Mohammed Seif

A couple of points. The demand for us to pray was not from the profit. It was in the Quran. As I told you in PM to answer your question, Mohammed is a messenger. His message was the Quran. He had to teach us. So God asked us to pray in the Quran, Mohammed taught us how. As I told you the commands come from the Quran and the teachings through Mohammed. So that answers your question. No I am not a Quran only Muslim. I read hadiths too. But humand are unique. We have minds that calculate interpret and seeks reason. Now, if I see a Hadith, that doesn't make sense or adds a law I ask myself simple questions? Was God too lazy to say them? Does God have a limited Brain like us ( his creation) that can forget? The answers to me are no. So after putting the hadith to the test I decide to either accept it or reject it as the Quran also requires me to do so. You must have noticed a lot of verses in the Quran where God asks, "Don't you understand?, Can't you think? Can't you observe?" and other questions that basically ask us to use our brain. Now Islam being used politically. Currently yes, but that is not because there is no distinction between Islam and Politics. If you want to look at Islam in it is simplest form, it is divided into two main aspects. The first has to do with way you believe in God, the tenants....etc. It is stated in the Quran that this is between oneself and his creator. The second aspect is the social aspect. Basically it is how to treat people based on certain moral concepts. Now people using religion in politics is not a new thing. It has been used before in Christianity in the past. Remember the crusaders. As a half British, Remember why Henry the 8th made himself head of the Church. Certain phases that nations go through form an environment that allows such mixture to grow and exercised.

Exactly, simply because both are just political acts . Dude, Muslims have the Quran. The "laws" are in the Quran not in a hadith. All Muslim Scholars know that by the way.

LOL. Don't be amazed, apostates is not the Quran. Yeah it is a real shock to you since you just assumed that based on the media . Here is a teaser, Sharia law does not exist. Fact by the way.

No mate not really. Chelsea fans are few in Kuwait. Most people are either Madrid fans or Barca fans

I have got no problem if the mods are cool with it and if it is in a respectful manner. However, this war is not a religious war or related to religion. It is purely political.

Mate if you want to continue in PM then do so. But when you call me out in public, I am responsible to answer back in public. 1) Non of what I stated was based on opinions. I was transparent enough to put the verse and its interpretation from the most spread English translations of the meanings of Quran. 2) You have no clue what the early practices of Muslims are. You repeat basically what is being put by regular Islamophobes or specific historians you read for. Other historians have differnt opinions including Lesley Hazelton, who is a Jew and has wrote books about the life of Mohammed and the Sunni -Shiaa conflict. 3) I already said in my reply to hanrar, that radicals use these texts for their political agenda. I am well aware of that, I happen to be from the land where the Muslim Brotherhood was formed and from it all those other groups including Hamas. Not to mention my knowledge of how this works goes back to about 15 years ago. I have primary knowledge in that matter, not just readings. 4) Theologians study the languages of those scriptures in order to understand properly the texts. Otherwise it will be a language course. Most Muslims don't speak Arabic, but guess what, they read the Quran in Arabic and try to understand their meanings. The amount of Scholars who come from Asia and Africa to Al Azhar institution in Egypt is a lot. To demonstrate, you referred ti unbelievers so many times. the word in that text in Arabic is كافرون and the noun of it is كفر. Pronounced as Ka Fa Ra. Find the meaning of it if you can. 5) People who leave Islam get killed!? I don't think so. That Hadith again defies the Quran and nothing in the Quran states so. That does not happen. When it does, then it is exceptions and people are punished for. Executed to be precise. Even that Sudanese lady you converted to Christianity got freed because these actions are not accepted by Muslims. Whoever want to believe good for him, who ever doesn't want to good for him. Humans do not judge fellow humans on faith. It is for God and God only. 6) About Muslims increasing because of birthrate! Come on man. That is weak. If you have any clue about the lives people are live, you will just know that this is just absolute nonsense. The poverty, poor health system, lack of security do not lead to more breeding. Trust me. LOL. Plus it is also lame to think that a faith will spread that fast because Muslim men are more fertile or than Muslim females are just baby machines. Seriously man this point is making me laugh so hard. 7) The word Coptics means civilian in ancient Egyptian. Pahroah means king. So I am a Coptic. 8) Christians in Egypt ( Orthodox Christians) have been suffering for a while. But again that is a false accusation when you blame it on Muslims. Muslims too have been suffering. All Egyptians have been suffering. You go back and watch the feeds of the 25th of January revolution. When the Egyptians were fighting the police. See who was protecting the Muslims as they prayed and who was guarding the Churches. Don't do like the Muslim Brotherhood and mix religion with politics 9) After the second wave of revolution, 30th of July, when we ousted the Muslim Brotherhood president and party, Churches got burned by pro Morsi Supporters. Guess who was fighting those Muslim Brotherhood supporters and still are. Muslims and Christians. 10) Yes Christians are not allowed in Egypt to insult Mohammed or the Quran. They will go to Jail for that. Christians are not allowed to Insult Moses and Judaism or they will go to jail. Christians are not even allowed to insult Jesus or Christianity or they will will go to jail. Guess what, same applies to Muslims regarding their faith and other people's faith. So that racism card doesn't really work. We are to respect each others religion and people with in our faith. Again, whatever a person believes in is only between him and God. More Muslims have went to jail n Egypt for insulting religions than Christians by the way. 11) In you post you were amazed that people are not alot to "insult" Mohammed ( mind I tell you it is a totally non ethical point) and yet you want me to accept what Ibn Kathir says. Ibn Katheer is a scholar PERIOD. The four Imams are scholars PERIOD. We are not sheep or cattle. We have brains to think and analyze. This world is not static and as we progress as a human race, we take that knowledge we gain and apply it. And by the way the site you referred tp, it is a Salafi site. People whose minds are stuck back in time for over a thousand years ago. 12) As for what you have quoted from the Bibile, I am proud to say that I have studied Christianity in the Christian College I was in back in the U.S. I will refrain from going into comparative religion debate, since such topics are sensitive to members and the objective was not to debate religion and faith, but merely to answer a question about my faith. 13)You have to have better sources than the TV , social media and newspaper man. How know how people think in the west very well. I have brought up in a British system and lived in the U.S for a while. I have heard it all and debated it all. 14) The funniest thing is, that these exact debates I have with radicals and Islamophobes. The only difference is the Islamophobes try to use these verses to bash Islam and the radicals use the same verses to justify what they do. Buddy I have been studying Islam in a British system since I was 7 years old. I know what I am talking about very well. Now feel free to continue this in the PM. But if you call me in public I have to respond in public.

