Super Frank Thread

[OneMoSalah 8,609]

Just now, Jason said:

Point is, Lampard has gotten results against the best/better managers but hasn't done it against someone like Solskjaer. 

True. I think United have just managed phases of the games against us better as well as having been more clinical. With regards to teams being clinical, it has been a bit of a recurring theme this season too that we haven't scored when our play has warranted it, ie that first half v United we were on top and didnt take advantage then United ended up winning the game quite comfortably in score. The Norwich and Sheffield United games as well come to mind which ties in with the dropped points v smaller teams. 

[Jase 43,479]

7 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

True. I think United have just managed phases of the games against us better as well as having been more clinical. With regards to teams being clinical, it has been a bit of a recurring theme this season too that we haven't scored when our play has warranted it, ie that first half v United we were on top and didnt take advantage then United ended up winning the game quite comfortably in score. The Norwich and Sheffield United games as well come to mind which ties in with the dropped points v smaller teams. 

For me, we need to do what Solskjaer has been doing against us. Be more pragmatic and somewhat play on the break. Pretty much in all the 3 games against them this season, we looked clueless in breaking them down and then got suckered punch with silly goals at the other end. They did what we used to do to Wenger's Arsenal. 

[Jase 43,479]

7 minutes ago, Mana said:

Well IMO beating Klopp in the league cup...doesn’t really count, especially when we didn’t go on to win it.

You mean the FA Cup...? Even if we don't go on to win it, Lampard still got the better off Klopp and the same thing should have happened in the Super Cup as well. 

[Tomo 21,681]

41 minutes ago, Jason said:

It's dumb when you think Lampard has beaten Klopp, Guardiola and Mourinho this season but has failed to get anything against Solskjaer. 

Just some sort of weird bogey thing. Jose had it against O Neil, Conte against Wenger, Fergie against our pre Roman sides.

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Just some sort of weird bogey thing. Jose had it against O Neil, Conte against Wenger, Fergie against our pre Roman sides.

I guess. But the dumb thing is we haven't beaten Solskjaer's United once in 5 games and the last time we even beat them was in the FA Cup final, which feels like ages ago now. 

[NikkiCFC 7,561]

16 minutes ago, Mana said:

Well IMO beating Klopp in the league cup...doesn’t really count, especially when we didn’t go on to win it.

We were better in all three games against Liverpool this season.

[Tomo 21,681]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

I guess. But the dumb thing is we haven't beaten Solskjaer's United once in 5 games and the last time we even beat them was in the FA Cup final, which feels like ages ago now. 

Hopefully we break the curse the way we did with the one Liverpool under Kenny had on us (the cup final).

[communicate 2,703]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

It's dumb when you think Lampard has beaten Klopp, Guardiola and Mourinho this season but has failed to get anything against Solskjaer. 

United is a very difficult team to play though. Good defense, super fast attacker. Plus for all the bs that United way is an attacking way, solkjaer big game plan is even more defensive than Mou. 

[Johnnyeye 7,403]

On 6/17/2020 at 3:21 AM, Tomo said:

Just worked out that if City beat Arsenal and Burnley and Liverpool only win win 1 of their next 2 we will hand Liverpool the title ourselves if we beat City after that 

you nailed it mate  

[Superblue 6,331]

Starting to see some maturity and real signs of development in both Lampard's management and the players over the last few games pre and post lockdown.

Whilst I would have preferred the season to be much smoother, I do feel everybody will benefit in the longer run for the difficult moments and grind experienced this season.

The wins against Liverpool and Everton (and the comprehensive manner in which we won them) were a massive boost of confidence to return back to. The Villa game was very positive to come from behind because it hasn't happened nearly often enough this season, and then last night we could have easily been blown away when they equalised but the team dug in and re-took the momentum in the last 25 of the second half and with the chances created I feel fully deserved the win.

It's still very much a work in progress but we seem to have hit a patch of form just at the right time and I'm pleased to see the team starting to show a bit more fight and personality in our performances.

