pattieboyd

"I really like to tackle." - EMBOABA, Oscar.
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"I really like to tackle." - EMBOABA, Oscar.
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"I really like to tackle." - EMBOABA, Oscar.
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"I really like to tackle." - EMBOABA, Oscar.
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"I really like to tackle." - EMBOABA, Oscar.
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I thought people would change their minds about Oscar after the disasterous couple of games we had without him but I guess it's just impossible for him to please our fans.
I think the issue is that people are comparing him to creative n10s the likes of Silva,Ozil,James.. He's not that type of player and probably never will be.
He leads the pressing in the team and maintains defensive stability. He retains possession, plays small combinations with the other attacking players and helps our star player shine(Hazard). He has a fair amount of goals/assists a season for someone who isnt the focal point of his team. It's no surprise we had players like Eden and Fabregas underperforming while he was not playing. He's a modern day n10.

#neverforget

#neverforget

#neverforget

Come back please.

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The thing is though skipper, every one of those arguments are infinitely more convincing that anything you or others criticizing Oscar have presented.
You say that he hasn't improved much in 3 years, that he won't ever be better than he is now, and that his general play isn't good enough for the standards of this club but whether you choose to accept it or not, the numbers do show a clear progression in terms of creativity so he has improved significantly in this aspect. Saying that he hasn't made any great strides in his development is simply false. Maybe that improvement isn't good enough for your standards, but regardless it's still a significant progression from his first season here.
You then argue that he won't ever be better than he is now. That isn't an argument. That's a hunch. A hunch that could be wrong or that could be right. Either way, it's inconsequential. Di Maria went from a frustrating and inconsistent player one year to being voted in the world XI and Argentina POTY above Messi. It's not such an inconceivable idea that Oscar can still improve and develop into an elite player.
On the subject of his general play, that's a valid argument. But you and others on here act like his general play has been poor all season. That isn't true though. If you scan old comments on this thread starting from August, there were hardly any complaints about Oscar's passing for much of the first half of the season. It wasn't until Spurs away then Newcastle at home that consistent complaints of his sloppy passing began emerging. His general play has been dire recently, but it hasn't been a season long occurrence. Btw, since that game against Newcastle at the Bridge, Oscar has since played 90 mins against Swansea, Bradford, Liverpool, City and then 70 mins against Villa. He's played a lot of games in a short period so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could be exhausted.
Also, when criticizing Oscar's general play, people fail to realize or note that the team's passing overall has been turgid for a few months now. Matic has been misplacing one too many passes. Cesc has had his share of sloppy games. Even Hazard's general play has dropped significantly when a few months ago, he was unplayable. My point is that, I think you're putting a lot of weight into Oscar's recent performances but that doesn't give an accurate reflection of the way he's performed all season. You're only saying that Willian will do better in that role because he's in form now but Willian hasn't been performing the way he is now all season long.
I think you're an awesome poster and pretty much the sweetest member on here, but I think you've made up your mind about Oscar and you're using a blip of poor performances as justification.

Oh? I was wondering what the hell was this thing on his leg:

I wasn't talking about Oscar per se despite this being his thread, what I am trying to say is it may sound good signing a flashy number 10 and a "right midfielder like Hazard" but unless there prepared to do donkey work we will face the same problems against well balanced sides just like Real do against Atletico (I called it in the summer that Leti will have the beating of Real this season, im not remotely surprised by the record Real simply have too many "best players" if that makes sense).Also Oscar's productivity has improved a lot this season anyway, he has scored 6 goals this season and 5 have opened the scoring, Palace and Newcastle especially could well have ended up in dropped point's if Oscar didn't score when he did and the Villa and Swansea goals set the tempo for an easy match.
If we lift the title in May, Oscar and Willian have earned their medals as much as anyone.

I personally feel that Oscar is an important part of our team. Sure he isn't up there with the best no.10s in the world yet but he's still the 2nd best no.10 in the PL (behind Silva, who is awesome tbh). He's better than Mata, Coutinho, Ozil and Eriksen (who are all very good themselves) IMO because he is very good in defence as well as being good in attack too. He effectively links our midfield and our attack and is contributing with a large amount of goals and assists so far this season.
He's nowhere near the complete player and hasn't progressed as much as most of us were hoping but he is still very young and has time to keep developing to make himself into a top player. He needs to work on his passing (which at times can be erratic - so frustrating to watch a player play a 25 yard through ball perfectly then muff up a 5 yard sideways pass) and his worrying tendency to go missing in games (doesn't happen that often to be fair, but still worrying).
I personally still have high hopes for him to make his passing game more complete and to become more consistent as a footballer. He's currently a very good footballer and is an important player in our system. Unless we plan on signing someone notably better than him in his position (Who is there really? Isco? Doubt he's available for a non-ridiculous price) I am very happy to persist with believing in Oscar and hoping that he will develop his game in the next 2/3 years and can become a Chelsea legend.

