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the wes

Aleksandr Golovin

Started by the wes,

455 posts in this topic
5 minutes ago, whats happening said:

wow guebbeles is in monaco? 'they' say he will be a world class stirkers...same as pellegri

Monaco complete €20m deal for Lyon wonderkid Geubbels

https://www.goal.com/en/news/monaco-complete-20m-deal-for-lyon-wonderkid-geubbels/1a506brwcdsq11n2nnlzhp96qa

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19 hours ago, Vesper said:

They have had insane injury issues

Danijel Subasic, their starting keeper, is out

Diego Benaglio  b/u GK, was out

Kamil Glik, starting CB just came back after a month out

Djibril Sidibé, starting RB, is out

Almamy Touré , b/u RB/CB, is out

Ronaël Pierre-Gabriel yet another RB, missed 3 months

Jean-Eudes Aholou Starting DMF, is out

Kévin N'Doram  b/u DMF is out

Aleksandr Golovin starting AMF  multiple injuries so far

Willem Geubbels  b/u LW (and superb young 17yo potential star) out (has been for 4 months now with torn hamstring)

Rony Lopes  starting RW, is out

Jordi Mboula  b/u RW, is out

Falcao starting CF was out earlier

Stevan Jovetic starting CF (when they play 4 4 2) out multiple times, out now

Pietro Pellegri (super young 17yo striker) is out

And yet I've just read a post implying very strongly that Emenalo is to blame for their difficulties.

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On 18/12/2018 at 10:21 PM, OhForAGreavsie said:

And yet I've just read a post implying very strongly that Emenalo is to blame for their difficulties.

I wouldnt put majority blame on him, he has only been there 12 months.

He got around £105m for Thomas Lemar and Fabinho, who were going to leave anyway, £15m overall in sales £285m if you count the last part of the Mbappe deal with PSG, which was not done on his watch)

and bought a tonne of super you players for great prices

Monaco's downfall started well before he came in, other than Sidibe, and ageing Falcao and a marginal Jemerson/Glik CB combo (Lopes was too young to play much then) they had almost completely gutted that great 2016-17 CL semifinalist Mbappe-led team. Before Emenalo there, the only players of import (not prospects who are 16,17,18) they bought were Youri Tielemans (who has been a semi-bust, surprisingly, although I expect him to come good in a big way) and then Keita Balde, who is on loan to Inter (and doing well).

They have an incredible group of  thirteen (and more on reserves) 17yo to 21yos. 7 of them still teens, who may be worth £500m plus in 4,5,6 years.

These were Emenalo's first inbound transfers:

I sure hope Jonathan Panzo doesn't come back to bite us in the arse, he sure looked a decent talent at CB.

1b789770892f672e9edc296c0c2f7d18.png

If they get relegated, I dont think they will lose many of the veterans, maybe Sidibe, maybe Golovin. I dont think they go down though, Amiens, Angers, Caen, Dijon and for sure Guingamp are far less in talent clubs (there are others too).

Stade Reims manager, David Guion, is a miracle worker. he has them in the top half of the table with a squad worth around £46m in total! (on Transfermrkt) They might come crashing down too.

 

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38 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

And yet I've just read a post implying very strongly that Emenalo is to blame for their difficulties.

I didn't say it is all his fault, but you think Sporting Director has zero responsibility when a team goes to relegation zone, has 13 point after 17 games?

 

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24 minutes ago, 11Drogba said:

I didn't say it is all his fault, but you think Sporting Director has zero responsibility when a team goes to relegation zone, has 13 point after 17 games?

 

I have no idea who is responsible - I don't watch Monaco or follow their squad building activity. I just know that your post implied exactly what you say here that you did not say there. Well, ok, thank you for the clarification.

I also know that people who say our problem is that we don't have a DoF are not fully expressing their point of view. Their point of view can't be that just waving the magic wand of appointing a director of football will solve the problem. Look at Monaco. They appointed a DoF yet you say their problem is not solved. Again, what you say simply proves my point.

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13 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I have no idea who is responsible - I don't watch Monaco or follow their squad building activity. I just know that your post implied exactly what you say here that you did not say there. Well, ok, thank you for the clarification.

I also know that people who say our problem is that we don't have a DoF are not fully expressing their point of view. Their point of view can't be that just waving the magic wand of appointing a director of football will solve the problem. Look at Monaco. They appointed a DoF yet you say their problem is not solved. Again, what you say simply proves my point.

I said it would be the first step to be run like other successful European clubs. I guess you don't want our club to be run like most successful clubs in Europe, you just want to call yourself right.

Emenalo is just a bad example for a DoF. Real had Zidane, Bayern has Sammer and the example you constantly bring up is Emenalo. I guess he was a player like Zidane and Sammer for you.

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9 minutes ago, 11Drogba said:

I said it would be the first step to be run like other successful European clubs. I guess you don't want our club to be run like most successful clubs in Europe, you just want to call yourself right.

