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Jason

Super Frank Thread

Started by Jason,

2,311 posts in this topic
7 minutes ago, Mana said:

You can’t really compare City and Liverpool with Klopp and Pep against Lampard. Please, don’t go there.

I still remember how city was very inconsistent the first season with pep. Many people thought he was not going to make it but he got in the summer the funds to address the problems, defense and goalkeeper. 

Klopp he came in the season that Mourinho got sacked with us. Was very inconsistent as well, remember them getting owned by Sevilla in the final. 

So yes the first year are not good for anyone, hence the comments. 

Usually you should judge by the second season. Not much the first. 

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2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Win the first two season's of Klopp at Liverpool at Chelsea you would be the first to throw your toys out of the pram and say he's not good enough.

Klopp put Liverpool to the Europa League final, first season with a shite squad. Klopp’s first season was already damaged because of Rodgers. Klopp had a way better CV than Lampard and Sarri put together at the time. I’ll definitely be more patient with him.

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1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

You know that Pep would want to commit Suicide if he had our squad right?
There is maybe Kova and Jorgi for Peps style of play. Thats it

Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk
 

Reece James too

and I think he would fancy Tomori

maybe maybe Pulisic

thats it

 

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3 minutes ago, Mana said:

Klopp put Liverpool to the Europa League final, first season with a shite squad. Klopp’s first season was already damaged because of Rodgers. Klopp had a way better CV than Lampard and Sarri put together at the time. I’ll definitely be more patient with him.

You wouldn't have moaned insessently when he lost to Swansea/Saints and Wolves at home within a week and followed it up shortly after with an away defeat at Hull?

You would have stood by him when he was given Karius chance after chance and glorified a home draw with West Brom?

I find that very hard believe.

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4 minutes ago, Fernando said:

He's the best for what we trying to do in the coming seasons. He is building a base to work with in the next season.I do expect us to be better next season. 

LOL

It seems you believe this board do have a long term plan for "coming seasons". Mate, Lampard was appointed and the kids were introduced basically for 2 reasons: Sarri walked away and transfer ban happened. Lampard was the best choice for this season. With no new players coming and without a manager the best thing to do was to introduce kids and go after a club legend to make the fans happy and involved with the club during the season.

Its a little optimistic to think that Lampard appointment and the use of academy is a product of a long term plan. I will go as far as saying that the likes of Mason Mount, Tomori, James and Abraham were not in the club plans for this season, and they are only involved in the first team because of the transfer ban.

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6 minutes ago, Mana said:

Klopp put Liverpool to the Europa League final, first season with a shite squad. Klopp’s first season was already damaged because of Rodgers. Klopp had a way better CV than Lampard and Sarri put together at the time. I’ll definitely be more patient with him.

Given your moaning record on here, I highly doubt it. 

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6 minutes ago, Fernando said:

I still remember how city was very inconsistent the first season with pep. Many people thought he was not going to make it but he got in the summer the funds to address the problems, defense and goalkeeper. 

Klopp he came in the season that Mourinho got sacked with us. Was very inconsistent as well, remember them getting owned by Sevilla in the final. 

So yes the first year are not good for anyone, hence the comments. 

Usually you should judge by the second season. Not much the first. 

But Pep sent City to the Champions League place with that average squad.

Granted, the season isn't over yet and MAYBE United, Wolves and Sheffield Utd will screw up so bad that we are able to hang on to top 4 with our inconsistency results.

But that’s a big maybe. We shouldn’t even be 4th right now, but we still are.

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2 minutes ago, Mana said:

But Pep sent City to the Champions League place with that average squad.

Sarri sent us to the CL with an even worse squad but you never had a nice word to say about him.

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2 minutes ago, Mana said:

But Pep sent City to the Champions League place with that average squad.

Granted, the season isn't over yet and MAYBE United, Wolves and Sheffield Utd will screw up so bad that we are able to hang on to top 4 with our inconsistency results.

But that’s a big maybe. We shouldn’t even be 4th right now, but we still are.

Benitez season is all i can tell you. Go and see that season and you will see that the same thing is happening. You will ask how the heck we finish 3rd? Because everyone else is bad. 

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2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

You wouldn't have moaned insessently when he lost to Swansea/Saints and Wolves at home within a week and followed it up shortly after with an away defeat at Hull?

You would have stood by him when he was given Karius chance after chance and glorified a home draw with West Brom?

I find that very hard believe.

I’m not a Liverpool fan. Those are Liverpool players.

