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Jason

Super Frank Thread

Started by Jason,

4,745 posts in this topic
1 minute ago, Jason said:

:o 

What happen to your positivity!?

It has been replaced by the realism that we have a bunch of pussies in the squad with no leadership and FL just does not know what he is doing. 

That single performance was an absolute sucker punch

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8 minutes ago, Jason said:

But Palace have never really been a problem for us over the years, even with the odd hiccup against them like in 2016/17. And given how they set up few weeks ago, Palace weren't really the greatest of tests for Silva and Zouma.

I can't remember where I saw this but Palace are great against top 6 teams. They have a better record than anyone bar Liverpool and City over the last few seasons. 

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1 minute ago, Puliiszola said:

It has been replaced by the realism that we have a bunch of pussies in the squad with no leadership and FL just does not know what he is doing. 

That single performance was an absolute sucker punch

Quite the sudden turnaround given we were arguing from opposite ends only like 2-3 weeks ago, IIRC. 

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4 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

It was a good defensive performance, because CP were way too passive. They did not attack us, they were happy to simply counter, which we snuffed out.

When teams really get at us, attack us, we are so fucking shit. Conceded 3 against wba, conceded 3 against soton. Combined those 2 won't be scoring 3 or more goals in a game in more than 5 matches all season in PL. Jorginho is shit when attacked and put under pressure, Kanye just runs like a headless chicken. Kai is a luxury player and needs a strong CM pairing and defence to thrive. Defence is a shsmble. Alright, we know defensively we suck, what have we done in attack? When teams press us, we can't even beat a league 2 teams' press. It's utter tosh.

I understand that we have other areas of our game to fix defensively but I think one of the biggest steps is a consistent back four. For me that's Chilwell Zouma Silva James and Mendy. We were missing 3/5 from this so it's not surprising that we weren't as good defensively but Lampard needs to curate a system that works when some of these aren't playing. 

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2 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

I can't remember where I saw this but Palace are great against top 6 teams. Yhey have a better record than anyone bat Liverpool and City over the last few seasons. 

I don't know what's their exact record against the others but we have won 11 of our last 15 matches against Palace, including the last 6. 

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Just now, Jason said:

Quite the sudden turnaround given we were arguing from opposite ends only like 2-3 weeks ago, IIRC. 

There are moments which change you and your perspective. Our play at 2-0 up and then our reaction to going 2-1 into HT was it for me. And I don't see things changing, it seems to be a confidence issue among the squad where we just crumble at the slightest amount of pressure. And FL just seems to be unable to change it.

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Just now, Jason said:

I don't know what's their exact record against the others but we have won 11 of our last 15 matches against Palace, including the last 6. 

Not sure we've ever beaten them recently with a 4 goal margin though. 

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Just now, The Skipper said:

Not sure we've ever beaten them recently with a 4 goal margin though. 

To be fair, not many teams beat Palace 4-0 or by a heavy scoreline when their manager is as pragmatic/defensive as Roy Hodgson. 

In any case, our record is still better than some of the shockers the other Big 6 have had against Palace in recent seasons. 

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Just now, The Skipper said:

I understand that we have other areas of our game to fix defensively but I think one of the biggest steps is a consistent back four. For me that's Chilwell Zouma Silva James and Mendy. We were missing 3/5 from this so it's not surprising that we weren't as good defensively but Lampard needs to curate a system that works when some of these aren't playing. 

In an ideal world, we will have that back 5 playing week in and week out. But don't think that's going to happen for even 20-25% of the games, be it due to injuries, exhaustion, suspensions, or something else. After 50+ game, a manager atleast needs to have a pulse of his team, needs to set up accordingly and play to their strengths. 

What were we doing from 2-0 to 2-2 and then the from 3-2 to last minute was beyond me. We made soton look like Barca, that was not just on the defence, it was on the mid, the tactics and the overall lack of balls from everyone on the pitch right down to FL. Personnel, is one part, even Silva makes mistakes, but the way we dealt with the pressure, that is worrying, and I don't see how that changes. 

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5 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Dropping silly points v. WBA and Southampton - Frank can't hide behind individual mistakes anymore. We're playing a system where individual mistakes happen time and time again - you then have to take a step back and look as to how we're harbouring a system that forces so many individual mistakes to begin with. 

Our set piece defending still seems rubbish for example. 

Yep. It definitely wasn't a case of Zouma just booting it clear or down to setpiece defending. That game should not have been in the balance with minutes to go.

There is an issue with the coaching/pressing work off the ball. The team has sat back and invited pressure in phases of games after taking leads - Brighton, Spurs, now Soton

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31 minutes ago, Azul said:

What annoys me the most is that the league is there for the taking with Liverpools injury problems. 

I had high hopes for the season, but with Lampard as our manager we will definitely not challenge for the title. I truly believe that we might even struggle to get top four, which is unacceptable to be honest. 

What should be done? Do you want Lampard to be sacked if he drops more than 12 points in the next 8 games? Or do you accept the fact that we will struggle this season with him as a manager and we might not even get CL football next season?

I'm very conflicted about this, but out of respect of what he has done for CFC, I say to give him to season to prove himself. If however at some point it looks hard for us to make top four, then he must be sacked though. The talent this team has deserves CL football next season.

I feel we will give him the season. But just this season. 

Irrespective of where we finish the season, if we don't get 80 points, he should get the sack. No matter if he gets top 4 with 72-75 points. 

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33 minutes ago, Azul said:

What annoys me the most is that the league is there for the taking with Liverpools injury problems. 

