Super Frank Thread

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Looks increasingly out of depth, we all know part of the reason the board hired him was because they wanted to please the fans, to get us sorta out of their backs. We had transer ban and whatnot, but still I see no progress sadly, have seen none of that since oktober. He shuffles way way too much, why so may changes? Where is puli? What the fuck is going on with injuries, he is overworking them I feel. Cant close gaps, cant defend the spaces. 

I would so love it if he came good but ths task at hand is too big for a rookie with 1 year experience, we have killed off far better managers nevermind a rookie. We need a quality manager to get us through this mess.

I'll take Poch Conte Allegri or Simeone on the spot if we could. Lamps needs less pressure and more time at a smaller Club and then maybe he will come good. For this project at such a Club....is a huge ask. The most likely scenario is he will be kept, Poch goes to udt and we revisit the same mistakes and issues come next season, if he stays I hope thats not the case though.

[Alabama 1,992]

The state of this forum is highly ridiculous...

Stereotyping a manager that has not gotten a single player in let alone see how he will perform yet the master know all on here will just assess him and give him a ridiculous verdict....

No wonder we are called plastic fans...

[Atomiswave 6,072]

4 minutes ago, Alabama said:

The state of this forum is highly ridiculous...

Stereotyping a manager that has not gotten a single player in let alone see how he will perform yet the master know all on here will just assess him and give him a ridiculous verdict....

No wonder we are called plastic fans...

Come now, we all want him to do good here, but you must admit we see no progress. If we didnt have the ban I bet we would still see these issues, fundamental flaws that he must get rid off. Lets see how it ends come summer, I hope he pulls through.

[Jase 43,479]

Tony Cascarino on Lampard...

https://www.football.london/chelsea-fc/news/frank-lampard-chelsea-bayern-munich-17819828

"It's an awkward one with Frank, because we have had words before," the former Republic of Ireland international told talkSPORT on Wednesday morning.

"Not bad, but I had a phone call and things were said.

"If I'm being brutally honest, I've always found Frank to be a little bit spikey with some of the things that you say, and you can be complementary but Frank takes it slightly the wrong way.

"I'm not convinced by his management at times this year, because I do think it's an easy excuse just to go youngster, youngster – he's changed that team a hell of a lot.

"I don't like the Kepa issue. He deserved to get dropped, but keeping him out of the team – I'm not so sure that's a good decision.

"You have to show loyalty to players sometimes, even after a bad game.

"But it's happening all over the pitch, everywhere has been changed, everybody has been changed around.

"It's really hard to guess Chelsea’s XI and that tells you in some way that Frank is spinning plates around his team.

"We’re giving him the benefit of the doubt because he's new to this role of a Premier League manager and Chelsea have been in a very difficult situation where there’s been a lot of change and no buying power.

"But what I see, just look at the games they've lost, the amount of games they've lost and the goals-against column – that tells you a big story, that they can’t defend very well.

"I can't see [how that can improve] unless you buy new players, but you've also got to look at your system."

[Alabama 1,992]

29 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Come now, we all want him to do good here, but you must admit we see no progress. If we didnt have the ban I bet we would still see these issues, fundamental flaws that he must get rid off. Lets see how it ends come summer, I hope he pulls through.

Yeah I can understand the plight of everyone here as we all want the best for the club...but cmon even Guardiola wont have any impact with the current crops of players we have...Yeah am not exonerating Lampard of any criticism especially the defensive aspect and some of his controversial decisions but at least give him the benefit of the doubt...and my Simeone Pochetino that has not won any trophy and yet a little bit of challenges we bin this project and move to the next one....a move that has seen us regressed for the past few years now...what can a top manager achieve with Azpi Alonso Willian Jorginho Christensen Zouma Rudiger Bats Emerson...what I ask? Yesterday clearly shows the gulf in quality between a top club and a wishy washy club we are now while Bayern weren't that spectacular ...that's why I found it ridiculous people saying we don't need Sancho because we have gotten Hakim....if opportunity arise make use of stack the club with quality not quantity...

[Vesper 27,283]

21 hours ago, Iggy Doonican said:

I'm pretty pissed i actually went to the game some of us do I'm skimming this my polItics are RMT rep since 1992 and a Labour party member since 1984 at the height of the miners strike. I'm a shed boy of nearly 50 years you follow Chelsea on the internet that's all you've never been to the bridge if you have it's on your own sitting on your own changing the names on the programme because that just wouldn't do. Post your Chelsea history mate and then I'll post mine and we'll then we'll see who is plastic Argo.

lol at YOU being accused of being a closet Tory

roflmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

ffs, it is like people don't even read posts here, it's just bombs away

smdh

[Vesper 27,283]

2 hours ago, Iggy Doonican said:

I'm going to go into self imposed exile for a while (or maybe quarantine is more apt with the coronavirus ) so here's my final post on Lampard.