I agree on his sloppiness - I agree he's inconsistent. I just find it harsh 1) to ignore his impact LAST match and mention he was sloppy because of 5 passes uncompleted in the second half. People said it in the post match thread and in this thread. They were talking about the Swansea match. It's like they're like 'he did okay, scored twice, BUT was sloppy in the second, BUT lost the ball many times or misplaced many passes'.
Then another discussion started - which I said I agree partially. He's been inconsistent. We should expect more from him, but at the same time, there's only much is fair to ask from a 23yo. Some players peak later than others and I think he's been doing okay lately and has done in some streaks in the past. I for one am happy it's still winter - when he normally struggles - and he's finding his best form. Last season he was in a free fall following the Saints' match where he and Willian won us the match in 20 minutes (the last 20) in the first week of the year.
It's not that we can't say he has to do better, is completely writing him off in the future - as some did, including Skipper, which surprised me - ignoring his age and comparing him to other players either more experienced or playing a completely different kind of opposition. I don't like comparisons in the first place. Mata could be the best player of the league in other country and inexpressive in EPL. KdB found his best form in German football, while here - despite receiving few chances - he didn't seem to fit (seemed a bit too soft, both physically and mentally).
Just because one recognizes the kid has been impacting our games despite not being on his best technically doesn't mean we're ignoring his shortcomings. We're just giving him credit for what he's been good and also recognizing some improvement without ignoring he's still a work in progress.
I feel like I've been repeating myself on this thread over and over for the last three days. We all have different instances on him. Some think his 'supporters' are delusional or blind, others think his critics are too harsh and unfair.
While he scores and assists 8 times in 9 games I won't complain much, I'll at most address some shortcomings, but along with a lot of praising for return. Which other AM has had such return in his latest 9 matches? Fans from other teams would be all over the moon with the substantial and impacting contribution. Chelsea fans are demanding him to be the end product right now and nitpicking five misplaced passes in a second half where we were winning 4-0.
How many times people demanded Oscar and Hazard to impact more directly in the matches? Hazard got some very late recognition about his contributions, and Oscar seems to be on even later recognition. IT seems like we're demanding everything at once. Consistency, creativity, direct impact, growing big balls and resolving when we're struggling. That's too harsh imo. Let the kids grow and mature their games, tactics, deal with their limitations and improve what they aren't naturally doing well. They ARE work in progress
I think you've skipped most of the talking in this thread before the Swans match. Many people weren't asking for him to be dropped, but to be replaced by a new signing altogether saying he's not Chelsea material. there aren't many 23yo around the world I'd call Chelsea material tbh.

I guess the problem I have with most of these criticisms of Oscar is that too much significance and value is being placed on something that doesn’t really make a huge difference to the team’s success when looked at in the larger context of the player’s overall contributions. Oscar’s passing can be frustratingly sloppy sometimes, that’s a fair assessment but on the other hand his productivity has been mightily impressive. So while Oscar might be ”failing” in one or two aspects of his role as a number 10, he’s also highly performing in many other aspects of his job. The positives very much outweigh the negatives so I’m confused why so much more importance and value is being placed on him misplacing 10 or so passes than on his excellent output this season. I just think that there’s something very frivolous in complaining about the sloppiness of a player’s passing when that player's direct contributions to 13 goals in the league has helped the team maintain a title challenge. Ultimately, his input in 13 goals is so much more valuable to the team’s success than him being able to complete 85% of his passes in every game.
People have every right to criticize him, but others also have every right to say that these people criticizing Oscar are nitpicking. 23 years old, 6 goals and 7 assists, and here we are complaining that he routinely misplaces 5-10 easy passes, hmmm...
Well, in an ideal world yes but in the real world you have average players who are excellent passers of the ball and excellent players who are average passers. Nuances like that exists. Assessing a player's contribution to his sides's attacking play only by how high his pass completion is seems like a very skewed way of judging a player's talent.