@MrExcalibur100, Now for the sake of transparency, I had to answer you in public. No harsh feelings

No problem body. Really simple just long Let us start with the first shall we. Surat Al Tawba verse 9. Again for the sake of transperancy I will put the Arabic text and the translation of Yousef Ali. Now Surat Al Tawba verse 30. وَقَالَتِ الْيَهُودُ عُزَيْرٌ ابْنُ اللَّهِ وَقَالَتْ النَّصَارَى الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ قَوْلُهُم بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ يُضَاهِؤُونَ قَوْلَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِن قَبْلُ قَاتَلَهُمُ اللَّهُ أَنَّى يُؤْفَكُونَ 30. The Jews call ’Uzair a son Of God, and the Christians Call Christ the Son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate What the Unbelievers of old Used to say. God's curse Be on them: how they are deluded Away from the Truth! Typical misquotation and interpretation. You assumed that because God condemns it, it means that Muslims, have to act upon it and go fight Jews. You forgot to also accuse Muslims that they should fight Christians. LOL. Thus you are ignoring basic principles taught to Muslims in elementary schools. That is no Muslim should judge anyone on his faith. The judgement is for God and only God when we die and meet him. The simple verse that 10 yr olds learn as I did is as follows: Surat Al Ghashia, verses 21-26 21- فَذَكِّرْ إِنَّمَا أَنتَ مُذَكِّرٌ 22 -لَّسْتَ عَلَيْهِم بِمُصَيْطِرٍ 23- إِلاَّ مَن تَوَلَّى وَكَفَرَ 24- فَيُعَذِّبُهُ اللَّهُ الْعَذَابَ الأَكْبَرَ 25- إِنَّ إِلَيْنَا إِيَابَهُمْ 26- ثُمَّ إِنَّ عَلَيْنَا حِسَابَهُمْ 21. Wherefore do thou give admonition, for thou art, one to admonish. 22. Thou art not one to manage (men's) affairs. 23. But if any turn away and reject God,— 24. God will punish him with a mighty punishment, 25. For to Us ( God) will be their Return; 26. Then it will be for Us ( God) to call them to account. Clearly states that the only one who will judge people upon their faith is God. Not another human being, Muslim or non. There is a whole and other versus saying the same. But again talk without true knowledge does not lead to much my friend. I suggest you read more. Not to mention that you TOTALLY IGNORED the first verse that says you do not fight unless you are attacked. That was just a very bad move. Let us go for the Second account you have. Surat Al Fateh verse 29 مُّحَمَّدٌ رَّسُولُ اللَّهِ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاء عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاء بَيْنَهُمْ تَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعًا سُجَّدًا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلا مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانًا سِيمَاهُمْ فِي وُجُوهِهِم مِّنْ أَثَرِ السُّجُودِ ذَلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِي الإِنجِيلِ كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَهُ فَآزَرَهُ فَاسْتَغْلَظَ فَاسْتَوَى عَلَى سُوقِهِ يُعْجِبُ الزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ الْكُفَّارَ وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ مِنْهُم مَّغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا 29. Muhammad is the Apostle Of God; and those who are with him are strong against unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (In prayer), seeking Grace From God and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their Marks, (being) the traces Of their prostration. This is their similitude In the Taurāt And their similitude In the Gospel is: Like a seed which sends Forth its blade, then Makes it strong; it then Becomes thick, and it stands On its own stem, (filling) The sowers with wonder And delight. As a result, It fills the Unbelievers With rage at them. God has promised those Among them who believe And do righteous deeds Forgiveness, And a great Reward. Now this point is REALLY weak. The only reference God makes in this verse to the Jews and the Christians, is in by basically saying " there are example of those Muslims, who are pray and seeking God's grace in the Turah (i.e Jews) and in the Gospel ( i.e. Christians). Another reason to actually like the Jews and the Christians. You check out what the Jewish Scholars say about Muslims and that all prophets are. Here is one of many videos from Jews Now the part about Muslim being merciful with each other and harsh on " non-believers" . Do you have the slightest idea who the non-believers that