Ossie the King

Plus hatred really doesn't come into it. Once again, if you're applying these terms or these analogies to this situation then close the laptop, put on a coat and take a wander to your local. You're in too deep. You've blown it.

Along with forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/20810-no-longer-special-an-outsiders-perspective/#entry1189644 Theres A nice couple of outsiders' perspective pieces. Don't agree with everything but interesting ideas.

So they wouldn't win the league under his tenure? Their brand isn't bulletproof and they need success. They need the league. Hiring Jose would give them a better chance wouldn't it?

I didn't say it was offensive. I said it was extreme and a little bit hilarious to use as an example. If you're on a footy forum talking to your mates and invoke the nazis for the flimsiest of reasons then it's probably time to take a break. The Bizarre tangent this discussion of a football match took probably hasn't got the legs to go much longer and still be worthwhile.

Can we not have a discussion about Chelsea without invoking the nazis or throwing insults at one another? It makes Rhinos Skin's point about the difference between match going fans and the Internet mob quite well and it's tedious. Also Styles, I don't know if you got offended at me calling you a wum so Ill apologise. But whoever you think I am, I'm not.

He built a good team last season and it needed further investment in the summer. He took players who either didn't fit his style or weren't willing or able to adapt or wait, and built a solid starting XI capable of different styles of football. He didn't get the balance right all the time but there was a foundation there. Then what happened this summer? Through a combination of inept transfer dealings and lack of ambition, the board stood still. Whilst city improved, we fiddled and ultimately fell behind. Jose is not perfect. No one is. But he knew what he wanted to improve the team and it wasn't given to him. That contributed to this season, as did some of Joses actions. But we'll never know what might've been. And if he goes to United I reckon they'll finish above us in at least 2 of his first 3 years. That's why their fans would want him.

I'd argue that not only was the 2008 team better than this one, but the top English teams were too. We need significant investment in this squad but we also need to be moving in the right direction. With Jose we had a guy who knew where he wanted to go, even if some didn't like that. Unfortunately he was failed by the board this summer. Now we don't have anyone leading this club in terms of its footballing philosophy. That is for me the biggest issue.

He's a proven winner so why wouldn't they? He'd give them a good shot at winning the league wouldn't he?

I'm perfectly calm. I simply asked how that made him a coward. Don't worry though.

Sorry but when you invoke Nazis, it really had better be for a decent reason. Otherwise it comes across as shock and awe for the sake of it. That type of hatred your describing just doesn't exist in this situation. That's just my view though. I think you're criticising the extremes whilst also contributing to them when the whole situation is much more nuanced than that.

How on earth does that make him a coward? He'll go to a club who are run professionally and have a track record of backing their manager consistently. Let's not bash the guy for making the sensible choice.

Terry, Ballack, Cole, Lampard, Drogba. Bring them back too and maybe.

Little bit extreme. There is obviously a middle ground that many were to blame but now we're in a position where we're listless and have no identity as a club. But it's easier for people to take extreme sides and use nazi analogies to make their point. Which raises an interesting point that if Steve Holland could institute such a change in such a small period of time then why isn't he getting much support to be interim coach?

Guus is the only acceptable choice and bringing Didier back is a smart move. Fuck knows if he has any ounce of coaching nous but it'll bring the mood around the club up. But I have no idea what this means in the short and long term. Whose targets are we buying in January? Hiddink's? The manager we want in the summer? Emenalo's? What type of style of football are we building towards? Emenalo said we're in trouble and he's right. He's a massive part of it. We need a proper technical director.. Maybe Guus could move into that role?

So you're saying that these people who showed their discontent, who have been going for longer than you've been alive in some cases, are interested in José, not Chelsea. Interesting. Or they could be linked and they think their club's best interests aren't being served.

So experiences don't inform your character? Ok. But I'm pretty sure I could read every book on Beirut but still have no idea about what it's like to live there. To know the taste, the smell, the texture of that place and the experience of being there. Anyhoo....

I don't think he said that did he? I'll be honest, I do think there's in general a difference between fans who get to go to the matches and those who don't. How could there not be? Experiences inform our characters and they are vastly different ways of experiencing supporting a club. It's not a criticism or a slight at all, just a statement of fact.

Boooooooooo!! Emotions are running high. I'm sure the lad will apologise in time. Enjoy the warm afterglow of a victory.

Good on you for rising above that. You've made some great points and a lot of people will relate to them. Obviously some will ignore them because they don't want them to be true but name calling really is tacky and pointless.

Wow.... I think you're undermining the very point you're trying to make. Whether you agree or not are insults really the answer? We're all supposed to be Chelsea supporters here. Calling a fellow supporter a twat.... What is this club attracting nowadays?

City's best idea was to hire football men (from Barca) and let them get on with it. José was that for us, but the board didn't back him fully so now we're left with a vacuum. That's where the lack of consistency is evident. City have a cohesive long term plan whereas we're making it up as we go along.

Think you might catch some flack for that from certain quarters, but I think you're hitting some nails on their heads.To see some people deriding the fans for expressing themselves beggars belief.

I thought the post was quite clear. No problem, but I think it was quite understandable. You'll forgive me for not wanting to rewrite it I hope.

I know that there's some on here who have such a low opinion of the fans in the ground that they think they can be easily manipulated. We're not perfect but I happen to think Chelsea supporters are amongst the most savvy supporters in the game.....and the best looking too. I think they have a decent idea about who is giving their all on the pitch and who isn't. Oscar has struggled for consistency and Matic has actually been getting back to his best so I wouldn't lump them in with Costa who turned up for the start of the season overweight and has been atrocious and sulky for much of the season. You're well within your rights to disagree with the fans actions and you've done that far more respectfully than others. But I think you need to understand the level of frustration and loss that some fans are feeling, not just at losing Jose but a few bigger things too.

Unfortunately we are not an attractive proposition for Pep when the City job is waiting for him. They are a far better run club who show much more ambition than us and they are perfectly set up for him.