Ossie the King

I've said it earlier but this is worse than the Rafa hiring in signalling that we as a support mean nothing and that the club is basically Roman's toy to do with as he wish. I say that as someone who has a lot of affinity for the guy and love to see him enjoying the match, but he is not a football guy and he's not really a Chelsea guy either. He's not 'one of us'. And for the first time I actually don't think he's worthy of the CPO giving up their stake in the club. Never thought I'd say that but right now I am struggling to like this club. At least with the CPO still holding a stake then I know there's something there that I recognise as being Chelsea, but the club itself seems to be so disconnected with the support that it's untrue. Emenalo always strikes me as a chancer and fair play to him. He's got the ear of a billionaire based on not very much but I don't trust him. Same goes for Marina who I did like, but she absolutely butchered that Stones deal to the point you wonder if she's anything more than a glorified secretary in over her head. Buck and Tenebaum....no clue. At least with Bates you knew where you stood because he unashamedly spouted it whether you wanted him to or not. We've never really heard Roman speak and now he sends out Emenalo to piss everyone off. He's right, the club is in trouble. He just doesn't realise that he's part of the problem.

Just as I say you've been spot on in another thread, you go and be spot on in this one. We can as a support be quiet, and I had to explain to a West Ham supporting mate that it's not just because a lot of the more vocal fans have been priced out of attending but because there's a weight of expectation and tension during matches. We almost expect a goal and when it doesn't come we get nervous. What's been brilliant is that the adversity we've faced has made us a lot more vocal (not always positive mind) and brought back a bit of that old-school spirit. Jose became the focal point for the support, and a lot of the players received the frustration because they've failed to do the basics right. Costa in particular has been atrocious and his shit movement has been a huge factor in us not scoring more goals. But the club can't replace the players like they need to now so it's just easier to replace the coach. That's what people mean when they talk about player power. It's not a conspiracy to get Jose sacked, but their sheer weight of numbers mean it's easier to change the coach and hope things improve rather than do what they should've done in the summer and improve the squad. Roman and the board's inept actions then have led to us having to sack a world class coach now.

I'm not looking forward to it, but he's the only viable option out there. The fans will give him some support and he's known to the staff at the club. But he's the best of a bad bunch and if we do get Ramos....fucking hell. There's part of me that would find it truly hilarious and I almost want it to happen so it's made perfectly clear that Roman and the board really don't give two fucks about the fans.

In my experience this season, yes there was frustration with the football and Jose did get some (deserved) criticism, but certain players got a ton of stick too and there was a real belief that the club might stick by Jose this time. Now we're completely rudderless and I really think we're proving that old thing about the club becoming nothing more than a rich man's plaything true. By the way whenever I've read this thread you've been making some excellent points in a sea of criticism from all corners. I enjoyed reading your posts because I actually recognised something approaching what I see in most of the people I see at the games. Keep it up mate.

It's also about those connections you develop with people within the club, specifically the manager. We've had that Mourinho like no other and I know some may dismiss that as being a 'fanboy' or it being a 'cult of Mourinho' but to me they're fundamentally misunderstanding what it is to support a club, to put your aspirations in the hands of someone. It's almost like reading a Sheldon Cooper thesis on football fandom Bazinga!

I wasn't questioning your support - we're all Chelsea supporters here and you're clearly Chelsea fan number one unless someone had a blue flag in utero, but I also don't think supporting is something you say you are or click on a website. It's your actions surely, although I'm certainly not one to judge. I've just been remarkably proud of the support the fans have given him in recent weeks, even though results haven't been great and it's occasionally grating to see views that are different to that, although you are most certainly allowed to have them. Think it's just the emotion of the day, and maybe one or two wums.