I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here but in my opinion Lampard hasn't got the minerals to be a top coach. You can argue he was dealt a bad hand with the transfer ban, injuries and the board not sanctioning any buys in January but I think it's etched on his face he realises what a big job he's taken on and he at the moment can't provide the answers.

Kepa has gone backwards, he's had six different centre back pairings and none of them look particularly good. Aspi hasn't been great at right back even worse at left back and while none of us thought Emerson was Roberto Carlos but he's been awful. Kante has been shit since his injury and I'm not convinced with either Tammy or Mount their young and could improve but they were playing in the championship last season and at times it shows.

I said months ago that he should have appointed an experienced no 2 someone like McClaren dreadful manager but good coach. I really can't see Jody Morris telling Frank what to do and to be honest I don't think Lampard would listen anyway I do think and probably most will disagree that Lampard comes across as a bit pleased with himself.

Nine home defeats already and with Liverpool on the horizon it will if not against them hit double figures this season and for a team that went 86 games unbeaten that's an appalling stat. Bottom line is Lampard's status is keeping him in the job I know a lot of fans will disagree and I can understand the reluctance to slag him off but lets be honest anyone else and they'd be gone look at the shit Sarri took. If things don't improve Lampard will be gone in October and talking of going that's me for a while KTBFFH and Carefree where ever you may be.

nooooooooooo dun leave sweetie

[Vesper 27,283]

Chelsea’s senior players were shown up by Bayern. It’s time for some to move on

https://theathletic.com/1636892/2020/02/26/chelsea-bayern-munich-champions-league/

Frank Lampard spoke of reality checks and learning curves in the aftermath. It was probably the only rhetoric he could summon that threw the focus sufficiently forward, for lingering too long on the run-around his team had just endured at the hands of Bayern Munich, a class apart throughout, would have been too painful. Too damaging. The head coach had to frame this ignominy in the context of what Chelsea still aspire to become. He had to offer hope.

So he acknowledged the Germans’ greater comfort on the ball and, in a numbed monotone, spoke of how clinically they had sliced his team apart after the interval. “We have to accept that fact and be honest with ourselves,” he said. “Those are the levels the Champions League brings at the knockout stage. It’s a learning curve for the club.

“Since 2012, we haven’t enjoyed great success in this competition. We haven’t been reaching the back end of it for some years. This is the reality of what it takes. We have to see the bigger picture. This game showed where we need to get to. There’s a lot of hard work to do. Our players will look at who they were up against and see the levels we want to attain.”

It was the right message to send out to the juniors in the ranks. Mason Mount, his mind frazzled by the time he sliced that shot horribly into the Matthew Harding Stand late on, and Reece James may have departed Stamford Bridge bruised by the brutality of it all, but they have now been set new targets. Learn from this chastening experience and they will benefit in the long-term. So, too, Tammy Abraham, for all that he will have had fitness issues on his mind after limping away from the warm-down on the pitch. Fikayo Tomori, the injured Callum Hudson-Odoi and even Christian Pulisic, in civvies just behind the bench, will also have surveyed the scene as an education.

This generation of spritely talent remains Chelsea’s future. A Champions League drubbing in the last 16 should not detract from the progress they have made, as a group, this season. There is reason still to rejoice in this club’s pledge to youth, and their continued development remains the bigger picture to which Lampard referred.

But what of the elder statesmen in the ranks? The more troubling image painted by Bayern’s rampaging second-half display was of a core of Chelsea players whose better days are behind them, and others whose careers may have plateaued prematurely. Of personnel whose assets may have been blunted by time or, conversely, under-use.

It was of Cesar Azpilicueta slipping in the build-up to Serge Gnabry’s opener, with the Spaniard — for all his heaving effort — unable to recover the space to the winger as he glided unchecked into the box. Or Jorginho pawing anxiously at the scorer’s back while Gnabry was still outside the penalty area, and then watching helplessly as the forward converted Robert Lewandowski’s pull-back with ease.

Perhaps the Italy international was still stewing on the caution he had just accrued for dissent, a booking which will keep him out of the second leg and left Lampard exasperated. That was not the example Jorginho was supposed to set. Certainly, the masterclass in progressive passing put on by Thiago Alcantara left the toils of his opposite number in blue all too clear. Thiago had set upon Jorginho in the game’s early stages, discomforting him and starving him of possession. He never truly recovered his composure.