I had high hopes for the season, but with Lampard as our manager we will definitely not challenge for the title. I truly believe that we might even struggle to get top four, which is unacceptable to be honest. 

What should be done? Do you want Lampard to be sacked if he drops more than 12 points in the next 8 games? Or do you accept the fact that we will struggle this season with him as a manager and we might not even get CL football next season?

I'm very conflicted about this, but out of respect of what he has done for CFC, I say to give him to season to prove himself. If however at some point it looks hard for us to make top four, then he must be sacked though. The talent this team has deserves CL football next season.

If we continue to take one step forward and two steps backward in the next 1-2 months, think Roman and the board will start asking questions.

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3 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

I feel we will give him the season. But just this season. 

Irrespective of where we finish the season, if we don't get 80 points, he should get the sack. No matter if he gets top 4 with 72-75 points. 

I fully agree with you to an extent. If there ever is a point where we look like we're not going to get top four then we have to sack Lampard. Top four is crucial this season.

 

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

If we continue to take one step forward and two steps backward in the next 1-2 months, think Roman and the board will start asking questions.

Rightfully so, getting CL football next season is vital for the development of these new players. If Lampard looks like he's not even going to make that then he needs to be sacked regardless of his legendary status.

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18 minutes ago, Azul said:

I fully agree with you to an extent. If there ever is a point where we look like we're not going to get top four then we have to sack Lampard. Top four is crucial this season.

 

Rightfully so, getting CL football next season is vital for the development of these new players. If Lampard looks like he's not even going to make that then he needs to be sacked regardless of his legendary status.

Point with top 4 being a barometer of success is that, we basically accept mediocrity. Even right now, with a bad start to the season, we are still 6th. Because the league as a whole is shit. No consistency whatsoever. 

That's the only reason, I would rather have a definitive aim in mind. 80 points for me. If we can't get 80 points, it's a failed season, irrespective of where we end up, because the position will be determined how the rest of the teams play. We need to look at ourselves. For me, it's 80 points or sack.

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25 minutes ago, Azul said:

I fully agree with you to an extent. If there ever is a point where we look like we're not going to get top four then we have to sack Lampard. Top four is crucial this season.

 

Rightfully so, getting CL football next season is vital for the development of these new players. If Lampard looks like he's not even going to make that then he needs to be sacked regardless of his legendary status.

He is not a legendary coach. His legendary status from his playing days should not have anything to do with him as a manager. It is a conflicting feeling, not one single about that, but this season he should be treated as any other manager we have had under Roman.

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2 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Point with top 4 being a barometer of success is that, we basically accept mediocrity. Even right now, with a bad start to the season, we are still 6th. Because the league as a whole is shit. No consistency whatsoever. 

That's the only reason, I would rather have a definitive aim in mind. 80 points for me. If we can't get 80 points, it's a failed season, irrespective of where we end up, because the position will be determined how the rest of the teams play. We need to look at ourselves. For me, it's 80 points or sack.

I agree, regardless of him getting top four with me it's more about seeing an improvement tactical and organizational wise. If I don't see that then I'm fine with him getting top four this season and then get replaced by someone like Nagelsmann. 

However if he even struggles and it gets to the point to where it looks like we can't even get top four then he has to be sacked on the spot to salvage our season. It's just sad to see no improvement though, we really could've won the title this year with another manager. Van Dijk is out, City is not a force anymore because teams know how to play against Guardiola now. This should've been our moment to step in and challenge for the title, but the way things are looking we'll battle for top 4, and that's on Lampard.

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"They have conceded just 379 shots - only Manchester City have faced fewer - and their expected goals against is just 44.7, over 18 goals fewer than they have actually conceded. That is by far the largest difference between expected goals conceded and actual goals conceded in the Premier League".

 

This shows to me that our defensive structure is not that bad. We just have the worst GK and we make some stupid mistakes like Havertz and Zouma did, but all the teams do those stupid mistakes. Liverpool do them, Man City do them and United also fail to stop doing stupid mistakes.

With Mendy and Silva, we will improve.

 

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, The Skipper said:

Disagree. I think we made the right decision because the market for defenders this summer wasn't great at all. We still spent £50m there with Chilwell. We need to improve at CB but there honestly weren't that many clear improvement s available. We have a ton of interesting young CBs coming through as well - no need to spend there for the sake of spending. It needs to be the right player. Only a top top CB improved us now. 

If that's the case, then at least improve our DMF position. Kante is dodgy and not reliable (gets injured now and again) and Jorginho is shite. Thomas Partey would have improved us in that area, protecting the back 4.

However, it all depends on Lampard and how he fits in to that system. Because Kante while playing for France is much better than he is playing for us in recent games.

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4 hours ago, Jason said:

But Palace have never really been a problem for us over the years, even with the odd hiccup against them like in 2016/17. And given how they set up few weeks ago, Palace weren't really the greatest of tests for Silva and Zouma.

As it stands, yes but they still need to be tested as a pair against better opponents than Crystal Palace.

 

4 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

It was a good defensive performance, because CP were way too passive. They did not attack us, they were happy to simply counter, which we snuffed out.

Or maybe, just maybe, Palace "didn't attack" because we didn't let them?

I mean think about this Palace recently went to Old Trafford scored 3 and could have scored 8, they saw us ship three to West Brom the previous week, their strength on the counter is also a weakness for us, you really think they would look at those things combined and think "nah ain't going to bother attacking today what's the point"?

Not to mention they've won more big games away to the big six in recent years than the big six sides themselves, we limited a very dangerous and pacey counter attacking side to absolute scraps.

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