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Jason

Super Frank Thread

Started by Jason,

2,602 posts in this topic

OGS has had transfer windows to put things right and mold his team, Frank hasn't.

I'm critical of Frank in certain things he does, like constantly play players under-performing like Mount to name one. If the board want FL to remain then they must simply back him and the targets he wants. No cut corners, no shit middle of the road signings for the sake of it and if we make top 4 to spend and spend big, we will not bridge the gap to City and Liverpool if we do not spend big and it has to be spending massive amounts. If we don't this continual fight for top 4 will keep happening and the roller coaster of results will continue.

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4 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

we will not bridge the gap to City and Liverpool if we do not spend big and it has to be spending massive amounts.

Those days of the blank chequebook are over it's all down to spending whatever money is available wisely. Liverpool and City won't be caught for the next 5-10 years they are going to dominate English football it's a massive catch up process for everyone else. Just take the weekend results we lose, Leicester lose, Arsenal draw, Spurs draw and Liverpool piss all over United there's no one within a mile of the top two and I can't see that changing.

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58 minutes ago, Iggy Doonican said:

Those days of the blank chequebook are over it's all down to spending whatever money is available wisely. Liverpool and City won't be caught for the next 5-10 years they are going to dominate English football it's a massive catch up process for everyone else. Just take the weekend results we lose, Leicester lose, Arsenal draw, Spurs draw and Liverpool piss all over United there's no one within a mile of the top two and I can't see that changing.

All it takes is ambition and know how and we there within 2 seasons, continue the way we have been for the last 3-5 years and as you said it will be a constant battle.

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1 hour ago, Iggy Doonican said:

Those days of the blank chequebook are over it's all down to spending whatever money is available wisely. Liverpool and City won't be caught for the next 5-10 years they are going to dominate English football it's a massive catch up process for everyone else. Just take the weekend results we lose, Leicester lose, Arsenal draw, Spurs draw and Liverpool piss all over United there's no one within a mile of the top two and I can't see that changing.

Doesn't take as much as you think. Two years ago no one was given a prayer of catching City and it happened. Furthermore Liverpool's core squad are in their late 20s, unless they manage to find replacements of quality and chemistry they will have a transition period within 3/4 years (that's why I was surprised Klopp extended).

The academy players are our golden ticket back to the top, it's allowed us to fill holes and focus on more specific players in the market.

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1 hour ago, Iggy Doonican said:

Those days of the blank chequebook are over it's all down to spending whatever money is available wisely. Liverpool and City won't be caught for the next 5-10 years they are going to dominate English football it's a massive catch up process for everyone else. Just take the weekend results we lose, Leicester lose, Arsenal draw, Spurs draw and Liverpool piss all over United there's no one within a mile of the top two and I can't see that changing.

I agree with most all, but I do not think it will take 10 years.

Fast forward to 2025-26 season (so 5 years and a few months from now)

the following are all too old or almost there at that point to be top class players at the level they are now

 

Shitty

Laporte 31 (turns 32 right at the very end)

Stones 31 (turns 32 right at the very end)

Mendy 31 (turns 32 in the summer after)

Walker 35 (turns 36 right at the very end)

João Cancelo 31 (turns 32 right at the very end)

Fernandinho 40 (turns 41 right at the end)

Ilkay Gündogan 35 in October 2025

Kevin De Bruyne 34 (35 in the summer after)

Raheem Sterling 31 in Dec 2025

Bernardo Silva  31 (32 the summer after)

Riyad Mahrez  35 in February 2026

Sergio Agüero  37 (38 beginning of June 2026)

 

 

Victimpool

Virgil van Dijk 34 (35 in summer 2026)   
Joel Matip    34 (35 in summer 2026)
Dejan Lovren    36 (37 in summer 2026)   
Andrew Robertson   31 (32 in March 2026)  
Nathaniel Clyne    34 (35 mid season)    
Fabinho    31 (32 in October 2025)   
Georginio Wijnaldum    34 (35 in November 2025)   
Naby Keïta    30 (31 in January 2026)   
Jordan Henderson    35 (36 right after the season ends)
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain   32 (33 the summer of 2026)
James Milner    39 (40 in mid season)    
Adam Lallana   37 (38 in May 2026)    
Sadio Mané    33 (34 in April 2026)
Takumi Minamino    30 (31 in mid season)   
Mohamed Salah    33 (34 in June right after the season ends)
Xherdan Shaqiri    34 in October 2025
Roberto Firmino    34 in October 2025    
Divock Origi   30 (31 in April 2026)

 

that is basically 80+% of the core of both teams that needs to be replaced or is almost at the point of being too old to be top class

some (9, 10 is you count Firmino as an SS) of those players are now the best or top 2 or 3 (or at least top 5-6) in the world too

Laporte 

Kevin De Bruyne 

Raheem Sterling 

Bernardo Silva  

Virgil van Dijk 
Andrew Robertson    
Fabinho   
Sadio Mané     
Mohamed Salah

 

at transfer rate prices between now and summer 2025, those 30 players listed will cost around 1.8 to 2 billion quid (or more) to replace to that level (or both teams will have to get incredible lucky and buy many lesser cost players who turn world class, which is deffo possible but not guaranteed at all)

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Vesper said:

I agree with most all, but I do not think it will take 10 years.

