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Jason

Super Frank Thread

Started by Jason,

421 posts in this topic
14 minutes ago, Supermonkey92 said:

 The other half can't seem to handle frank getting criticised. Even when managers should be.
 

I've said this before. This is one of the reasons why I disliked Lampard coming here. Because if we are in the same shit this October when I finally judge his tactics, I know I'm going to get it from the Lampard-lovies.

Just like Mourinho and his loveboys back in 2015 when we were in the shit.

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3 minutes ago, Mana said:

I've said this before. This is one of the reasons why I disliked Lampard coming here. Because if we are in the same shit this October when I finally judge his tactics, I know I'm going to get it from the Lampard-lovies.

Just like Mourinho and his loveboys back in 2015 when we were in the shit.

You also criticised heavily Conte and Sarri and wanted them out but they both overachieved with this team and had instant success. 

bigbluewillie and kellzfresh like this

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13 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

You also criticised heavily Conte and Sarri and wanted them out but they both overachieved with this team and had instant success. 

Never "heavily" criticised Conte. I even backed him over Costa. Didn't heavily criticise Sarri until the turn of the year.

 

EDIT: Okay, maybe I did with Conte for one or two games including the City match (and his comments after it). But that was more of frustration.

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36 minutes ago, Supermonkey92 said:

Would there in principle be a situation this season where frank deserves criticism?

Let's say we lose 5-0 tonight. All the same problems from Sunday happen and we are just as naive as when we went 2-0 down.

Would that be dismissed as part of the learning curve? Or can we say ' you know what, for the players confidence right now it's important not to get hammered.'

I'm not saying we will get smashed, but whilst one half of the forum (including me) are strongly pessimistic. The other half can't seem to handle frank getting criticised. Even when managers should be.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

I think this season should be as follows when assessing Frank's performance.

Top 4 or more = overachieving

Challenging for top 4 = par for the course

Finishing 6th with mid 60s points = below par but not a disaster given the circumstances.

Anything less = massive underachievement

I do think this narrative people are saying that it's okay if we finish 10th aslong as Mount and James play 40 games beyond ridiculous.

Firstly because it's subconsciously patronising them, even at this stage they are a lot better than happy clapping with the likes of Watford in mid table and secondly it's not like we are promoting 17/18 year olds without any senior expierence, "the academy 8" all have about 300 appearances between them and they're coming into a group of serial winners.

We should be looking at a top four challenge.

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20 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I think this season should be as follows when assessing Frank's performance.

Top 4 or more = overachieving

Challenging for top 4 = par for the course

Finishing 6th with mid 60s points = below par but not a disaster given the circumstances.

Anything less = massive underachievement

I do think this narrative people are saying that it's okay if we finish 10th aslong as Mount and James play 40 games beyond ridiculous.

Firstly because it's subconsciously patronising them, even at this stage they are a lot better than happy clapping with the likes of Watford in mid table and secondly it's not like we are promoting 17/18 year olds without any senior expierence, "the academy 8" all have about 300 appearances between them and they're coming into a group of serial winners.

We should be looking at a top four challenge.

This I can back, except you should change Finishing 6th to Finishing 5th/6th. Finishing 5th/6th with 60+ points is not a disaster and we have to remember why we are in this position in the first place: the board with their past idiotic shady practices and not doing the business in past windows before the ban.

The board is using Lampard as a shield just in case we get into shit.

7th and under, then I'm sorry...I'll find it hard to believe it's "just the players" and the board.

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If we finish 6th with no trophy frank hasn't failed. I don't even think he's underperformed.

Outside the top 6 he has flopped imo.


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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19 hours ago, Robchels said:

That’s actually the main argument for starting the best players even if they are not 100% and then deal with the subs as needed.

start with the most senior players to avoid situations like that. Then add youngsters for minutes and for mixing things up.

no, nothing is a sure thing, but things are more likely to happen with the senior players since they already happened for them before. For ex, giroud is more likely to score at this level than a youngster who never scored at this level. Giroud would have been more likely to have scored that sitter. Tammy lowered his head and hit it. not great technique tbh. All these small decisions are likely to have influenced in the outcome and the final score line. 

No one wants a return of of the lack of youth development from mourinho era, but imo nobody forced frank to use so many youngsters in a single match, against a top club in their turf. Agree or disagree, that was a questionable decision, and one which did not quite work.

another thing I can add is that it is a very common tale with overly young sides: they have the impetus, the work rate, sometimes even play well and look good, but lack the finishing touch and make too many small mistakes that hinder the team. And they are usually more likely to choke under stress, of say, having to chase a result after conceding early. Again, for obvious reasons... I mean it should be obvious.

Playing both mount and tammy made sense. Giroud has no future with us, if there is a time to try Tammy, this is the year. If he can't do it, then next year we need a striker. 

Mount is a bit different, with the high pressing that Lamp want to do, Mount is better than Barkley. 

