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Jason

Super Frank Thread

Started by Jason,

4,744 posts in this topic
And we went on to concede only 39 league goals that season under Sarri, which is 15 less than last season despite the heaviest loss being 4-0. 
Yes, but Sarri had the luck to have had Hazard in his team. Without Hazard, we may have still conceded 15 goals less than under Lampard, but we would have had also 30 goals less. Those tactics only work when there is someone that can score goals at least once per game. Simeone tactics only work because they always have one goalscorer on the teamsheet. But nowadays, even Simeone struggles and loses more matches because last season, Morata missed many chances and they either lost in the end or dropped two points.
Even mastermind Conte struggles these days with defensive tactics. I guess he struggles because he has quite an offensive team.



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2 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Yes, but Sarri had the luck to have had Hazard in his team. Without Hazard, we may have still conceded 15 goals less than under Lampard, but we would have had also 30 goals less. Those tactics only work when there is someone that can score goals at least once per game. Simeone tactics only work because they always have one goalscorer on the teamsheet. But nowadays, even Simeone struggles and loses more matches because last season, Morata missed many chances and they either lost in the end or dropped two points.
Even mastermind Conte struggles these days with defensive tactics. I guess he struggles because he has quite an offensive team.



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We had a decently offensive team under Conte's first season and we did bloody well.

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This is by another Chels supporter:
 

I just feel it's a little like, you have your good mate over on a regular basis, to do some jobs around your gaff. The odd time, you come back home, and he has done a pretty good job, your faith in him is unquestionable. But more often than not, you get home, and he has f**ked up yet again. You both blame the tools, because he is your mate and you have seen that he can do a half decent job, maybe 25% of the time. There is that nagging feeling at the back of your head, that he is actually in charge of the tools, because he's your mate, you try to keep it at the back of your head. And even though it's the same mistake each time, sometimes when he has changed the tools, you want/hope that the next time, it will all be good, because he is your mate. 

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We had a decently offensive team under Conte's first season and we did bloody well.
Steve Holland said in an interview that one reason for Chelsea's success under Conte in the first season was that no other team could deal with a 3-4-3 because it is not used in England and other coaches had no clue how to beat us. After one season, when teams analyzed it to pieces, they found a way to beat us and beat us more often.

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Next 6 games before the November international break:
Sevilla (h)
Man United (a)
Krasnodar (a)
Burnley (a)
Rennes (h)
Sheffield United (h)
How many wins from those games...?
Depends how many games Mendy will play

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Just now, killer1257 said:

Steve Holland said in an interview that one reason for Chelsea's success under Conte in the first season was that no other team could deal with a 3-4-3 because it is not used in England and other coaches had no clue how to beat us. After one season, when teams analyzed it to pieces, they found a way to beat us and beat us more often.

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Yeah plus all kinds of shit going on behind the scenes that didnt help. But that season under Conte was sublime, so good that everyone copied us.

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13 minutes ago, Jason said:

Nobody associated with Chelsea wants to see Lampard fail at the club but at the moment and based on what we've seen so far, it feels like Lampard is just another of those typical English or British managers we've seen over the years - someone who is a good communicator and/or man manager but not very good when it comes to the tactical side of the game and/or coaching. 

I'd agree there's some concerns tactically but he's done quite well developing players on an individual basis.

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32 minutes ago, Jason said:

And we went on to concede only 39 league goals that season under Sarri, which is 15 less than last season despite the heaviest loss being 4-0. 

there are some people twisting themselves into pretzels to deny reality

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2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I'd agree there's some concerns tactically but he's done quite well developing players on an individual basis.

If the individual in your mind is Pulisic, don't...it doesn't really count when it's only one player. 

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3 minutes ago, Jason said:

If the individual in your mind is Pulisic, don't...it doesn't really count when it's only one player. 

Tomori looked like he was finding his level as a Championship player pre Frank. 

Tammy's all round game developed a lot last season.

Kova and Willian had the best season's of their careers.

Early signs are Chilwell is going up a level under his management although too early to make a definitive judgement.

Mount depends on what your preference is, he's turned him into a better all rounder but he has lost a lot of the creativity he had at Vitese/youth level.

And finally, as you say, Pulisic, his talent has always been obvious but at Dortmund and his first couple of months with us he was widely inconsistent and would often totally ghost games. Lampard has not only got a level of consistentcy out of him that we will thought would take atleast a season minimum, but has got him to a Hazard level which was beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

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1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Tomori looked like he was finding his level as a Championship player pre Frank. 

And yet, he can't get into the starting XI ahead of Christensen.

2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Tammy's all round game developed a lot last season.