The home side, with their metronome thrown off-kilter, were made to look increasingly anxious in their own delivery. “At this level, if you give possession away, you’re punished at some stage,” offered Arsene Wenger from a television studio in the Gulf as he picked apart everything he had just witnessed. “They make you run too much and you cannot survive for 90 minutes. In the Champions League, if you lose the midfield, you’re in trouble. That’s rule number one because you play against such good teams. If they can feed their strikers, you will pay for it. We’ve all gone through that.”

Wenger’s Arsenal teams did regularly over the latter years of his tenure, invariably unravelling against the first pedigree opponent they met in the knockout phase. The spankings to which they were subjected by Bayern or Barcelona almost became an annual event, with his players mercilessly made to chase the ball before, once exhausted, their every individual error was ruthlessly punished. Chelsea endured the same treatment here. Bayern may have gone in at the break with the game still goalless and apparently in the balance, but they knew their hosts had been run ragged — the visitors had 65 per cent of the ball in the first half — and would wilt upon the resumption.

How Lampard must have pined for a N’Golo Kante free of niggling injuries to swarm across midfield, disrupting everything Bayern sought to muster. In his absence, Lampard’s team were vulnerable and, once breached, overwhelmed. Azpilicueta, a stalwart of 370 appearances for the club, was beaten in the air by Lewandowski on the halfway line while still digesting their first concession and, marooned so far upfield, utterly unable to recover his position against such slippery opposition.

Olivier Giroud may have excelled against Tottenham Hotspur at the weekend, but Bayern exposed him as ring-rusty: a striker lacking service and, ahead of this tie, limited to 93 minutes of first-team football in his legs since November. Antonio Rudiger is a fine defender, but not a strong-arm leader capable of turning this tide. Pedro and Willian, both out of contract in a few months’ time, are far from the forces they once were. In Kepa Arrizabalaga Chelsea boast the world’s most expensive goalkeeper, but a player whose confidence is shattered to the extent that, at present, he finds himself consigned to the bench.

He is not alone in struggling to fulfil potential. Ross Barkley, while more of a regular of late, still feels more integral to the England set-up than to his club, while Marcos Alonso’s late rush of blood reflected a wing-back fighting to mask the deficiencies in his defensive game. The 29-year-old, like Jorginho, will be suspended for the return on March 18 in Bavaria.

But, realistically, are any of these players able to consider an occasion this humiliating as part of some grander education or progression? Perhaps that might apply to Andreas Christensen, who is still only 23 and whose career has been so stop-start since he broke through under Antonio Conte. But when Lampard urged his squad to “look at who they were up against and see the levels we want to attain”, some might be forgiven to have concluded that such standards will forever be beyond them.

The head coach singled out Mateo Kovacic, alone, for praise with the Croatian’s experience as a three-time winner of this competition with Real Madrid setting him apart. But the collective was made to look what it is: a squad whose forays into the transfer market have been stunted by a UEFA ban and a recent window when they found the required talent was less available, together with the sale of their best player in a generation; and a club who have not won a Champions League knockout tie in six years.

There is still promise. The youngsters retain the faith of the management staff and will continue to progress. The signing of Hakim Ziyech, who will complete his move from Ajax in the summer, is an indication that Chelsea will compete in the market and resist a similar slump to that endured by Arsenal in those barren years of regression. But there will need to be plenty more players of Ziyech’s calibre secured over the summer to lift the overall quality of the group.

The youngsters will learn and, if they are as talented as their displays this season suggest, improve. Others might simply need to move on.

[Tomo 21,681]

8 hours ago, Atomiswave said:

Yes yes I hear you mate....issue is its not about telling them, you have to show it to them. You have to harras them, guide them on the field. They must know you are there to point out their in-game flaws. What they are doing right and wrong, work on the flaws etc. The likes of DS are supreme when it comes to passion and fight, he will get your ass focused for 90min, there is a reason his teams play with such desire and will, it comes from him.

I still think he should have done a lot better in the last few years given Real/Barca lulls.

Everyone raves about Simeone while mocking Benitez but the latter actually managed to succeed where Simeone failed and took advantage of Real/Barca transition periods to win two titles while with Valencia, since 2016 Simeone has had a glorious chance to similarly sweep up and hasn't took it.

[Yeboii 1,844]

People forget we are still in 4th place.

[chippy 342]

For all those who want to see Frank sacked after 8 months and no new signings.

Should the next manager, and the one after that and the one after that be given only 8 months to turn things around and start making us look like title contenders? If not, then you are not being fair or consistent.

At the start of the season we all knew there'd be lots of ups and downs but we'd be prepared to put up with that during the rebuilding of the team. We've had exactly what we expected but already some have turned against the manager. 