the text is talking about specifically? I hardly doubt. They are the non-believers of the tribe Quraish. Yes the ones who tortured Muslim, killed Muslims, the ones that believed in slavery based on skin color and social status, the ones who used to bury born baby girls alive because they believed they would bring shame to them and wanted only male offsrpings.......etc. They were the enemies who killed Muslims at the time. No video cameras at the time or a press so I can't claim a Holocaust. But let us go back to the verse. " Muhammad is the Apostle Of God; and those who are with him are strong against unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other". Now bearing in mind who those non believers are, now that I told you, where does it say go kill them? It says to be strong against them right? Tough against them right? Sure I do the same to my enemies if they have killed my mother,father,daughter,son, wife, friend. Wouldn't you? Is than an ABNORMAL FEELING to any human. But it doesn't say go kill them does it? And it is referring to a specific time and a specific enemy during that specific time. You really want to know what we should do with unbelievers? I really doubt, because if you wanted we have a whole chapter (short) telling us how we deal with non believers. Here Surat Al Kaferoon ( Chapter "Unbelievers" . "no faith") 1- قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ 2- لا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ 3- وَلا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ 4- وَلا أَنَا عَابِدٌ مَّا عَبَدتُّمْ 5- وَلا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ 6- لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ 1- Say: O ye that reject Faith! (unbelievers) 2. I worship not that Which ye worship, 3. Nor will ye worship That which I worship. 4. And I will not worship That which ye have been Wont to worship, 5. Nor will ye worship That which I worship. 6. To you be your Way, And to me mine. Hmmmmm, anything about killing here mate? This is a chapter for the unbelievers. As you have realized, God is telling Mohammed and other Muslims nothing about killing or fighting. Unlike the other verses that had specific events and reasons for fighting. Again only to defend. But you missed that. A whole chapter for what English translators refer to as unbelievers, people with no faith, infidels....etc and God doesn't tell Muslim to to something. Just Muslims have their way of worship and non believers have theirs. No compulsion! No if you don't believe Muslims should go kill. I assume you mean ofcourse by non believers, non Muslims/non Christians/non Jews. You are clearly fishing for something here . Whatever God thinks is for God not for me as a human being to act on his behalf. If all Jews believe in Jesus then why aren't they Christians. Isn't it through Jesus lies salvation. Jews believe in Judaism and that that is the way to heaven. Other ways not acceptable. Christians believe that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ no other way. So you do you want to hold it against Muslims who believe that the way to heaven is through Islam? . And at the end of the day, there will come a time when we will be judged and the only one who can do this is the Creator. Not a human being like I said. Hence, no Muslim is allowed to judge any faith even anyone from his own faith. faith is something in the heart. The part about God doesn't see Muslims and non-Muslims equal.. Your words kind of fail you here my friend. There are non- Muslims, like the people of the Holy books that believe in God i.e Christians and Jews. And there are Non-Muslims as in others who do not believe in God or have any other faiths. To make it easy and short, THAT SPECIFIC TEXT Surat Al Anfal, verse 55, was for MUSLIMS TELLING THEM NOT TO BE HYPOCRITES NOT DIRECTED TO NON BELIEVERS OR CHRISTIANS OR JEWS. Man you really messed that one up. Let us see, so we will start from verse 45. We don't want to misquote or take out of context do we? 45 - يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ إِذَا لَقِيتُمْ فِئَةً فَاثْبُتُواْ وَاذْكُرُواْ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا لَّعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ 46- وَأَطِيعُواْ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَلاَ تَنَازَعُواْ فَتَفْشَلُواْ وَتَذْهَبَ رِيحُكُمْ وَاصْبِرُواْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَ الصَّابِرِينَ 47- وَلاَ تَكُونُواْ كَالَّذِينَ خَرَجُواْ مِن دِيَارِهِم بَطَرًا وَرِئَاء النَّاسِ وَيَصُدُّونَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَاللَّهُ بِمَا يَعْمَلُونَ مُحِيطٌ 48- وَإِذْ زَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الشَّيْطَانُ أَعْمَالَهُمْ وَقَالَ لاَ غَالِبَ لَكُمُ الْيَوْمَ مِنَ النَّاسِ وَإِنِّي جَارٌ لَّكُمْ فَلَمَّا تَرَاءَتِ الْفِئَتَانِ نَكَصَ عَلَى عَقِبَيْهِ وَقَالَ إِنِّي بَرِيءٌ مِّنكُمْ إِنِّي أَرَى مَا لاَ تَرَوْنَ إِنِّيَ أَخَافُ اللَّهَ وَاللَّهُ شَدِيدُ الْعِقَابِ 49- إِذْ يَقُولُ الْمُنَافِقُونَ وَالَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ غَرَّ هَؤُلاء دِينُهُمْ وَمَن يَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللَّهِ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ 50- وَلَوْ تَرَى إِذْ يَتَوَفَّى الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ الْمَلائِكَةُ يَضْرِبُونَ وُجُوهَهُمْ وَأَدْبَارَهُمْ وَذُوقُواْ عَذَابَ الْحَرِيقِ 51- ذَلِكَ بِمَا قَدَّمَتْ أَيْدِيكُمْ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ لَيْسَ بِظَلاَّمٍ لِّلْعَبِيدِ 52- كَدَأْبِ آلِ فِرْعَوْنَ وَالَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ كَفَرُواْ بِآيَاتِ اللَّهِ فَأَخَذَهُمُ اللَّهُ بِذُنُوبِهِمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَوِيٌّ شَدِيدُ الْعِقَابِ 53- ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّ اللَّهَ لَمْ يَكُ مُغَيِّرًا نِّعْمَةً أَنْعَمَهَا عَلَى قَوْمٍ حَتَّى يُغَيِّرُواْ مَا بِأَنفُسِهِمْ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ 54- كَدَأْبِ آلِ فِرْعَوْنَ وَالَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ كَذَّبُواْ بِآيَاتِ رَبِّهِمْ فَأَهْلَكْنَاهُم بِذُنُوبِهِمْ وَأَغْرَقْنَا آلَ فِرْعَوْنَ وَكُلٌّ كَانُواْ ظَالِمِينَ 55- إِنَّ شَرَّ الدَّوَابِّ عِندَ اللَّهِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ فَهُمْ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ 56- الَّذِينَ عَاهَدتَّ مِنْهُمْ ثُمَّ يَنقُضُونَ عَهْدَهُمْ فِي كُلِّ مَرَّةٍ وَهُمْ لاَ يَتَّقُونَ 45. O ye who believe! When ye meet a force, Be firm, and call God In remembrance much (and often); That ye may prosper: 46. And obey God and His Apostle; And fall into no disputes, Lest ye lose heart And your power depart; And be patient and persevering: For God is with those Who patiently persevere: 47. And be not like those who started from their homes insolently and to be seen of men, and to hinder (men) from the path of God: for God compasseth round about all that they do. 48. Remember Satan made their (sinful) acts seem Alluring to them, and said: "No one among men Can overcome you this day, While I am near to you" But when the two forces Came in sight of each other, He turned on his heels, And said: "Lo! I am clear Of you; to! I see What ye see not; Lo! I fear God; for God Is strict in punishment. 49- Lo! the Hypocrites say, and those In whose hearts is a disease: "These people,—their religion Has misled them." But If any trust in God, behold! God is Exalted in might, Wise. 50. If thou couldst see, When the angels take the souls Of the Unbelievers (at death), (How) they smite their faces And their backs, (saying): "Taste the Penalty of the blazing Fire— 51. "Because of (the deeds) which Your (own) hands sent forth: For God is never unjust To His servants: 52. "(Deeds) after the manner Of the People of Pharaoh And of those before them: They rejected the Signs of God, And God punished them For their crimes: for God Is Strong, and Strict in punishment: 53. "Because God will never change The Grace which He hath bestowed On a people until they change What is in their (own) souls: And verily God is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)." 54. "(Deeds) after the manner Of the People of Pharaoh And those before them": They treated as false the Signs Of their Lord: so We Destroyed them for their crimes, And We drowned the People Of Pharaoh: for they were all Oppressors and wrong-doers. 55. For the worst of beasts In the sight of God Are those who reject Him: They will not believe. 