But is he really developed enough to succeed at the highest level?

And also, great confidence shown by Lampard to go out and buy another striker...

4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Kova and Willian had the best season's of their careers.

That is highly debatable. Kovacic was in and out of the team and Willian was consistently inconsistent.

6 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Mount depends on what your preference is, he's turned him into a better all rounder but he has lost a lot of the creativity he had at Vitese/youth level.

Better all rounder but at what cost? What even is Mount's best position now? What is Mount really good at apart from his workrate?

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5 minutes ago, Jason said:

If the individual in your mind is Pulisic, don't...it doesn't really count when it's only one player. 

Reece James and Zouma have also improved during is reign. lampard basically made Mount, Tomori and Tammy even tho both are still average. I woudl say he has improved BArkley and Kovacic played the best season of his career last season.

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9 minutes ago, Jason said:

And yet, he can't get into the starting XI ahead of Christensen.

Still beats the Piazon esque career in the loan army he was destined for.

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

But is he really developed enough to succeed at the highest level?

And also, great confidence shown by Lampard to go out and buy another striker...

Not really as straight forward as that, United chased Sancho all summer but that doesn't mean they have no faith in Greenwood.

Tammy looks like he can at the very least be a good option for a squad at PL level, which again is more than was looking likely before, he was pretty pants at Swansea so much so he had to take another drop down a level.

12 minutes ago, Jason said:

That is highly debatable. Kovacic was in and out of the team and Willian was consistently inconsistent.

But got more top performances out of him than any of his predecessors.

And what season has Kova had better than last on the individual level? The only debatable one would be his last season at Inter.

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12 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Reece James and Zouma have also improved during is reign. lampard basically made Mount, Tomori and Tammy even tho both are still average. I woudl say he has improved BArkley and Kovacic played the best season of his career last season.

Zouma is dross

we keep rolling with him as a regular CB over the coming years we are not going to win shit

he is absolutely dreadful with the ball

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4 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Zouma needs to go to a caveman lump it forward route 1 midtable club that parks the bus most games

Am still fuming for that horrendous pass to Kepa that led to their second goal...ffs just get the ball out of play and it's a throw in...

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8 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Still beats the Piazon esque career in the loan army he was destined for.

So this is where we're at now? Measuring Tomori against Piazon with him as a barometer? :carlo:

9 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Not really as straight forward as that, United chased Sancho all summer but that doesn't mean they have no faith in Greenwood.

But Greenwood is not exactly a winger is he?

9 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Tammy looks like he can at the very least be a good option for a squad at PL level, which again is more than was looking likely before, he was pretty pants at Swansea so much so he had to take another drop down a level.

Abraham was only 20 and playing in his first season in the Premier League. Hardly a surprise he struggled, especially in a terrible team like Swansea were back then.

11 minutes ago, Tomo said:

But got more top performances out of him than any of his predecessors.

And what season has Kova had better than last on the individual level? The only debatable one would be his last season at Inter.

More top performances but what else? Has Kovacic gotten more creative? Has Kovacic provided more assists or scored more goals? 

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33 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I'd agree there's some concerns tactically but he's done quite well developing players on an individual basis.

I'd have to agree to a point.

I think that's all well and good but developing players on an individual basis has to show results in improving the team as a whole through a good structure or tactical set up, so these players can maximise their ability and affect matches.

There is clear signs we are very much a just give the ball to someone who is playing well (Pulisic last season) and let them do the rest still or give it to a fullback and let them pump it into the box. There isn't any coordination or patterns that are worked on like we would see with Conte or Sarri.

Under Conte the season we won the league, overall as a team, we did have individuals improve (Moses, Luiz, Cahill, Azpilicueta, Matic, Hazard, Pedro, Cesc, Kante over the course of that season probably played some of the finest football of their careers) but not only that, as a collective we improved tenfold because we managed to find a way to utilize all these players strengths together within a set way of playing. For instance, individuals like Alonso, like Moses who weren't particularly great players but what they brought to the team in that formation helped and it dovetailed with the likes of Eden and Pedro being able to play much more narrower and getting closer to Diego Costa/the box. As well as Luiz being in a more central birth in a back 3 where he probably engages players less as he would do playing on the left or right sided centre back position in a back 4, has a bit more protection to the sides and in front of him with Kante and Matic but also, at the same time allowing him to come out and be proactive, intercepting balls into strikers feet or stepping into MF with the ball, which are strengths of his. 

The tactical side has got to come good somehow. I mean you can be as good as you want at improving players on an individual basis but if you cant find a way to maximise the actual teams performance you wont last long/wont be as successful. 

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