[milka 3,305]

 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

19 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

The points weve dropped against smaller teams has been a disappointment as well

If we hadnt done that we would be ahead of city....even half that would have done so.

[DDA 9,570]

Even if we somehow blow a CL spot. For me, Frank has done wonders in his first year. He has surprised me with the way he has introduced the youth smoothly whilst still maintaining a challange for top 4. With zero transfers too. Excellent stuff Frankie.

[Vesper 27,280]

City win a significant signpost on Lampard’s long road to catch top two

https://theathletic.com/1893894/2020/06/26/chelsea-2-1-manchester-city-liverpool-title-lampard-guardiola/

Frank Lampard quickly made it clear he did not agree with the prevailing narrative of the night. “I don’t think this game decided the title,” he insisted at the start of the press conference that followed Chelsea’s 2-1 win over Manchester City, which officially confirmed Liverpool as Premier League champions. “That was decided a long time ago through Liverpool’s consistency, performances and wins.”

He’s right, of course. This was not Chelsea breaking hearts as they did to Tottenham at Stamford Bridge in May 2016 to complete the Leicester City fairytale. Here, they merely provided some belated closure to a Premier League title race that had run its course well before the COVID-19 pandemic struck, applying the finishing blow to City.

But his keenness to draw attention to the totality of Liverpool’s achievement this season is also indicative of a broader point. Lampard has taken every opportunity to express admiration for the work that Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola have done over the past three years because it is the particular type of achievement that chimes with his own aspirations.

He too wants to establish himself as a manager who can lead a club on a longer-term journey to success, to be considered a team-builder worthy of comparison to the more experienced men he now counts as Premier League rivals. It is why he took such a leading role in the acquisitions of Hakim Ziyech and Timo Werner, pitching the latter on his “three-year plan” to take Chelsea back to the top tier of English and European football.

These journeys are punctuated by signature moments, on and off the pitch. Chelsea’s victory over City felt like one of them, though admittedly rather muted in the surreal environment of an empty Stamford Bridge. Guardiola’s team are, even without the injured Sergio Aguero, the most formidable team beaten in the Lampard tenure and they played up to their reputation for stretches of each half.

They were also sloppy and Chelsea were ruthless, itself a sign of positive growth near the end of a season in which wastefulness has too often been the undoing of Lampard’s side..

Christian Pulisic was one miraculous Kyle Walker goalline clearance away from making it three goals in two games since the restart and his sensational solo run for the opener provided further evidence of a potentially foundational piece of the next great Chelsea team. “He’s a young player but he’s got so much talent and he can get better and better,” Lampard said of the American.

At the other end, Andreas Christensen was key to weathering the City storm, winning all eight of his duels and misplacing just three of his 46 passes. Not even a ball to the face could faze him. Lampard may have picked one of the more experienced starting XIs of a season defined by a vibrant youth movement but Chelsea’s two best performers on the night are 24 and 21.

This win was not an ideological validation for Lampard. Chelsea, having enjoyed more possession in 29 of their previous 30 Premier League games this season, were restricted to a 35.3 per cent share of the ball here, such is generally the way against Guardiola sides — and Bayern Munich achieved a similar level of control en route to a 3-0 win at Stamford Bridge in February. This time, Chelsea played when they could, and when they could not, they did enough to make sure they survived.

Lampard picked his team not to battle City’s strengths but to exploit their weaknesses. That is an approach more in keeping with the best of Chelsea’s pragmatic heritage in the Roman Abramovich era but it also required some bold selection decisions: N’Golo Kante rather than Jorginho at the base of midfield; Ross Barkley instead of Mateo Kovacic; Olivier Giroud’s link-up play favoured over Tammy Abraham’s greater mobility and energy up front.

Chelsea do not have a tactical visionary like Guardiola or Klopp: the two main figures at the head of the possession and pressing revolutions in football this century. Lampard is, however, a smart coach enhanced both by the courage of his convictions and his willingness to try things. The fact his players rallied after both water breaks against City also speaks well of his skill as a motivator.