But yes I still would moan now and again, if Courtois was Karius and Klopp stuck by him. I don’t like favouritism.

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Given your moaning record on here, I highly doubt it. 

Being more patient doesn’t mean I won’t moan now and again.

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7 minutes ago, Henrique said:

LOL

It seems you believe this board do have a long term plan for "coming seasons". Mate, Lampard was appointed and the kids were introduced basically for 2 reasons: Sarri walked away and transfer ban happened. Lampard was the best choice for this season. With no new players coming and without a manager the best thing to do was to introduce kids and go after a club legend to make the fans happy and involved with the club during the season.

Its a little optimistic to think that Lampard appointment and the use of academy is a product of a long term plan. I will go as far as saying that the likes of Mason Mount, Tomori, James and Abraham were not in the club plans for this season, and they are only involved in the first team because of the transfer ban.

It could be true but now that this has happened I bet you that the board will now continue with it. After the financial loss that we had they might be more inclined to continue with Lampard if he continues with the youth and if in the second season he improves.

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6 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Benitez season is all i can tell you. Go and see that season and you will see that the same thing is happening. You will ask how the heck we finish 3rd? Because everyone else is bad. 

If Leicester turns shite now and opens up that 3rd place, then yeah it’s the same. But at the moment, only 4th place is up for grabs and United are 6 points behind with a game in hand. And we have United coming up soon.

If we get out of the next 3 fixtures (+ Bournemouth) without losing that top 4 spot, then maybe I’d agree with you.

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14 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Win the first two season's of Klopp at Liverpool at Chelsea you would be the first to throw your toys out of the pram and say he's not good enough.

Spot on. Klopp would never have lasted at Chelsea with his initial time in the first couple of seasons at Liverpool. Even up to 18 months ago, despite Salah having a Ronaldo/Messi esque season and spending £80m on Van Dijk mid-season they were still only just scraping 4th back then.

He's an outstanding coach but it's easy to forget the patience he has enjoyed at Liverpool to reach this point. He had similar problems defensively to what we have now. A leaky defence, amateur mistakes, goalkeeping errors. He didn't coach that out of the side he went and spent the best part of £150m to fix that issue.

There are areas defensively we can do better on and areas that Lampard has to coach this team to improve, but the only way basic errors and mistakes are going to be removed is either being confident enough that the players making them are young enough to cut them out in time and in that situation you almost have to ride them out. I think in the case of Tomori and James you can make a case for that but not the rest of the defence and midfield. Or you replace them. Even with the transfer ban lifted, January is not the window to make huge changes but this summer Lampard has to start putting his own stamp on this team and be ruthless.

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8 minutes ago, Mana said:

Klopp put Liverpool to the Europa League final, first season with a shite squad. Klopp’s first season was already damaged because of Rodgers. Klopp had a way better CV than Lampard and Sarri put together at the time. I’ll definitely be more patient with him.

Mate, I agree with 100% of what you are saying...but I would give Lampard at least one proper transfer window to see what happens. He already dropped Mount and thats a good thing, and he also want to bring Cavani and he said after the defeat to Newcastle that the team need to be more clinical at the front. I will agree with him. Costa was easily our best player when he was around (yes, he was more important than Hazard), that why I always get angry when people lick Conte's balls after what he did to Costa. How many games like the games against Arsenal and Newcastle that we won because Costa found a way to score goals against tight defenses?

Abraham needs competition. When Bats is the option when you need to score goals, then there is a big problem. William never scored many goals, thats why under Conte and Sarri Pedro was starting games ahead of him.

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Just now, Henrique said:

Mate, I agree with 100% of what you are saying...but I would give Lampard at least one proper transfer window to see what happens. He already dropped Mount and thats a good thing, and he also want to bring Cavani and he said after the defeat to Newcastle that the team need to be more clinical at the front. I will agree with him. Costa was easily our best player when he was around (yes, he was more important than Hazard), that why I always get angry when people lick Conte's balls after what he did to Costa. How many games like the games against Arsenal and Newcastle that we won because Costa found a way to score goals against tight defenses?

Abraham needs competition. When Bats is the option when you need to score goals, then there is a big problem. William never scored many goals, thats why under Conte and Sarri Pedro was starting games ahead of him.

Costa has been hopeless since returning to Atletico. Only 14 goals scored in 59 games and he has had injury problems. We sold him at the right time. The main problem, like always, is that we didn't find someone who is actually good to replace him. 

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Just now, Jason said:

Costa has been hopeless since returning to Atletico. Only 14 goals scored in 59 games and he has had injury problems. We sold him at the right time. The main problem, like always, is that we didn't find someone who is actually good to replace him. 