56. They are those with whom Thou didst make a covenant, But they break their covenant Every time, and they have not The fear (of God). Ok, now I don't think I will elaborate. But seriously where do you see God talking about non-believers? AAAAHHHHH when he is referring to the people of the Pharaoh of Egypt. Now remind me again what did the Pharoah and his people do? Yes that is right, they enslaved the Jews and fought Moses. My guess is, the Jews don't like the Pharoah either . Other than that, God is talking to Muslims at a specific areas, when during war against the tribe of Quraish, there were hypocrites and liars, who infront of the people talk about their bravery but when a war starts they hide in their homes. Again my friend you fail. There is a specific context the verse is referring too, but as I can really see you just copy pasted that from somewhere and added some of your own. Now are Muslims and non-Muslims in the same to God? As in what, heaven and hell? I think I answered that one already. About the animal part which God is referring to the Pharoah and his people who enslaved the Jews, I guess yeah God doesn't see the Pharoah and his people ACTS the same as the acts of good BELIEVERS IN GOD. i.e Christianity, Judiasm and Islam and any other faiths who believe in God, worship him and nothing but him. Now to your interesting closing points about the Hadith and so on. You know what a hadith is? It is the sayings of Mohammed. You know when they were gathered? Over a century and a half after Mohammed's death. Can you imagine a Chinese whisper game for a century and a half?LOL. Let me make this as clear as possible. The Quran, is memorized and recited on daily basis during that time.It was taught every day and repeated during the 5 daily prayers not to mention the extra prayers. Then it was written. The hadith or the saying is different. It is like me having a conversation with you right now and hanging out in a pub or something. Then later on I go to a friend in a few days and tell him about the conversation that you and I had. What are the chances that I say the exact conversation word for word to me friend? What are the chances that I will keep repeating that conversation word for word? Dude, even the science the we learn, we keep putting it in our own words. The most thing we do is memorize an equation. But defining the equation will differ from you , o another American, to another British.....etc. I am comparing vital teachings here. We want to know a hadeeth is right or not we put it against the Quran. If it contradicts, then we don't take it. Bukhari, Moslem, Abu Huraira, or whomever it is. If it fails then it is dropped. If a Muslim is in doubt about it, he automatically rejects it. If a Muslim is sure of it he can ignore it. As for the accusations you are throwing around about Mohammed and the Muslims at the time going on killing innocents and so on, then you should know better. You should know that there is no truth behind these accusations. Yeah a Muslim can kill, but it is not because his book says to do do. Now you are half British half Nigerian, living in the U.S and possibly continuing your education. So you are a man of intellect and logic I assume. Why is this religion spreading so fast despite of the clear things that think of? Why has such a bloody, violent religion is increasing faster than any other one in Europe and the U.S.? There must be something buddy that you are getting wrong . Like misinterpretations, misquotations, throwing accusations, and false information. Again, what you are trying to imply is nothing solid. If I want to debate Christianity for example, I would have to study it first. Study the language in which it is written to get the original meaning. Understand that culture and time that it was delivered to put things in context. I doubt you know anything about Islam from proper readings or a few Arabic sentences. Same as Judaism, I would need to study the Torah and learn both Hebrew and Aramiac. My Torah teacher should be a Jewish Scholar as my Bible teacher should be a Christian Scholar. Ofcourse that is assuming that I want to really understand without being biased. But if I want to be biased, then I could just listen to any fool who says crap about religions and take things out of contexts and throw it around to make a point. Come on mate, you are better that that. And those questions, they are really simple, but they take a while to write. Oh one more thing The point about us taking a quote from the Torah and putting it in the Quran, you are wrong. I made it clear in my previous post that we have to believe in all the prophets and all the Holy books. Muslims are a continuation of the religions, just like Christianity was a continuation to Judiasm. You will find a lot of similarities. Especially Muslims and Jews. Check that youtube again.