Add that to his deep knowledge of the unique decision-making culture at Chelsea and it’s clear Lampard is better equipped than any manager before him to oversee a longer-term build at Stamford Bridge. His decision to empower a group of highly-talented academy graduates in the first-team squad has already put the club on an upward trajectory.

Abramovich’s willingness to spend suggests he too senses an unprecedented opportunity. Liverpool tracked Pulisic before Chelsea moved aggressively for him in January 2019 and wanted Werner before the COVID-19 pandemic forced them to reassess their plans. Whether or not the club follow through on their sincere interest in Kai Havertz, there is no doubt that arguably, for the first time since signing Kante in the summer of 2016, they are shopping solely in the premium aisles again.

Almost five years in the making under Klopp, Liverpool are now a historically great team in their prime, the benchmark for excellence in England and in Europe. City, heading into their fifth season under Guardiola, have the talent and the resources to retool quickly. Lampard is under no illusions about the scale of the task Chelsea face to reach them. “There is a clear gap and it won’t happen overnight with one or two signings,” he insisted. “There’s a lot of work that needs to be done.

“Liverpool and City have been works in progress for a few years and they are getting success now. I’m not getting carried away. We can get better.”

The history of the Premier League, however, tells us that no team dominates for quite as long as we think they should. Sir Alex Ferguson came closer than anyone to mastering the art of perpetual winning at Manchester United but his greatness lay in minimising the painful transitions between his dominant sides — not in eliminating them entirely.

Liverpool are back on their perch for now, with City their only serious domestic threat — but of the rest aspiring to reach the summit in the coming years, Chelsea have most cause for optimism.

[Johnnyeye 7,403]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

City win a significant signpost on Lampard’s long road to catch top two

https://theathletic.com/1893894/2020/06/26/chelsea-2-1-manchester-city-liverpool-title-lampard-guardiola/

Frank Lampard quickly made it clear he did not agree with the prevailing narrative of the night. “I don’t think this game decided the title,” he insisted at the start of the press conference that followed Chelsea’s 2-1 win over Manchester City, which officially confirmed Liverpool as Premier League champions. “That was decided a long time ago through Liverpool’s consistency, performances and wins.”

He’s right, of course. This was not Chelsea breaking hearts as they did to Tottenham at Stamford Bridge in May 2016 to complete the Leicester City fairytale. Here, they merely provided some belated closure to a Premier League title race that had run its course well before the COVID-19 pandemic struck, applying the finishing blow to City.

But his keenness to draw attention to the totality of Liverpool’s achievement this season is also indicative of a broader point. Lampard has taken every opportunity to express admiration for the work that Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola have done over the past three years because it is the particular type of achievement that chimes with his own aspirations.

He too wants to establish himself as a manager who can lead a club on a longer-term journey to success, to be considered a team-builder worthy of comparison to the more experienced men he now counts as Premier League rivals. It is why he took such a leading role in the acquisitions of Hakim Ziyech and Timo Werner, pitching the latter on his “three-year plan” to take Chelsea back to the top tier of English and European football.

These journeys are punctuated by signature moments, on and off the pitch. Chelsea’s victory over City felt like one of them, though admittedly rather muted in the surreal environment of an empty Stamford Bridge. Guardiola’s team are, even without the injured Sergio Aguero, the most formidable team beaten in the Lampard tenure and they played up to their reputation for stretches of each half.

They were also sloppy and Chelsea were ruthless, itself a sign of positive growth near the end of a season in which wastefulness has too often been the undoing of Lampard’s side..

Christian Pulisic was one miraculous Kyle Walker goalline clearance away from making it three goals in two games since the restart and his sensational solo run for the opener provided further evidence of a potentially foundational piece of the next great Chelsea team. “He’s a young player but he’s got so much talent and he can get better and better,” Lampard said of the American.

At the other end, Andreas Christensen was key to weathering the City storm, winning all eight of his duels and misplacing just three of his 46 passes. Not even a ball to the face could faze him. Lampard may have picked one of the more experienced starting XIs of a season defined by a vibrant youth movement but Chelsea’s two best performers on the night are 24 and 21.