This argument doesn't make sense. Hazard was on fire when he left. He probably will be a flop for Madrid, it doesn't mean he was sold at the right time. Costa was great when he was playing for us, if he hopeless since he returned to Atletico doesn't me he would be hopeless if he had stayed.

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2 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Spot on. Klopp would never have lasted at Chelsea with his initial time in the first couple of seasons at Liverpool. Even up to 18 months ago, despite Salah having a Ronaldo/Messi esque season and spending £80m on Van Dijk mid-season they were still only just scraping 4th back then.

He's an outstanding coach but it's easy to forget the patience he has enjoyed at Liverpool to reach this point. He had similar problems defensively to what we have now. A leaky defence, amateur mistakes, goalkeeping errors. He didn't coach that out of the side he went and spent the best part of £150m to fix that issue.

There are areas defensively we can do better on and areas that Lampard has to coach this team to improve, but the only way basic errors and mistakes are going to be removed is either being confident enough that the players making them are young enough to cut them out in time and in that situation you almost have to ride them out. I think in the case of Tomori and James you can make a case for that but not the rest of the defence and midfield. Or you replace them. Even with the transfer ban lifted, January is not the window to make huge changes but this summer Lampard has to start putting his own stamp on this team and be ruthless.

I've tried to deny this to myself for some time but we have a ridiculously Impatient fanbase, I'd go as far as saying as bad as Real Madrid's.

I very much don't mind the critisism that's fair game, I've been very vocal myself about how annoyed I was the Jorgi/Kova/Mount midfield was broken up so prematurely but the comments that there's been absolutely no signs of a good end product or he hasn't improved a single player is laughable. For example we've won three big away games this season (could say four if you include this very good Wolves side) after not winning a single one for over two years, and all of them were won in big part to tactical decisions by Lampard. 

There very much has to be evolvement in Lampard's management season by season and if there's not I'll be the first to concede it's not working, but considering the transfer embargo, losing Hazard and trying to rebuild an entire new core of players and despite that we're in 4th, 7 points of last season's total at this stage and 4 in the same fixtures we've played is decent all in all.

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1 minute ago, Henrique said:

This argument doesn't make sense. Hazard was on fire when he left. He probably will be a flop for Madrid, it doesn't mean he was sold at the right time. Costa was great when he was playing for us, if he hopeless since he returned to Atletico doesn't me he would be hopeless if he had stayed.

lol That's like saying Fabregas, Nasri, Van Persie etc would have been successful had they stayed at Arsenal instead of going elsewhere. 

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2 minutes ago, Jason said:

lol That's like saying Fabregas, Nasri, Van Persie etc would have been successful had they stayed at Arsenal instead of going elsewhere. 

No, thats completely different, its actually the opposite.

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11 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Sarri sent us to the CL with an even worse squad but you never had a nice word to say about him.

Well I did say he should have another season with us after winning the EL final...he ticked all the boxes and surprised me in the end with all the drama.

3 minutes ago, Henrique said:

Mate, I agree with 100% of what you are saying...but I would give Lampard at least one proper transfer window to see what happens. He already dropped Mount and thats a good thing, and he also want to bring Cavani and he said after the defeat to Newcastle that the team need to be more clinical at the front. I will agree with him. Costa was easily our best player when he was around (yes, he was more important than Hazard), that why I always get angry when people lick Conte's balls after what he did to Costa. How many games like the games against Arsenal and Newcastle that we won because Costa found a way to score goals against tight defenses?

Abraham needs competition. When Bats is the option when you need to score goals, then there is a big problem. William never scored many goals, thats why under Conte and Sarri Pedro was starting games ahead of him.

I want to give Lampard another window, and if he gets CL for us, you wouldn’t see me say a bad word about Lampard until maybe 3 months in the next season when it goes wrong (like I did this season).

But if he doesn’t...do you really want to waste another year praying he will sort this out? People will go and say KLOPP! But if Klopp is Lampard right now, at least you can point to his CV and say, “He has won trophies with BVB against Bayern Munich. Give him time.”

Lampard is unknown to me as a coach, you might as well get a random attacking coach from the Championship or League One. The reason why Lampard has this job is because more of a fact that he’s a club legend. Not because he’s a fantastic coach. I want it the other way round.

 

And in hindsight I agree, Conte was awful kicking out Costa. We have failed to get a replacement for him since. Although, to be fair Costa is awful (or injured/banned) now in La Liga so...

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