So now we're saying the league win was a miracle? 2012, that was a miracle. I'm not a believer in winning leagues being a miracle. Over 38 games you get found out. We also have a crop of defensive-minded players. That's the way football teams work though, you have a balance between defence and attack and saying 'I want an attack-minded coach so we score more goals' seems a flawed way to look at football. I can point to many matches under Mourinho where we've absolutely decimated teams....but still 2-0 away to Liverpool is one of the best results I've ever witnessed, as was Munich. Again, who do you want and what do you want us to become? You talk about cash neutrality but that is what Arsenal fans talk about? Yes we have a great Academy in terms of results but what type of football do you want these kids to learn, because a kid of 18 may well have been through 7 or 8 managers each wanting different things. You probably want consistency for these kids, well who dictates that? You can be optimistic because you've got what you want. I on the other hand think we've lost one of us and a person who is great at their job.

Well I lost a few days I think celebrating. He didn't have to be a nomad. He needed to find a home and he probably felt he had until the summer. Fuck me....we sacked one of us. Never felt so disgusted in this club.

CPO might have something to say about that last bit, but yes he can hire and fire who he wants. It's one season out of however many you plan on being a Chelsea supporter. You've got what you want now (and yes it's easy to say since it's true) but what next? What did you want next? Did you want this vacuum where supporters feel a disconnect with the club? Where we chuck a bit of our identity away? Is Steve Holland the plan? Aidy maybe? And I think the same guy who came back, the guy who led us to the league title and has unrivalled success as a manager would have got us going again. Jimmy Greaves probably didn't say 'form is temporary and class is permanent', but he sure as shit believed it and we'll all hold on to the players and maybe even the board regaining form. Supporting a club when they're winning the league is easy. That's when Facebook is fun and you can put up photos from the parade as your cover. It's when things go bad that supporting actually gets tricky yet the fans managed it every week. That's the one thing giving me hope for the future because the supporters will be united, but I suspect it may be against the players and the club itself.

Actually he doesn't have carte blanche because he doesn't own the most important things about this club. Yes I'm grateful for his money and what it bought but that doesn't mean he can do whatever he wants. Literally he can't and he may well find that out again in the future.

His management style won us the league last season though. You talk about the good of the team well we've lost a top manager and gained what exactly? Maybe that remains to be seen but once again we've sacked a manager rather than backing him and some people seem happy with that. From what I can see those same people have no idea who they want to take over either, what they want to see (attacking philosophy keeps cropping up which is funny in a perverse way) or what they think this club wants either. I can't think of a time since the 80s when the club has been so at sea.

What month? He was podgy at the start of 2014 and 2015 and started slow before hitting that scintillating form that led us to the title. Maybe I'm being overly critical because of what happened at Leicester.

Cech was the missing piece in Arsenal's defence. You're talking about what he meant to us, but what he meant to them is far more pertinent. Falcao may well have been a Mendes/Mourinho special. Were the rest? I don't think the board were trying to disprove some notion about Jose - I think they were just inept. We needed to spend to improve the squad and show some ambition, and we didn't. And yet the supporters still sung his name and backed him, which was something I thought we might have lost as a fanbase. That is perhaps the best thing to come from this, that the fans are showing some loyalty. But what did it get them? As for Klopp, I like him and I think he was a marvellous presence not just at Dortmund, but in the Bundesliga. It's not however 'straw clutching' to raise pertinent details about his time there. Ultimately you've got what you want though and maybe we'll be better for it. But I honestly don't think the vast majority of supporters will agree with you, especially at the Bridge against Sunderland.

Not when we're 24 mate

We wilfully sold Cech to Arsenal so there's a difference there but the point is that both suffered from things beyond their control in my opinion. You left out Djogbdosy in the list of gifts he was given by the way. And Falcao.

I agree and you've used the word complacent as I did earlier. But when there's no additions to the squad of note, why wouldn't a player become complacent. When there's no ambition in the transfer market and your closest rivals spend double or triple what you have, what's to stop complacency? We showed absolutely no ambition to improve on this squad and I think the players recognised that. It was as if we saw City spend £90 million on two players and said, here ya go. From a business standpoint brilliant, but who is making these purchases and how do they see them fitting in? Half of those players were bought with Guardiola in mind weren't they? Again, what philosophy are they fitting into? Roman's eye for an appreciating asset? Naah, I'll probably get complacent when the excitement of the day has worn off. Enjoyed the discussion though, very cathartic until I realise I have no idea what this club is doing anymore.