Emenalo is just a bad example for a DoF. Real had Zidane, Bayern has Sammer and the example you constantly bring up is Emenalo. I guess he was a player like Zidane and Sammer for you.

Now you're sounding daft. I'll reply fully in the board thread.

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3 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Now you're sounding daft. I'll reply fully in the board thread.

I sound daft and you are always right. This is how most of your discussions end by the way. You called Vesper a troll not so long ago.

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2 minutes ago, 11Drogba said:

I sound daft and you are always right. Very mature from you.

You are the one who described my post as bullshit so don't go all coy now

I've struggled to get the right quotation organised in the board thread so I'll ask my question here. What point is it you think I have been making? You simply do not seem to have understood it at all.

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30 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

You are the one who described my post as bullshit so don't go all coy now

I've struggled to get the right quotation organised in the board thread so I'll ask my question here. What point is it you think I have been making? You simply do not seem to have understood it at all.

Your original point was that most people want DoF that he would agree with them. I don't think you can read most people's mind.

Most people have specific names in their minds for DoF. I know this from their posts. They want either a football legend or someone with proven record like Luis Campos or Marotta, but your example is always Emenalo who is in neither category.

Why do you think people always mention Drogba, Ballack or Campos? Do you think they know they would agree with them on every transfer?

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Actually wes proved my point here.

1 hour ago, the wes said:

I like ballack he's a great guy and Chelsea legend aswell but he has no experience for DOF role we should go luis campos for DOF role he did great job at Monaco

You assumed people like wes want a DoF that would agree with them.

The fact is wes prefers a DoF with experience and a succesfull record.

Now you can go on assuming wes and Luis Campos agree on our transfers and that's why wes wants a DoF.

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2 hours ago, 11Drogba said:

Your original point was that most people want DoF that he would agree with them. I don't think you can read most people's mind.

Most people have specific names in their minds for DoF. I know this from their posts. They want either a football legend or someone with proven record like Luis Campos or Marotta, but your example is always Emenalo who is in neither category.

Why do you think people always mention Drogba, Ballack or Campos? Do you think they know they would agree with them on every transfer?

My point is twofold:

First, simply saying we need a DoF is not enough. Any old DoF will not do for the people making that point. We had a DoF and they were not satisfied so surely this is not a controversial statement.

Second, they want a DoF who does what they want done. We may not have anyone holding the title DoF at the moment, but someone is fulfilling the role. Someone is appointing and controlling the head scouts. Someone is designating the transfer policy and the profile of player we want to attract. Someone is acting as manager and point of contact to Maurizio Sarri, Neil Bath, and Adrian Jacob. Marina is the current hate figure but I doubt that she is handling all of those duties. We don't know who is doing these functions but they must be happening. Problem is posters on here don't like the way it is being done. Why? Because the decisions being made are not the ones they want to see. They want someone who will agree with them.

This does not mean that the agreement must be about specific players but rather about the general approach to contracts and transfers and football policies. Cut the deadwood we read regularly, reduce the loan army, loosen the over thirties contract straightjacket, pay whatever the selling club wants, pay Eden whatever he wants, and so on. Are you telling me that if Ballack were appointed, and continued the current policies, people would be content just because he is Michael Ballack? I doubt it. I think they'd by just as discontent as they are now because what they really mean when they say they want a DoF is that they want one who agrees with them.

More than one person has asked why Roman does not sack Marina. The answer to that is blindingly obvious. Roman does not sack Marina because he is happy with what she is doing. Unlike any of us, he knows what her real goals, and real restrictions, are. He knows because he gave them to her. Just like any of us he wants a DoF who agrees with him but, unlike any of us, he gets to have his way.

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13 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

My point is twofold:

First, simply saying we need a DoF is not enough. Any old DoF will not do for the people making that point. We had a DoF and they were not satisfied so surely this is not a controversial statement.

Second, they want a DoF who does what they want done. We may not have anyone holding the title DoF at the moment, but someone is fulfilling the role. Someone is appointing and controlling the head scouts. Someone is designating the transfer policy and the profile of player we want to attract. Someone is acting as manager and point of contact to Maurizio Sarri, Neil Bath, and Adrian Jacob. Marina is the current hate figure but I doubt that she is handling all of those duties. We don't know who is doing these functions but they must be happening. Problem is posters on here don't like the way it is being done. Why? Because the decisions being made are not the ones they want to see. They want someone who will agree with them.

This does not mean that the agreement must be about specific players but rather about the general approach to contracts and transfers and football policies. Cut the deadwood we read regularly, reduce the loan army, loosen the over thirties contract straightjacket, pay whatever the selling club wants, pay Eden whatever he wants, and so on. Are you telling me that if Ballack were appointed, and continued the current policies, people would be content just because he is Michael Ballack? I doubt it. I think they'd by just as discontent as they are now because what they really mean when they say they want a DoF is that they want one who agrees with them.