Fast forward to 2025-26 season (so 5 years and a few months from now)

the following are all too old or almost there at that point to be top class players at the level they are now

 

Shitty

Laporte 31 (turns 32 right at the very end)

Stones 31 (turns 32 right at the very end)

Mendy 31 (turns 32 in the summer after)

Walker 35 (turns 36 right at the very end)

João Cancelo 31 (turns 32 right at the very end)

Fernandinho 40 (turns 41 right at the end)

Ilkay Gündogan 35 in October 2025

Kevin De Bruyne 34 (35 in the summer after)

Raheem Sterling 31 in Dec 2025

Bernardo Silva  31 (32 the summer after)

Riyad Mahrez  35 in February 2026

Sergio Agüero  37 (38 beginning of June 2026)

 

 

Victimpool

Virgil van Dijk 34 (35 in summer 2026)   
Joel Matip    34 (35 in summer 2026)
Dejan Lovren    36 (37 in summer 2026)   
Andrew Robertson   31 (32 in March 2026)  
Nathaniel Clyne    34 (35 midvseason)    
Fabinho    31 (32 in October 2025)   
Georginio Wijnaldum    34 (35 in November 2025)   
Naby Keïta    30 (31 in January 2026)   
Jordan Henderson    35 (36 right after the season ends)
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain   32 (33 the summer of 20269
James Milner    39 (40 in mid season)    
Adam Lallana   37 (38 in May 2026)    
Sadio Mané    33 (34 in April 2026)
Takumi Minamino    30 (31 in mid season)   
Mohamed Salah    33 (34 in June right after the season ends)
Xherdan Shaqiri    34 in October 2025
Roberto Firmino    34 in October 2025    
Divock Origi   30 (31 in April 2026)

 

that is basically 80+% of the core of both teams that needs to be replaced or is almost at the point of being too old to be top class

some (9, 10 is you count Firmino as an SS) of those players are now the best or top 2 or 3 (or at least top 5-6) in the world too

Laporte 

Kevin De Bruyne 

Raheem Sterling 

Bernardo Silva  

Virgil van Dijk 
Andrew Robertson    
Fabinho   
Sadio Mané     
Mohamed Salah

 

at transfer rate prices between now and summer 2025, those 30 players listed will cost around 1.8 to 2 billion quid (or more) to replace to that level (or both teams will have to get incredible lucky and buy many lesser cost players who turn world class, which is deffo possible but not guaranteed at all)

 

 

 

Exactly, they are in problem in just three years most likely. Plus Pep and Klopp won't be there anymore. 

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28 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Doesn't take as much as you think. Two years ago no one was given a prayer of catching City and it happened. Furthermore Liverpool's core squad are in their late 20s, unless they manage to find replacements of quality and chemistry they will have a transition period within 3/4 years (that's why I was surprised Klopp extended).

The academy players are our golden ticket back to the top, it's allowed us to fill holes and focus on more specific players in the market.

Well I can't see anyone challenging the top two certainly for the next couple of seasons. Klopp is going nowhere Pep questionable how long he'll stay but if Lampard leaves or gets sacked who's to say that the next manager will play the youngsters. Golden ticket no bronze maybe Tammy and Mount are out of form, CHO the jury is out, Tomori dropped recently only Reece James looks like he's going to be a permanent fixture whoever is in charge. Not sure about the last sentence to be honest Tomo you'll have to expand on that.

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25 minutes ago, Iggy Doonican said:

Well I can't see anyone challenging the top two certainly for the next couple of seasons. Klopp is going nowhere Pep questionable how long he'll stay but if Lampard leaves or gets sacked who's to say that the next manager will play the youngsters. Golden ticket no bronze maybe Tammy and Mount are out of form, CHO the jury is out, Tomori dropped recently only Reece James looks like he's going to be a permanent fixture whoever is in charge. Not sure about the last sentence to be honest Tomo you'll have to expand on that.