Oh I am replying in public

Now that the game is over I can concentrate and answer you . I will try to be as short as possible. Now when a non Muslim throws a text at me an tells me explain this, one can only assume two motives: a) This person is trying to take a shot at Islam and portray it as a " bloody religion or violent one". In that case my response would be: go somewhere else and spread your hatred and you can stop reading at the end of this sentence. b ) Someone who wants to understand and hence I would say, I am delighted to explain and share my knowledge of my faith, Islam, with you. So keep reading But who am I to judge on what is in people's heart and what intentions they have? For the sake of transparency, I will use the Arabic texts, and the most spread English Translation of Yusuf Ali. Ofcourse feel free to seek any translation you are comfortable with. N.B. Quran is only in Arabic and the translations are attempts by the authors to explain the meaning of the verse in their own choice of words Before we go to the "suspicious" verse, we need to understand some principles and rules in Islam. Rules regarding fighting. Rule 1: Surat Al Baqarah, verse 190 وَقَاتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ الَّذِينَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ وَلاَ تَعْتَدُواْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ الْمُعْتَدِينَ 190. Fight in the cause of God Those who fight you, But do not transgress limits; For God loveth not transgressors. So basically we fight in defense not attack. Attacking others is forbidden. This is the RULE OF ENGAGEMENT. Rule 2: Surat Al-Isra'a, verse 33: وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلاَّ بِالْحَقِّ وَمَن قُتِلَ مَظْلُومًا فَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا لِوَلِيِّهِ سُلْطَانًا فَلاَ يُسْرِف فِّي الْقَتْلِ إِنَّهُ كَانَ مَنْصُورًا 33. Nor take life—which God Has made sacred—except For just cause. And if Anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir Authority (to demand Qiṣāṣ Or to forgive): but let him Not exceed bounds in the matter Of taking life; for he Is helped (by the Law). We are not to take a life wrongfully ( i.e anyone who hasn't killed or is attempting to kill in a war, basically someone shooting at you not someone you think might shoot at you. It has to be immenent like I guy pointing a weapon at you and shooting), and if we do we then we can be either punished or forgiven depending on the family of the victim. The "eye for an eye, life for a life " applies here, as well as forgiveness. So there is a spectrum from death to total forgiveness. In between, that is left for society to decide. i,e. If a society decides that you pay money for the family, then be it. If it decides on execution, then be it. If they decide prison, or social work, again then be it. The point is there are the boundaries and people/society should determine what serves them well. This is put through human made law, such as life in prison. There was a serial killer known in the U.S. called Gary Ridgway who abducted and killed many women. During his sentence, as the U.S judiciary system allows, the family of the victims spoke. All of them wanted him dead for what he did for their sisters, mothers, daughters, wives and families. They wanted him dead for what he did. This is a very natural human feeling in such hurtful times. One of the victim's family was a Priest. He was the only man to say to him that he forgives him. He said that he found the strength of faith that makes him go up that level. Same in Islam, you have the right to seek fair justice, but you can also rise up and forgive, hence we believe we will be rewarded. Now about the payment, like I said, and example will be jail sentence. Another, that you will be familiar with is paying money as compensation, just like the Germans had to pay to the Jews due to the Holocaust. It is an agreed amount that the aggressor pays. In Egypt, if you kill someone wrongfully unintentionally, e.g, car accident, you can face prison or pay compensation or both depending on the circumstances of the accident. Ok, let us now go to the verse that you quoted its translation. Surat Al Tawba, verse 29: قَاتِلُواْ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَلاَ بِالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَلاَ يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلاَ يَدِينُونَ دِينَ الْحَقِّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَابَ حَتَّى يُعْطُواْ الْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍ وَهُمْ صَاغِرُونَ 29. Fight those who believe not In God nor the Last Day, Nor hold that forbidden Which hath been forbidden By God and His Apostle, Nor acknowledge the Religion Of Truth, (even if they are) Of the People of the Book, Until they pay the Jizya With willing submission, And feel themselves subdued. Now let is apply this text to the rules. Should we fight Christians and Jews or any others? Yes, but if and ONLY IF we are defending ourselves from their attack as the rule of engagement says. Such is called in the modern life " National Defense/Security". Notice that the word used is "fight" not kill. i.e. a Muslim doesn't have to kill unless he is forced to like in warfare. So if the enemy/ aggressor surrenders/ gets injured/caught, then I don't have to kill him. If I do, then I have broken the second rule and that is taking a life wrongfully on purpose. This applies to a fight with anyone not just the Jews and Christians. It applies to aggressor Muslims too and everyone else. So you may ask yourself a question, and that is why mention the people of the book i.e. Jews and Christians. That is simply because part of our core faith is to believe in them and know that they follow the same God as ours. We consider Judaism and Christianity as cousin faiths to Muslim.