More than one person has asked why Roman does not sack Marina. The answer to that is blindingly obvious. Roman does not sack Marina because he is happy with what she is doing. Unlike any of us, he knows what her real goals, and real restrictions, are. He knows because he gave them to her. Just like any of us he wants a DoF who agrees with him but, unlike any of us, he gets to have his way.

Not untrue.

Though, I would say, it's not entirely about having a director that does things I (personally, because I keep saying we need a DoF) agree with, necessarily.  There are some decisions and actions that I are frankly ridiculous.  Like how the Courtois situation was handled, with no back up plan. 

You're right, we have no idea what Roman's real goals are.  It just seems baffling that any plans could be to leave everything so late and apparently directionless.  I think that it wouldn't just be us, most football people would find this baffling.  But, you're correct, that's not down to a DoF.  It would only be down to a DoF if that was what their job description (at our club) entailed.

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5 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

My point is twofold:

First, simply saying we need a DoF is not enough. Any old DoF will not do for the people making that point. We had a DoF and they were not satisfied so surely this is not a controversial statement.

Second, they want a DoF who does what they want done. We may not have anyone holding the title DoF at the moment, but someone is fulfilling the role. Someone is appointing and controlling the head scouts. Someone is designating the transfer policy and the profile of player we want to attract. Someone is acting as manager and point of contact to Maurizio Sarri, Neil Bath, and Adrian Jacob. Marina is the current hate figure but I doubt that she is handling all of those duties. We don't know who is doing these functions but they must be happening. Problem is posters on here don't like the way it is being done. Why? Because the decisions being made are not the ones they want to see. They want someone who will agree with them.

This does not mean that the agreement must be about specific players but rather about the general approach to contracts and transfers and football policies. Cut the deadwood we read regularly, reduce the loan army, loosen the over thirties contract straightjacket, pay whatever the selling club wants, pay Eden whatever he wants, and so on. Are you telling me that if Ballack were appointed, and continued the current policies, people would be content just because he is Michael Ballack? I doubt it. I think they'd by just as discontent as they are now because what they really mean when they say they want a DoF is that they want one who agrees with them.

More than one person has asked why Roman does not sack Marina. The answer to that is blindingly obvious. Roman does not sack Marina because he is happy with what she is doing. Unlike any of us, he knows what her real goals, and real restrictions, are. He knows because he gave them to her. Just like any of us he wants a DoF who agrees with him but, unlike any of us, he gets to have his way.

Case is closed for me after wes' post. Many people who want a DoF like at other successful football clubs give specific names based on their past like wes did there, not because they know that person would make the every  transfer they have in mind.

You are not totally wrong though some people will always criticize the DoF, the manager and the board, and the criticism will increase when the club is not successful. Mourinho and Conte were being criticized by some for playing too pragmatic and too defensive even when we were successful, so you are right that some people want managers and DoFs that would do what they have in mind, but until we drop significantly in the table those people are in minority. His last season  most people voted that Mourinho should stay until the end before we were in the relegation zone. So I would not put everyone in the same basket.

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14 hours ago, Vesper said:

I wouldnt put majority blame on him, he has only been there 12 months.

He got around £105m for Thomas Lemar and Fabinho, who were going to leave anyway, £15m overall in sales £285m if you count the last part of the Mbappe deal with PSG, which was not done on his watch)

and bought a tonne of super you players for great prices

Monaco's downfall started well before he came in, other than Sidibe, and ageing Falcao and a marginal Jemerson/Glik CB combo (Lopes was too young to play much then) they had almost completely gutted that great 2016-17 CL semifinalist Mbappe-led team. Before Emenalo there, the only players of import (not prospects who are 16,17,18) they bought were Yuri Tielemans (who has been a semi-bust, surprisingly, although I expect him to come good in a big way) and then Keita Balde, who is on loan to Inter (and doing well).

They have an incredible group of  thirteen (and more on reserves) 17yo to 21yos. 7 of them still teens, who may be worth £500m plus in 4,5,6 years.

These were Emenalo's first inbound transfers:

I sure hope Jonathan Panzo doesn't come back to bite us in the arse, he sure looked a decent talent at CB.

1b789770892f672e9edc296c0c2f7d18.png

If they get relegated, I dont think they will lose many of the veterans, maybe Sidibe, maybe Golovin. I dont think they go down though, Amiens, Angers, Caen, Dijon and for sure Guingamp are far less in talent clubs (there are others too).

Stade Reims manager, David Guion, is a miracle worker. he has them in the top half of the table with a squad worth around £46m in total! (on Transfermrkt) They might come crashing down too.

 

Shame Guingamp is so shit this year. They are such a nice team to watch. Played realy entertaining football and managed to end up around 10th place in ligue 1 for a few seasons despite having spend less than 500k a year on transfers. 

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