They were statistically the most dominant youth team since the Busby Babes, teams that featured Phil Foden, Jadon Sancho and Trent among others couldn't get near us. Of course i know it's a big step up to the first team and will take time as we're finding out but in an era we can't/won't spend the sums the elite sides (and City) are spending developing the boys to their potential is a must, it means we can focus our budget on top signings as filler won't be required any longer.

If we can get even four to the level of their potential or close (one down three to go as James is a dead cert for me) and a further four as solid squad players that's a third of our squad down, and hundreds of millions saved which will allow scope for bigger signings in the market.

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2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

If we can get even four to the level of their potential or close (one down three to go as James is a dead cert for me) and a further four as solid squad players that's a third of our squad down, and hundreds of millions saved which will allow scope for bigger signings in the market

To many ifs and buts to be honest. The stand out player is Reece the rest and I am factoring in their age are not guarantees I hope they are.

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Just now, Iggy Doonican said:

To many ifs and buts to be honest. The stand out player is Reece the rest and I am factoring in their age are not guarantees I hope they are.

Maybe, but given the amount we've invested in the academy plus their results at that age it would be mental not to give it a go. Low risk, huge reward. City and Liverpool being where they gives all the more reason to as we don't have the option of a quick fix (like we did in 2014/15 when we replaced KDB/Salah with more ready now players) as we're building to pounce on any drop off.

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7 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Maybe, but given the amount we've invested in the academy plus their results at that age it would be mental not to give it a go. Low risk, huge reward. City and Liverpool being where they gives all the more reason to as we don't have the option of a quick fix (like we did in 2014/15 when we replaced KDB/Salah with more ready now players) as we're building to pounce on any drop off.

Good post and makes perfect sense but it's Chelsea and we are so unpredictable that anything could happen.

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1 hour ago, Iggy Doonican said:

To many ifs and buts to be honest. The stand out player is Reece the rest and I am factoring in their age are not guarantees I hope they are.

None will be a guarantee at that age, not even Reece.

We only have to look at the manager, someone who looked nowhere near the player he would become until he was 24/25.

I think at the very least, and what @Tomo is saying is all of the younger players have shown in stages this season (or last season for RLC and CHO) that they are capable of performing at this level and being big important factors in Chelsea winning games, it's just not on a consistent enough basis at present (and that would include Pulisic into that bracket also). The hope is that consistency will come with experience but if it doesn't I think what this season has at least shown is the club can be confident now to lean far more on the academy in the future compared to previously. If some of these players never reach their full potential all of them have proven at the very minimum they can be solid Premier League players and offer depth as squad players.

In turn this will stop us forking out small fortunes on players such as Drinkwater and Zappacosta. That summer we really should have kicked on but chose quantity over quality and look how far back we are now. Instead of spending £75m on Drinkwater and Bakayoko we would have been better served giving RLC more chances and spending top dollar on a higher quality midfielder. Instead we sold a first choice midfielder and let RLC out on loan who performed well enough at Palace to go to the World Cup and we were left with two midfielders who turned out to be a living nightmare.

This time 6 months ago most of us were looking at our squad and it seemed easier to count how many players were good enough to keep rather than how many were not, but with the influx from the academy and some of the positive contributions they've made this season I think if we can add 2 or 3 top quality players over this window and the summer and another couple the following summer we'll hopefully be in an extremely strong position to take advantage of City and Liverpool then needing to start making changes to sides who's mostly best players will be on the wrong side of 30 by then. City and Liverpool are well ahead of the pack at present and therefore it makes even more sense over the next couple of seasons to build slowly and quietly and see just how far some of these players can reach.

 

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6 hours ago, Special Juan said:

OGS has had transfer windows to put things right and mold his team, Frank hasn't.

Sorry, this is a lie. He has THIS window. I'm not stupid, he needs more than one window to sort the shite out. I get that. But to bring in nobody? Not even a loan? You can't even do a Pulisic and secure a player for next season? We are drowning and in the next 4 games we could be completely drowned.

====

Incoming rant.

I see Chelsea being a slightly better run version of United. Lampard is no different than Ole, apart from Lampard having better style of play than Ole. Chelsea isn't a work experience football club. Our football club is now run by novices. From management to the players. This is a horribly executed plan to bring up the youth, and a terrible way to run the football club.

You either have a rookie coach with class, experienced players (and 2-3 youths) or a class coach with most of the youth. You can't have it both ways and expect to gain anything out of it.

How are they going to learn? Lampard's coaching is questionable. FECK ZONAL MARKING. Stop it, it gives a good opposition a major advantage. 

Fans here laugh at Ole, but Lampard ain't all that better. Keane was right in Sky Sports yesterday. Ole gets the stick, but Lampard's fine. EIGHT defeats. Losing at home to West Ham and Bournemouth.