( Ismael and Israel the sons of Ibrahim) Surat Al Baqarah, verse 285: آمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِن رَّبِّهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ كُلٌّ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَمَلائِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّن رُّسُلِهِ وَقَالُواْ سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا غُفْرَانَكَ رَبَّنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ 285. The Apostle believeth In what hath been revealed To him from his Lord, As do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth In God, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) Between one and another Of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, Our Lord, and to Thee Is the end of all journeys." We have to believe in all and not differentiate between them as saying this Prophet is better than that. They are all equal messengers of God in our eyes. An insult to Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, Noah, David, Jacob, Suliman or any is the same. They are all equal to us in value as righteous men and messengers. Also we were told in the Quran, how to disagree and debate with people of different faiths and non believers in God Surat Al Nahl, verse 125 ادْعُ إِلَى سَبِيلِ رَبِّكَ بِالْحِكْمَةِ وَالْمَوْعِظَةِ الْحَسَنَةِ وَجَادِلْهُم بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَن ضَلَّ عَن سَبِيلِهِ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ 125. Invite (all) to the Way Of thy Lord with wisdom And beautiful preaching; And argue with them In ways that are best And most gracious: For thy Lord knoweth best, Who have strayed from His Path, And who receive guidance. If someone acts out side these BASIC concepts, then it is not Islam's fault. It is the Muslim who decided to ignore what Islam says. (Notice the difference between a faith and how people act. If you find a perfect human being please make sure to tell me.) Now, let me also clear out something. A human life is of vast importance to us. Any human life, atheist, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jew, Muslim and any other. Surat Al Ma'eda, verse 32: مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَى بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَن قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَلَقَدْ جَاءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنْهُم بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ فِي الأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ 32. 35 On that account: We ordained For the Children of Israel That if any one slew A person—unless it be For murder or for spreading Mischief in the land— It would be as if He slew the whole people: And if any one saved a life, It would be as if he saved The life of the whole people. Then although there came To them Our Apostles With Clear Signs, yet, Even after that, many Of them continued to commit Excesses in the land. Killing an innocent human life, not a Muslim, not a Jew, not a Christian, A HUMAN LIFE, is like murdering the entire humanity. Well now that I have clarified, the importance of a human life and the rules of engagement and its consequences, let us together see who uses this text that you asked about. 1) A Muslim, who uses it to take advantage of others' lack of knowledge and circumstance, in order to fulfill some sort of an agenda, usually political. 2) An Islamophobe or anti-Muslim, who wants to use texts in the Quran to portray Islam as a religion of violence and blood, again for a specific agenda. 3) A Muslim who wants to impress others by claiming his knowledge of some versus of the Quran. 4) Someone who seeks knowledge regardless of being a Muslim or a non-Muslim. The first and the second are two faces of the same coin. They feed off of each others hate in order to fulfill an agenda. The third is very dangerous, as he has the potential to pass false information to others who lack knowledge and misguide them. The fourth is someone who I respect. He doesn't have to follow the faith by all means, but he wishes to understand so that people can break more barriers and learn to live together better and progress as a human race.A friend recently told me " A mind left poor, is a life not lived. " Mind you, I am not a Sheikh or Imam. But this is really basic knowledge I get as others do from reading the Quran with the attempt to understand the words I am reading and how they relate to each other. In the Quran, we are encouraged to always think and question things. That is how you seek knowledge and understand. So to sum it up: a) Fight back anyone who attacks you including Christians and Jews. ( National Defense) b ) Don't wrongfully but purposely take a life. ( Kill someone who did nothing to you, e.g, civilians or suspects....etc) c) The aggressor can pay Jizyah ; money ( like in the the case of Germany and Israel), prison sentencing/execution/social work depending on society and its' rules d) the aggressor can be forgiven if the family of the victim says so. e)In case of execution, only the criminal will be executed, not his son, friend or any other family member. Anyone not involved should not be harmed. f) Muslims who know their religion value human lives regardless of faith and beliefs and should not engage in any aggression by words or actions. Should always seek knowledge and debate with reason in a pleasant why. ( I ain't a perfect one unfortunately but I have my moments ) So if any Muslim throws a " war verse at you", now you can tell him to go read his book again as he knows nothing. If any Islamophobe wants to have a go at Islam by using random texts, then again, he hasn't read the Quran with a purpose to understand, therefore he will misquote/ misinterpret/ or take out of context and that is sooooooooooo easy to take on. Hope that helped buddy, or shall I call you cousin ? Please feel free to ask other Muslims who studied their religion well and know good Arabic.

