OhForAGreavsie

Wembley Stadium, 30th October 2016. Very Happy. We better not have a game that Day.

Discussion point: Is finishing third, and therefore dropping into the Europa League, our best hope of qualifying for next season's Champions League?

First I have to admit that I have not read the regulations so I'm basing this comment on my knowledge of NFL tiebreakers, which uefa's version is modelled on after all. Jason may therefore be absolutely right, and my point might be nonsense but... In the NFL, the three-team tiebreakers are applied only untill one team advances or is eliminated. The rankings of the two remaining clubs are then reconsidered using the two-team tiebreakers. In that method a draw at The Bridge and a home win in Kiev would eliminate us, as Blue Lion originally said, since the head to head between Porto and ourselves would favour them. Given that uefa introduced this method because they felt it was fairer, and that they borrowed it from the NFL, it must be at least possible, if not probable, that their Champions League regulations run along the same lines. Just to restate though, I'm being lazy and have not read the rules so Jay could very well be right.

The lack of a break thing has been well and truly exposed for what it always was. An excuse with no truth to it whatsoever.

I don't agree with this. He's as good, or as bad, as he ever was. All that's changed is that people's patience has run out. No longer is anyone, it seems, prepared to excuse his under performing as they had been doing for virtually the whole of Oscar's time here.

I think they'll rotate in midweek. Doubtless some starters will appear but I'd expect quite a few to be excused.

I'm guessing that Jose will guess they will use the same system as against West Ham so, subject to no further personnel changes being forced on them, he'd expect them to line up with; Loris, Walker, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose, Dier, Dembele, Son, Mason, Eriksen, Kane.

Your post was the springboard for what I wanted to say but absolutely not the target of it. Although I hope you'll see that if you read it again, I apologise for allowing the wrong impression to be formed.

Remembering of course Jose's explanation that Kennedy was selected precisely because of the expectation that Norwich would not attack down that flank. Clearly that was just a once in a lifetime lucky guess by a coach who knows nothing. Naturally I didn't realise that the multi trophy winner knew nothing until the experts who spare enough of their time to post in this thread enlightened me. Who knew this was the place to find all of the greatest living exponents of coaching theory? Bloody hell, sarcasm. I must be really tired. Still shouldn't let the inmates get to me though.

All the names you've mentioned frequently hit the first man. You've given a time frame of 2-3 years ago. If I take four years ago as definitely being outside that period and look at season 2011-2012, how much will you give me if I search the archives and find 100 mentions of this problem in that season alone? I'm confident that I would.

Not sure what it is that you're not buying Jay. I'd have thought the fact that you have given a list of players from our current squad blighted by this problem, that we could all name many similarly afflicted players from every Chelsea squad for as far back as our individual memories stretch and that fans of every club could carry out the same exercise, would all underline the accuracy of what I've written. Edit: Didn't take notice of the nice quip in your last line at the first time of reading. Clever.

Next year I will celebrate my 50th anniversary as a Chelsea fan so I've been watching this game for a long while. During that period I've heard, and read, similar comments thousands of times but people don't need to be as old as me to have come across it. I've a feeling that, even if you've been a football fan for just a couple of hours, there's a fair chance you'll have heard, or perhaps said, something very much like this. Often the point is made in the form of a question. For example, "How hard can it be just to beat the first man?" Well, the clue to the answer can be seen in how frequently this issue comes up. Because fans need to complain about this so regularly it must mean that the answer is, "Much harder than it seems." How else can we explain the fact that professional footballers, of all clubs and nationalities, so often fail to manage it?

Thank you for the smile. My favourite post for a long time. (Apart from all of mine of course!)

I didn't see him today but the quotes from City fans chime with what I felt I saw when I watched a lot of KDB in Bremen. There were numerous occasions when I thought he deserved to be dropped but, to my surprise, he never was. There are downsides to almost every player's game, but in Kevin's case these see him drop below the required standard quite frequently.