It's a goddamn miracle how we are still 4th!

Lampard has failed with Derby County and we have awarded his failure by managing one of the biggest clubs in world football. Trust me, if he wasn't a club "legend", he would still be in Derby County. Fact. 

Because at the end of the day, Lampard will eventually get sacked. I've seen enough, he's out of his depth unfortunately. Good coaches make shite players play better. Look at fecking Chris Wilder FFS. Way better than Lampard so far with the shite players he has.

Apart from Abraham (maybe?) all our players play exactly the same I expected them to be. Don't say Jorginho, because last season for some reason this player was underperforming under Sarri, when prior to that he was playing well. He is now back to that level. He's not better than he used to be, but at least we got the Jorginho we paid for. Kante is playing slightly worse this season!

When Lampard gets sacked, he'll have in his CV that he managed Chelsea FC. He had great work experience managing a huge club. And mid-table PL clubs like Brighton and Palace will hire Lampard because of it.

I want to give Lampard time, but when there's better coaches like Poch* available...like why hang around with this coach? What has Lampard done to make me put trust that he can put Chelsea in to challenging titles again? Apart from being a legend as a player. Di Matteo has done more as a coach so far than Lampard and we sacked him.

 

*I can see some of you going to post "POCH HAS WON NOTHING!" That's because he was managing a loser club like Spuds. Poch took them as far as he possibly could with Spuds. Poch has proven that he is a good attacking coach, good philosophy. He just needs a bigger club that would push him to get trophies. Look at Sarri for example.

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If Lampard thinks our defeat was all about finishing and that Kante played excellently then we really have to worry.

Kante was far from excellent and our defeat had fuck all to do with finishing. Maybe he is bullshiting.

Corners and set-pieces are a huge part of the game but sadly we really suck ass at both ends.

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1 minute ago, Mana said:

Sorry, this is a lie. He has THIS window. I'm not stupid, he needs more than one window to sort the shite out. I get that. But to bring in nobody? Not even a loan? You can't even do a Pulisic and secure a player for next season? We are drowning and in the next 4 games we could be completely drowned.

 

This window isn't over, and even me as one of the most skeptical Chelsea fans when it comes to transfers is optimistic, we will get something done I am sure of it.

On the flip side I am not sure we leave stuff so late all the time.

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I dont think City and Liverpool are that far away. It is maybe difficult to see it now but remember the season we recalled Courtois, bought Costa and Cesc for our starting 11 and went to win the league? After finishing 3rd the previous season where Hazard, Matic and Azpi were probably our best quality of players in that period compared with the others?

Weve still got good players but with 3 or 4 players of the right quality, in key positions and an improvement in our shape/organisation/team structure (which has been an issue this season), we can compete.

Hopefully Tammy, Mason, Andreas, Ruben, Tomori, Reece will continue to play (if they deserve to thought) and develop, becoming better players too in the next season or two but I do think with 3 or 4 very good additions in weakspots in our team, we can be right up there. Maybe not next season but the one after? The young guys do need to come of age and there is huge potential with some of them but it will be a gradual process undoubtedly. I think a few players between 23-26 who are already pretty established at a good level and experienced along with one or two smart short term deals (ie Cavani) can definitely help us.

As stated above by Vesper in the next 4 or 5 years City and Liverpools main bulk of their squad will be older. Theyll buy to replace but even then City lost Kompany and you can see the impact thats had, they will lose Silva at the end this season and Aguero probably the season after. They werent/arent just top players, they are huge figureheads in the dressing room which you need to be successful too. Leroy Sane is definitely not a cert to stay either. De Bruyne, Sterling and B. Silva are still incredible players but at the same time I dont think any team can just replace an Aguero or a David Silva or a Kompany. These guys arent/werent just top players, they are almost as vital to City as Drogba, Cole  Lampard, Cech and Terry were to us as figures. 

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11 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

This window isn't over, and even me as one of the most skeptical Chelsea fans when it comes to transfers is optimistic, we will get something done I am sure of it.

On the flip side I am not sure we leave stuff so late all the time.

Fair enough I guess.

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1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Absolute bolax.

Lol. He took Derby from 6th to 6th. He lost in the championship play-off final. That to me (especially the last part), is failure.

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Just now, Mana said:

Lol. He took Derby from 6th to 6th. 

Nonsense, he maintained a league position while completely overhauling their style of play and then going one better in the play off.

Critisize some of his tactics or recent performances all you like, heck even say you'd rather someone else, but to say he failed at Derby and is showing absolutely zero signs of becoming a top coach is the biggest load of horseshit I've ever read.

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