour Kovacic Barkley (Pulisic if Ross not fit) Pedro Batshauyi Hudson Odoi

Disagree, he may not have reached the levels people expected from him but he's absolutely crucial to United.

Read on twitter that Mane will be closing in on a lot of the old guards consecutive games unbeaten at one stadium records if Liverpool don't lose at Anfield soon. So for that reason I hope they lose.

Spurs are a half away from walking out of Ethiad and Anfield with 4 points despite being beyond awful in both.