Did the commentator go on to explain, with carefully drawn diagrams, that 1 + 1 = 2? Perhaps he also promised that next time he will inform the world exactly which day comes immediately after Monday?

And I look forward to your wishes being dashed. We'll see.

Granted the hope of a return to Plough Lane, albeit down the road a bit from their original ground, is why AFC are selling but there is still Kingstonians isn't there? Aren't they likely to want to carry on using the ground and wouldn't that put moral pressure, if not legal requirement, on us to accept them as sitting tenants?

Spending the whole of his career to that date playing for a relegation calibre team I might add. Simply the best - by a mile.

I don't share the opinion that Ruben has been one of our better players whenever he has appeared but let's not argue about that, it'll get us nowhere and we'll end up agreeing to disagree anyway. Given that I've been complaining about Ruben's lack of industry, both in possession and out of it, since around the the time of the Di Matteo to Temp handover, any accusation of brainwashing would be silly. Back then I was asked to compare the chances of Ruben and Jeremie. I said that Jed was a 50-50 shot but that Ruben had virtually no chance unless he bucked his ideas up and that what he needed most of all was a kick up the backside. I was frustrated that last summer it was still necessary for Jose to administer that kick. Frustrated not so much with Ruben as with his coaches. I've acknowledged that Ruben may have had several kicks in private but they clearly hadn't worked. Hence the need for the public one. I like Ruben and I love his talent. I'm desperate that he should make it. I just wish we could inject him with some of Kennedy's hyperactivity. If we could Ruben would be the first name on the team sheet, but since we can't Ruben has to find it within himself. He has to stop waiting around for the game to come to him, as he did once again before being subbed for England's 21s the other night. He has to get more involved in play. When he does something good he has to bust a gut to get on the ball again and dominate, not drift like he often does.

I dislike talking about consistency in footballers. Every footballer's play is inconsistent. Come to that every human being is inconsistent, at everything. Players have a range of performance output which is dictated by their talent. The problem is, those whose general talent is below that required for the level they play at only appear good enough when they are at their very best. The rest of the time, which is most of the time, they struggle. Exactly. He'll be more experienced then, but his talent is what it is and he's stuck with it. I made the same point when he was 21. People told me to wait till he was 24. He has reached his mid 20s and I don't agree with you that there will be any significant change over the next four years. Even if you're right however, I don't see the point of waiting. We need a better contribution from that position, and we need it now. Sitting Oscar on the bench until he is able to be the one who delivers that contribution will be very expensive, will occupy a squad place, and will only slow his supposed progress in any case.

Quality.

I wish you hadn't said that.

Sometimes players look interesting in their highlight vids and sometimes they don't. For me, Grujic is one of those who does not. I'm not saying that it's possible to judge from the video posted above that Grujic is a poor player, but I see no evidence there that he has the potential to become one of the elite. His touch is not anything special and nothing in that video suggests that he has superior body control. Having seen the video my opinion is that these stories emanate from an agent trying to sell top clubs a bowl full of hope, rather than a vision of reality. If my assessment is correct then I suspect we will get him if we make a serious offer. I say this because our track record suggests that, of the big budget clubs, we are the one most likely to be mugged into paying elite level prices for sub-elite players.

The ghost goal was '05 and then in '07 we were eliminated at the semi-final stage on penalties.

Thanks Leif, I understood what you were getting at it's just that your examples operate in entirely different environments. In pop music it is of course possible to be both popular and good but it is just as possible to be popular but not good, or to be good but not popular. It does not work like that in football. In football you get nothing for popularity, everybody loves the way Bournemouth are playing this season. To succeed you have to be good. I know people claim that you can win with luck, as is said about our Champion's League triumph for example, but I'm not buying it. When the oppo don't do what they should it's not because we're lucky, it's because they didn't get the job done. We were not the best squad in the league last season but we had the best player and the best manager. That was enough and it was not luck. When you start talking about fashion I'm way out of my league but I do appreciate that brands need to renew and reinforce their credentials. Everyone knows how recently Jose won trophies and underlined his credentials.