 

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FRank said several times already he has a certain vision in mind and that we must work super hard in training. He wants direct and fast footy, but he aint that stupid to play attack attack attack and utterly neglict the other aspects. He will figure something out, he will act if it aint working. This is a free hit season, yes its our own doing we are here now and the board will likely not learn but give it a chance.....anything above 6th and its a bonus, cuz this squad have serious flaws man ( thanks board ), hard work and belief with some tactical know-how will yield decent results.

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30 minutes ago, communicate said:

Playing both mount and tammy made sense. Giroud has no future with us, if there is a time to try Tammy, this is the year. If he can't do it, then next year we need a striker. 

Mount is a bit different, with the high pressing that Lamp want to do, Mount is better than Barkley. 

 

Yeah that’s exactly where frank err and where I disagree with you and @Tomo

that match shouldn’t have been about the future! Play the senior to stabilize the team which will also help the younger players.

I’ve seen younger sides go into losing spirals quite easily. Starting Tammy over giroud in that game was a massive mistake and I do t even like giroud.

even the shape was poor... bring one of the ams back into cm as Oscar used to do. Make it compact. Sorry very naive strategy and formation. I hope it was a one-off tho.

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10 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Yeah that’s exactly where frank err and where I disagree with you and @Tomo

that match shouldn’t have been about the future! Play the senior to stabilize the team which will also help the younger players.

I’ve seen younger sides go into losing spirals quite easily. Starting Tammy over giroud in that game was a massive mistake and I do t even like giroud.

even the shape was poor... bring one of the ams back into cm as Oscar used to do. Make it compact. Sorry very naive strategy and formation. I hope it was a one-off tho.

I won't argue much regarding whether should Giroud play or not. For me playing Giroud or Tammy is fine with me. 

Regarding Oscar, Lamp want to play high press. There is no way Mount will drop deep. Is it naive? Maybe, but it has been our strategy since pre season so it is not one off. I think right now the problem is we are quite disorganized in term of our pressing. We conceded 4 against team who I thought played poorly at both side of the ball. They were clinical though. 

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18 minutes ago, communicate said:

I won't argue much regarding whether should Giroud play or not. For me playing Giroud or Tammy is fine with me. 

Regarding Oscar, Lamp want to play high press. There is no way Mount will drop deep. Is it naive? Maybe, but it has been our strategy since pre season so it is not one off. I think right now the problem is we are quite disorganized in term of our pressing. We conceded 4 against team who I thought played poorly at both side of the ball. They were clinical though. 

Folks who say they are not worried should be. Bad results and poor performances can really become a deterrent to youth development.

Ah regarding your second point, that’s worrying. I say that because I don’t think we have the players for the high press esp defense. The left side is ok with Emerson and Andreas, but the right is for a diff style.

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2 hours ago, Jason said:

An additional way to qualify for the Champions League? 

Next summer we will spend more than ever no doubt after transfer ban. Plus with no European football anything less than title next season is not acceptable. 

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8 hours ago, Supermonkey92 said:

Would there in principle be a situation this season where frank deserves criticism?

Let's say we lose 5-0 tonight. All the same problems from Sunday happen and we are just as naive as when we went 2-0 down.

Would that be dismissed as part of the learning curve? Or can we say ' you know what, for the players confidence right now it's important not to get hammered.'

I'm not saying we will get smashed, but whilst one half of the forum (including me) are strongly pessimistic. The other half can't seem to handle frank getting criticised. Even when managers should be.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

We didn't lose by 5 tonight, we actually did better then most people thought. 

At the end people was right it's a learning curve. 

As always people with their knee jerk reaction after one game. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Really happy with the way Chelsea and the youth played today. I think Frank's ideas for the team are slowly coming into effect.

Come home, Frank.

Let the season begin at Stamford Bridge.

?? Slowly coming into effect? That takes a while. 

Expect to have a lot of up and downs this season. 

I think next season is when we shall see if there's tangible progress. 

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I like how he changed formation, lineup and approach for this game. Didn't understand Tomori sub and too put Abraham for fifth penalty. 

Anyways he is so promising. I'm sure he'll be here more than any other manager in the last 30,40 years. 

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1 minute ago, Blue Armour said:

Well, that was my point.

Slowly.

Yes so expect to have a lot of ups and down. Some good games some bad games. 

But I suspect we will improve over the course of the season. By march and up we should see a better stamp of authority. 

One thing I like about Lampard and have always said it, it's his brain. Mourinho was amazing because when he was younger he had his brains and flexibility to analyze and reshape. Now he's not like that, I guess as you get older mind don't function as before and as well if your ego gets in your way. 

But after Mourinho mark 1 the second smartest manager we had for me was Conte. Problem with Conte was his fight with the board. 

Now to me Lampard is the 3rd inteligent manager we have in the Roman era and because of his connection with the the club and his charisma he might come good and last a while. 

Mourinho and Conte where great minds but their issue was their character towards the board. Let's hope Lampard learns from this as well. 

Blue Armour likes this

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