Liverpool finished 8th in Klopp's first season and it took him 3-4 years to turn things around. The Liverpool fans stayed fully behind the manager and the the team and look where they are now.

It was mentioned yet again in the match day thread on Tuesday about the poor atmosphere at the Bridge. If we're not going to support the manger and the struggling team better than we're doing then we really don't deserve to be a top club any more!

 

 

 

.

 

[Fulham Broadway 16,386]

17 hours ago, Tomo said:

Thankyou and I apologize aswell as I crossed the line in areas especially with the Boris/Brexit comments,

Lol Iggy is the polar opposite -he's a union rep like myself.

I notice it always kicks off on here when we get a bad loss. You two have Chelsea at heart, and is forgivable  -unlike others that turn up on here when we lose just to stir shit. 

Back to Frank I think he speaks well after the matches, win or lose. One I thing I don't get is Tomori should be first on the team sheet next to Rudi. Bottom line he has to have time and some buys. Then again its just my opinion like everyone else has one, meaningless really.

[Jase 43,479]

20 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

The problem is I don't envisage any style of play being immediately successful with our current group of players because it's such a contrasting mix.

Most of our older, experienced players have been through the Conte era, and even the Mourinho era and either suit or have been coached into them the defensive, conservative style of football.

Then we have the few players we've brought in the last 18 months and our academy players who suit a more progressive, attacking style. 

Based on the above, it makes sense to continue trying to build in a more progressive, attack minded nature rather than the defensive, pragmatic one where we'd almost be needing to rebuild again from scratch. The signing of Ziyech suggests we're not planning to waver from this currently either.

Until we're able to build with 15-18 players, let alone a squad, that all suit and complement a particular style of play we're going to have problems. This is the point of being patient, we're less than 2 years into making a complete change of philosophy which is hard enough, let alone losing a world class goalkeeper and our best player/talisman whilst navigating a transfer ban. In reality we need another couple of summer transfer windows before we're likely to be anything capable of challenging at the top of the league.Until then, we need to show some progression.

I don't think it's necessarily that black and white, in the sense that you have to choose one playing style and play that only. We gotta be a bit flexible and be able to do both if we want to succeed in the long run. Yes, we should have a predominant style of play - e.g. attacking football - but we must also know how to play conservatively/how to be pragmatic (and I don't mean we should take it to the extreme like Mourinho does) and when to do it, whenever necessary. If we only know one way of playing, we'll eventually become predictable and can be easy to stop. Even Guardiola and Klopp aren't 100% all about attacking football, they also know when to rein in a little by making small tactical tweaks etc when the game requires it. The most disappointing thing for me with our current side is the lack of pragmatism, the inability to be defensively organized (we don't look well coached defensively at all), the inability to withstand pressure when needed to. Ask this team to sit back and defend for even just 5 minutes and chances are we will very likely concede, which is silly when you consider half of the current side have played at least under a conservative manager like Conte previously (e.g. Azpi, Christensen, Rudiger, Alonso, Emerson, Kante, Giroud, Willian, Pedro, Barkley). Right now, we only know how to attack, attack, attack at 200 miles per hour. It's great when it works, when we are able to dominate possession and pin the opposition back but when it doesn't, we turn the game into a basketball game [e.g. Valencia away, (to some extent) Bayern at home], which is a recipe for disaster given we aren't coached on how to defend properly. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

12 hours ago, Tomo said:

I still think he should have done a lot better in the last few years given Real/Barca lulls.

Everyone raves about Simeone while mocking Benitez but the latter actually managed to succeed where Simeone failed and took advantage of Real/Barca transition periods to win two titles while with Valencia, since 2016 Simeone has had a glorious chance to similarly sweep up and hasn't took it.

Yeah but its not like for like is it, that was in what 2002-03? He is not exactly loaded with Cash either like barca and rm. Many of his players have been sold or grown too old by footy standards. His spending has been very minimal compared to the other 2 overall. He is quality manager, one that is tactically astute, he knows how to shape a team, how to organize.........def a master at motivating his lot and making sure they fight till the end. I miss that here I really do.