This.
Oscar has a significant amount of time on his side. At 23 at this level, he has mammoths of potential.
The industrious nature of his play has been taken for granted by many, a lot do not seem to understand he's not a traditional #10. He excels in creating space, spreading play, receiving and passing the ball in tight spaces. There are moments where he makes some intelligent runs, and his vision in general is showing some auspicious progression. There's crystal clear evidence of creativity there, and anyone with half a brain would figure that there's a promising playmaker in development. This is all omitting the fact that he has a defensive capacity for the Premier League. His tenacious attitude that shows he is willing to work hard for Mourinho is admirable; he implements a creditable amount of unselfish shifts into his play. He has a firm understanding of how this team works and is capable of switching places with Fabregas to support or to create opportunity for the team. In fact, his movement off the ball and synergy with most of the outfield players that the team have, is praiseworthy as a whole. How some are suggesting, that buying a new attacking midfielder who would then miraculously slot into this role and significantly improve the team, is short sighted to say the least.
Could Oscar have performed better yesterday? Obviously. The entire team could have, though. There were aspects of his play which seem to have been ignored. In the first half, he spent a lot of time around the left flanks in order to shut down players such as Sissoko and Cabella, who were indisputably Newcastle's biggest threats.
Give this guy time; it's almost guaranteed that he will eventually start to ooze world class quality.

You can play "well" and statistically have nothing to show for that performance.
Conversely, you can have a below-par game and end up with a well-taken goal and a genius assist.
I'm quite happy seeing more of the latter.
For his entire Chelsea career, Oscar's contribution has been for the team and rarely ever individual. By that, I mean he isn't an archetypal number ten. He is the least glamorous of our attacking players based on the role he does for the team, which is not to score or assist goals; his role is to be a combative little terrier in the middle of the park who effectively acts as a screen in front of our two pivot midfielders. He pops up with the odd goal and assist because he often plays a lot deeper than the number 10s mentioned above. The way he interchanges with Hazard, Willian and Fabregas is excellent and his versatility makes him a very useful player for us. José could "let him off the leash" and allow him to play his natural game, but for our present 4-2-3-1 system to work it requires more of a box-to-box player in the number ten role; something Mata simply couldn't fulfil. I think Oscar is a terrific player whose contribution to the team shouldn't be measured by assists and goals. If we were to let him have free rein, he'd pop up with 15 goals a season and 15 assists. But if we did that, defensively we'd be horrific.
I'd agree, he might occupy the number ten position on the starting line-up whenever Sky do their thing pre-match, but the reality is he does have a free role behind the striker - but unusually it is more of a defensive role than an attacking one. Whichever way you choose to define it, he's a top midfielder and shouldn't be judged on the goals and assists he provides because ultimately Oscar's contribution to the team is the lung-bursting run he makes to get back and make a tackle after having supported attack after attack. His engine is incredible, but because we were spoiled by having some incredible attacking midfielders, not least Lampard, Ballack, Essien et al., anyone who plays as an advanced midfielder for Chelsea has to score 15+ goals a season, just like Frank did.
The fact is he is now starting to show more individual impact upon the game in terms of goals and assists is positive, IMO. He shouldn't be judged on that output but nonetheless he is an attacking midfielder and will be expected to offer goals and assists.

Well, I think his first half was one of the worst performances I've watched from a player in a big club.
Still he scored the goal when we needed it the most, and while it was a tap in, he was there. So I guess that counts a bit?
I said in the live thread he needed a hat trick for the whole match performance to be considered even decent.
I think he improved a lot in the second, he was firmer in the pressing, in the tackling, seemed like good, old Oscar defending (as he was quite sloppy even on that in the first). He cut off the incomplete passes and tried 2-3 times a more daring pass, one of them resulting in the assist for the second goal.
The way people - at least in the live thread - completely disregarded that assist is sinful. Had it been Eden or Cesc they would be sucking their D until there was no tomorrow.
It doesn't make up for the terrible first half he had, but 1) he wasn't the only one, no one, except Cech had a good first half imo; 2) we keep asking our AMs to be more decisive, to win us matches... then the kid despite having a bad technical match scores a goal and has a beautiful assist but most people disregard it.
As I said, those isolated things and a few other good things he did in the second don't cancel the atrocious first half he had, but they deserve credit, although unsurprisingly, because it's Oscar, he gets nearly none.

Our defense let us down today. Oscar's performance wasn't even that bad, but I understand the decision to bring Ramires on, though I don't think he made much of a difference.

LOL! People really want them to be Cersei and Jaime Lannister. I think she is a couple of years younger than him.

LOL! People really want them to be Cersei and Jaime Lannister. I think she is a couple of years younger than him.