This win was not an ideological validation for Lampard. Chelsea, having enjoyed more possession in 29 of their previous 30 Premier League games this season, were restricted to a 35.3 per cent share of the ball here, such is generally the way against Guardiola sides — and Bayern Munich achieved a similar level of control en route to a 3-0 win at Stamford Bridge in February. This time, Chelsea played when they could, and when they could not, they did enough to make sure they survived.

Lampard picked his team not to battle City’s strengths but to exploit their weaknesses. That is an approach more in keeping with the best of Chelsea’s pragmatic heritage in the Roman Abramovich era but it also required some bold selection decisions: N’Golo Kante rather than Jorginho at the base of midfield; Ross Barkley instead of Mateo Kovacic; Olivier Giroud’s link-up play favoured over Tammy Abraham’s greater mobility and energy up front.

Chelsea do not have a tactical visionary like Guardiola or Klopp: the two main figures at the head of the possession and pressing revolutions in football this century. Lampard is, however, a smart coach enhanced both by the courage of his convictions and his willingness to try things. The fact his players rallied after both water breaks against City also speaks well of his skill as a motivator.

Add that to his deep knowledge of the unique decision-making culture at Chelsea and it’s clear Lampard is better equipped than any manager before him to oversee a longer-term build at Stamford Bridge. His decision to empower a group of highly-talented academy graduates in the first-team squad has already put the club on an upward trajectory.

Abramovich’s willingness to spend suggests he too senses an unprecedented opportunity. Liverpool tracked Pulisic before Chelsea moved aggressively for him in January 2019 and wanted Werner before the COVID-19 pandemic forced them to reassess their plans. Whether or not the club follow through on their sincere interest in Kai Havertz, there is no doubt that arguably, for the first time since signing Kante in the summer of 2016, they are shopping solely in the premium aisles again.

Almost five years in the making under Klopp, Liverpool are now a historically great team in their prime, the benchmark for excellence in England and in Europe. City, heading into their fifth season under Guardiola, have the talent and the resources to retool quickly. Lampard is under no illusions about the scale of the task Chelsea face to reach them. “There is a clear gap and it won’t happen overnight with one or two signings,” he insisted. “There’s a lot of work that needs to be done.

“Liverpool and City have been works in progress for a few years and they are getting success now. I’m not getting carried away. We can get better.”

The history of the Premier League, however, tells us that no team dominates for quite as long as we think they should. Sir Alex Ferguson came closer than anyone to mastering the art of perpetual winning at Manchester United but his greatness lay in minimising the painful transitions between his dominant sides — not in eliminating them entirely.

Liverpool are back on their perch for now, with City their only serious domestic threat — but of the rest aspiring to reach the summit in the coming years, Chelsea have most cause for optimism.

great read, the future really looks bright for Chelsea  

[11Drogba 2,000]

A bit of unpredictability is beneficial for us. Adaptable but not a tinker.

[MoroccanBlue 5,191]

Rudiger + Christensen vs technical/speedy attackers. 

Rudiger/Tomori + Zouma vs Strong aggressive attackers. 

[Henrique 9,133]

Lampard improved in recent games (even before the pandemic). At some point this season it seemed he was more concerned about developing young english players than anything. For example, he deployed Azpi as LB only to accommodate James on the starting XI. That didn't make sense, because Azpi still is a batter RB than James, but Azpi isn't a better LB than Alonso. Not to mention the privileges Mount receive for most part of the season, and even Barkley was given the "penalty taker" role in the beginning of the season.

In recent games he dropped most of those things, and he (re)introduced Giroud, Alonso and Pedro into the team. Yesterday against Leicester it was very telling the fact he dropped James, Gilmour and Mount during the half time. I'm also happy he didn't jump into Gilmour hype train and didn't rushed him into the first team. When the squad is full, there is no place for Gilmour on the first team yet. It seems he also realized Pulisic can't be sitting on the bench.