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Has anyone found out if poch was invited by bayern or us?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[Vesper 27,283]

how shit the EPL is this season

Chelsea at 41 points before the Spuds game were the worst 4th place team points-wise 26 games in since 2003/4

if we won EVERY remaining game left

we would only end up on 77, ffs

that would still be THIRTY-FIVE points behind the bindippers if they win out

[Superblue 6,331]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

I don't think it's necessarily that black and white, in the sense that you have to choose one playing style and play that only. We gotta be a bit flexible and be able to do both if we want to succeed in the long run. Yes, we should have a predominant style of play - e.g. attacking football - but we must also know how to play conservatively/how to be pragmatic (and I don't mean we should take it to the extreme like Mourinho does) and when to do it, whenever necessary. If we only know one way of playing, we'll eventually become predictable and can be easy to stop. Even Guardiola and Klopp aren't 100% all about attacking football, they also know when to rein in a little by making small tactical tweaks etc when the game requires it. The most disappointing thing for me with our current side is the lack of pragmatism, the inability to be defensively organized (we don't look well coached defensively at all), the inability to withstand pressure when needed to. Ask this team to sit back and defend for even just 5 minutes and chances are we will very likely concede, which is silly when you consider half of the current side have played at least under a conservative manager like Conte previously (e.g. Azpi, Christensen, Rudiger, Alonso, Emerson, Kante, Giroud, Willian, Pedro, Barkley). Right now, we only know how to attack, attack, attack at 200 miles per hour. It's great when it works, when we are able to dominate possession and pin the opposition back but when it doesn't, we turn the game into a basketball game [e.g. Valencia away, (to some extent) Bayern at home], which is a recipe for disaster given we aren't coached on how to defend properly. 

I agree with what your saying, there has to be more than just a plan A and we do need to be able to withstand and soak up pressure at times in games. That's the most disappointing aspect of a number of these losses is we've dominated the game and then been unable to cope with not much more than a 5 or 10 minute period of pressure from the opposition.

You mentioned Guardiola and Klopp but they both needed time to implement their styles and both were initially suspect at the back, with both spending a lot of money to rectify that.

Apart from Tomori and James, the rest of our defence played under Mourinho and/or Conte, being used to playing deep leaving little space behind them and were also well protected in front of them. They're being found out massively now that we're trying to play expansive football. 

The other problem in our defence is there's no leader there. I love Azpi and the career he's given the club but he's not really a leader. None of our defence have ever needed to be the leader in the backline. They've all played alongside Terry, Cahill and to a lesser degree Luiz and so none have needed to do this previously. I was hoping Rudiger would become that player and he's still got time on his side to develop and be that player because he does have leadership-like traits about him. 

I'm not going to argue that defensively we're not good enough currently under Lampard and he has to take a lot of responsibility for that. But also until one of our defenders (preferably a centre back) is prepared to become the leader we need to marshal and organise that back four, we're going to keep struggling.

[Jase 43,479]

24 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I agree with what your saying, there has to be more than just a plan A and we do need to be able to withstand and soak up pressure at times in games. That's the most disappointing aspect of a number of these losses is we've dominated the game and then been unable to cope with not much more than a 5 or 10 minute period of pressure from the opposition.

You mentioned Guardiola and Klopp but they both needed time to implement their styles and both were initially suspect at the back, with both spending a lot of money to rectify that.

Apart from Tomori and James, the rest of our defence played under Mourinho and/or Conte, being used to playing deep leaving little space behind them and were also well protected in front of them. They're being found out massively now that we're trying to play expansive football. 

The other problem in our defence is there's no leader there. I love Azpi and the career he's given the club but he's not really a leader. None of our defence have ever needed to be the leader in the backline. They've all played alongside Terry, Cahill and to a lesser degree Luiz and so none have needed to do this previously. I was hoping Rudiger would become that player and he's still got time on his side to develop and be that player because he does have leadership-like traits about him. 

I'm not going to argue that defensively we're not good enough currently under Lampard and he has to take a lot of responsibility for that. But also until one of our defenders (preferably a centre back) is prepared to become the leader we need to marshal and organise that back four, we're going to keep struggling.

The individuals are a problem and individual mistakes have fucked us up a lot this season but at the same time, not many people have questioned how we have allowed the goals we conceded come about. How often have we - as a unit - made life difficult for opponents to score against us this season? How often have we - as a unit - made opponents work really hard or have to come up with something special to score against us? Take the Bayern game for example. Yes, they are a class above us but look at how much space they had every time they went on the offence and they pretty much were able to get at our defence on every attack. We barely stopped their attacks in midfield or far away from our penalty box. And we also didn't help matters by overcommitting in attack - both wingbacks just bombed forward, Kovacic/Jorginho got forward - and that led to many easy turnovers for Bayern, who probably couldn't believe their luck at the amount of space they got to play with! That's why I said we need to be a little pragmatic, especially in cases like this. Bayern were always expected to win and that's fine but I would have preferred if we had reined it back a little, played more streetwise rather than played with reckless abandon. We gave ourselves no chance whatsoever by being so open against them, especially knowing they have better players than us at this point of time.