Chapter and verse? Nvm. its Surat El Tawba, verse 29

Even if he plays for the B team that will be great. He will have to work at a higher level. He already plays in the Egyptian national team since he was 17 and now he is starter. I am quiet sure he will learn a lot in a club like Sporting and maybe he can have a spot as a sub in the first team.

I really want him to do well. Today 2 more Egyptians from Salah's parent club (Mokawloon or Contractors:) ) joined the Portuguese Liga. But they joined Nacional Madeira. There are also negotiations between Sporting Lisbon and El Ahly for a player called Rami Rabea. Dude this kid is one of my favourites. He is not your typical dribbler, but man is he tactical. He plays as a DM, CB, RB CM. He is as young as Salah, actually he is Salah's captain. He is bigger in size and you would mold him into whatever player you want in those positions. He is not pacey, but good control, passing and shooting. I was really happy when I read the news because I really hate it when youngster with potential remain in Egypt. They get worse due to our poor football foundation and habits.

@Ainsley Harriott, looks like he is getting a piece of the action in the pre season.

You are right it is not true at all. Look at at it from a logical aspect. If the Quran says to kill people who are not Muslims, how will it be the fastest growing religion? Makes no sense. If you go back in history, Christians who follow a very peaceful faith and book have committed many crimes in the name of Christianity. They killed their own in the name of Jesus. Priests used to control mass public. Is that because the Bible say so? NOPE. Corruption, seeking power, illiteracy...... etc. Hence the secularism During that time there were similar conditions in Europe like the ones in the Arab world. Poverty, oppression, lack of education etc. During such times, when basic human rights are not available, people seek a way out of this misery and salvation. So there comes a guy, who claims he knows about religion because he memorized some versus and starts preaching to the non educated. Never studied it or even studied the language of the scriptures and claims to know it all. So the weaker minds, inflexible start to follow blindly. The whole Islamic militant extremism is based on that and other factors. Same as the oppression of Christians in Europe. Did you know that Henry 8th, King of England, made himself the head of the English Church and defied the Pope in order to avoid war? . Had nothing to do with Christianity, but it was political as he couldn't execute his wife (Catherine of Aragon) to marry someone else or else he will get into war with Spain. So he made himself the head of the Church in order to divorce her, get remarried and avoid a war. People who manipulate scriptures and their meanings always have some sort of agenda far from the religion itself.

Lack of education, political agenda, seeking authority, really closed minds If I tell you what it says you will say " he is a Muslim he has to say that". How about you hear it from a historian Jew and a Rabbi?

LOL. If you can't really differentiate between them, then God help you cause all three are different. Not to mention that jihad is not even a group

Biggest lie ever .

You really ought to learn from Moshe Dayan and Golda Meir. Their stubbornness got them no where. Again and for the THIRD time, leave Hamas out of your equation and try to achieve something real with Fateh and the leader of the Palestinians Abbas. Maybe then Israel will feel safer, people in Gaza's life improve (though that needs A LOT of real efforts and financial support) and Hamas will dissolve. But you are going to ignore what I said about Fateh for the fourth time and focus on Hamas right? lol

You invaded Egypt in 1967 and OCCUPIED Sinai. You took part of it back in 1973. We were forced into peace talks as Golda Meir was scared that we will get to Tel Aviv. The U.S. came to your aid to stop us from progressing. Cease fire was called and you were FORCED to give back the rest of Sinai, to avoid anymore of the Egyptian wrath. We allowed you to retreat on a scheduled time line. Never did I say you should talk with Hamas. I percisely said Fateh. But instead you made Fateh look useless and that gave Hamas more credibility. People started saying the talks are always not working since that the Isreali governments keep putting harsh terms. So they say "fine they are not interested, they are stalling and showing the world that they are talking but the truth is they are just doing nothing". Isreal created Hamas indirectly through the oppression of the Palestinians. You want them to go away, then all you have to do is show them that violence will not help them achieve anything for the Palestinians. You show them that by talking with Fateh and ACHIEVING something for a change. That will make the case of Hamas weaker. But to think that through such violence you will stop them, that is an illusion. You make their beliefs stronger and allow them to seek more violence. Sooner or later they will do MUCH more damage than you can imagine if you keep thinking this way. But I guess you don't really care since that you are ready to sacrifice as much lives as you can to achieve an unachievable peace through violence.

Sinai was never yours mate. You had to leave after the Bar Lev defense line that was claimed to be the strongest ever was destroyed and fell in our hands. Not to mention that the losses Israel endured were more than the 1948, 1956 and 1967 combined. Egypt did that with weapons from ww2 technology and after we lost 80% of our air power. So not going for peace was going to cause more trouble. If Israel doesn't take proper peace approaches, this will happen over and over again with Hamas. That will keep bringing your debts higher and economy worse forcing Israelis to go somewhere else. The aid from other countries will not last for long. I don't like Hamas what so ever. I think they are extremist as much as the Isrealis who are pro war are. But you have Fateh. You could have achieved peace through them years ago. Hence forcing Hamas to back down and eventually dissolve. But that ain't the approach. You keep crushing them and oppressing them economically and militarily, forcing more to sympathize with them and join. You think this way you will be secure and the Palestinians will become like the native Americans. Time has proved that this will not happen. You tried wars with Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Palestine. The only peace you achieved was with Egypt and that came due to very high costs you had to pay. As an Israeli, how many people would you like to sacrifice to get security that cannot be achieved by violence? You will keep losing lives and you will not achieve security as long as your approach is through violence. You could achieve that security and recognition through REAL talks. You don't really have to go through all this bloodshed.

Just a question, those definitions are yours?

Lol.... I don't think so mate. If you put any extremist under oppression, occupation, injustice he will act upon his beliefs. The more oppression he is subjected to, the stronger and more fierce he will have for a response. Apply that to Muslim, a Christian, a Hindu, an atheist and yes, a Jew too .

Buddy, extremists are extremists . If any had sense in the first place they wouldn't have been too extreme in their thoughts.

Why do you insist on turning these discussions into a religious issue?????!!!!! Man, chill. It is politics no more.