Dortmund finished 7th in the league in Klopp's last season and were down the bottom for a bit too. Same excuses for him though - woeful underinvestment in the team. The only rational decision when it comes to owning a football club is DON'T OWN A FOOTBALL CLUB. There's no money to be made in 99% of cases so there's your rationality out the window. I love Roman but he didn't give us anything except money, for which I am truly grateful.

Thank god, I thought I was imagining it. Every year the short-sleeve shirts look tight on him and everyone laughs it off. Every year we say he's a 'slow-starter' and it's supposed to be a quirk. To me he doesn't have that ruthless streak that someone like Ronaldo has. It doesn't mean he's not a brilliant player and a great bloke, but I don't honestly believe he's making the absolute most of his skills.

Yes it can. Money.

That's fair enough. I don't think times had passed by the guy who won the league last season, and if they have then what does that say about the managers he beat and who are now above him? Maybe it comes down to the form is temporary and class is permanent stuff.... but if that's not true about Jose why would it be true about the players under a new manager? Can't have it both ways unfortunately. Not each transfer is equal though. Mata wasn't needed by United and was a panic buy. Cech was EXACTLY what Arsenal needed both on the pitch and in the locker room. It's what they needed for years and Roman undermined his coach by selling him to them against his wishes. Maybe that's where we're different. I think Jose (like Eden) was right for us in May, is right for us now and will be right for us next season. You only believe that about Eden and you think Jose isn't. So you're trusting the board based on what they did in 2014-15 and you hope that they'll turn it around? I felt the same about Jose.

No idea mate but I can honestly say I'm not a multi. Also you can't on the one hand say you're not a wum and then change your avatar to a picture that you know will wind some people up. At least have a brass to admit that.

I loved that Mourinho, but it was the same guy just older. People change and you can either change with them or not and if you didn't then that's fine. What you've got to understand is that a lot of Chelsea supporters clearly did care about him and you're clearly on a bit of a wind-up here. Maybe not intentionally but that's how it's coming off to me. But I'd be interested to know your views on what this club's identity is now. Those players you've cited come from two distinct eras, the period immediately before Roman when we were a well-liked club who had a soft underbelly and the first Jose period when we were much more steely side who could overpower sides. What do you think our identity is now?

Really? Because for me an emotional connection between the supporters and the coach is something beautiful. To have the identity of the club embodied in one man so well is something of a rarity and you don't know how much you miss it until you're gone. That connection, is wasn't always perfect but there was love their and if you don't have that or if you judge it to be OTT then what are you supporting a club for? Football is only about emotional connections for fucks sake. It's a stupid game that has no importance but means everything and you must know that, surely. Yet you're going to use it to anonymously wind people up who you would probably count as your brethren or at the very least someone you have something in common with.

And yet you've advocated sacking one of the top 10 coaches in the world and leaving these people in charge to build something at this club? What they've shown is that they've learnt nothing from the Rafa debacle.

Call me naive but I'm firmly of the belief that Jose would've turned it around and got us to mid-table (pause for laughter) but that long-term he was the best manager for the job. I believed that before he came, I believed that in May of this year and I believe it now. It went beyond purely what was on the pitch and into what we were trying to build as a club. Again, I think today we've lost a huge remnant of whatever identity we had as a club and I really think the CPO could be an issue for Roman because of that. You're perhaps hoping that Roman can develop a cohesive footballing identity that can lead us comfortably over the next decade. I personally don't think the guy knows what he's doing now. Let's not forget that Roman Abramovich overrode the league-winning manager and sold one of the best keepers in the world to one of our closest rivals. And one of the main reasons we won the league. There's this cognitive dissonance I'm noticing. Jose Mourinho - wins league - best manager in country - downturn in form - toxic, deserves sack, cancer etc. Eden Hazard - wins league - best player in country - downturn in form - one of few elite players in squad, will come good, needs the right coach. But you don't have to read it and you certainly don't have to wind up fellow Chelsea supporters do you? Maybe i'm just old-fashioned.