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Madmax

Homegrown status

Started by Madmax,

We have 19 non-HG players in the squad but we can only register 17. Which 2 players would you get rid off to stay within the limits?   77 members have voted

  1. 1. We have 19 non-HG players in the squad but we can only register 17. Which 2 players would you get rid off to stay within the limits?


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165 posts in this topic

I wouldn't be so sure the time spent with the reserves will count in this case because back then he didn't even have a visa IIRC and couldn't play official youth nor reserve games before the transfer became official in 2012 so it wasn't like other academy players. And even if it did count it wouldn't make a difference because there's still no way he should count as homegrown, at least not yet, because he definitely only joined the reserve team sometime in the summer of 2011 and your sources are wrong if they're saying 2010. By the time he went on loan to Malaga he had only been training at the club for a year and a half, a year of that under contract, and the requirement to be homegrown is three years which Piazon sure as hell did not meet.

e: Just checked wikipedia and turns out he was able to play official reserve and youth games back in 2011 but still that doesn't change anything, fact remains he had only been at the club for 1.5 years before being shipped out on loan.

I think you're actually right. He did join in 2011. So the link in the OP got it wrong on both occasions: his joining date and his homegrown status. Apologies.

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I wouldn't be so sure the time spent with the reserves will count in this case because back then he didn't even have a visa IIRC and couldn't play official youth nor reserve games before the transfer became official in 2012 so it wasn't like other academy players. And even if it did count it wouldn't make a difference because there's still no way he should count as homegrown, at least not yet, because he definitely only joined the reserve team sometime in the summer of 2011 and your sources are wrong if they're saying 2010. By the time he went on loan to Malaga he had only been training at the club for a year and a half, a year of that under contract, and the requirement to be homegrown is three years which Piazon sure as hell did not meet.

e: Just checked wikipedia and turns out he was able to play official reserve and youth games back in 2011 but still that doesn't change anything, fact remains he had only been at the club for 1.5 years before being shipped out on loan.

The guy who compiled this list (@chelseayouth on twitter) confirmed Piazon isn't HG; it's a copy-paste error on their part. They've corrected it.
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The guy who compiled this list (@chelseayouth on twitter) confirmed Piazon isn't HG; it's a copy-paste error. They've corrected it.

They also have his joining year wrong.

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They also have his joining year wrong.

I didn't check. Posted the link because chelseayouth is a good account and thechels.org are a great CFC resource in my experience.

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In a team of 25, the team need at least 8 home grown players. A homegrown player is, irrespective of nationality, someone who has trained in England for at least 3 years between ages of 16-21.

Does it has to be 3 years consecutive or at least 3 years from that age bracket?

Wow, £30m for Luke Shaw looking pretty good right now..

It does, but if we stick with either PVA or Ryan it will not be needed.

All up to Mourinho and the club in what they choose to do.

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I didn't check. Posted the link because chelseayouth is a good account and thechels.org are a great CFC resource in my experience.

That's unacceptable, Jai. You're one of our oldest members, a TC legend, what kind of example are you setting to the new members by posting links with wrong info? Where's your reliability and integrity? Think about your reputation, man. Unacceptable, I say!

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In every form of life a host country core is needed, regardless off whichever of the foreign lads count as HG, we need an English core off 6-8 players at the club atleast.

Im not saying it because im English, if i was a Napoli fan id want an Italian core, if i was a Monaco fan id want a French core, if i was a Levski Sofia fan id want a Bulgarian core.

We need some HG players, which is why i think we need to sign Luke Shaw or John Stones.

Your generalizing men. You don't know if that's the truth.

Cause you don't know if some people would rather have a star then have a fucking useless player just because he's from the country.

It all depends what are the goals of the fans and club.

If I where the FA, I would actually provide some kinda of incentive to clubs that use English players. At least then, the risk reward ratio will be more balance.

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In every form of life a host country core is needed, regardless off whichever of the foreign lads count as HG, we need an English core off 6-8 players at the club atleast.

Im not saying it because im English, if i was a Napoli fan id want an Italian core, if i was a Monaco fan id want a French core, if i was a Levski Sofia fan id want a Bulgarian core.

We need some HG players, which is why i think we need to sign Luke Shaw or John Stones.

I'm fine with this but aslong as the Englishmen are as good as the foreigners they are replacing. Otherwise it would be an idealistic thought that would weaken the squad. In a sense this HG rule is hampering the trading and developing of English talents, because the selling club is in a very good bargaining position knowing that the clubs - in order to maximize their squad depth - will have to cough up.

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Your generalizing men. You don't know if that's the truth.

Cause you don't know if some people would rather have a star then have a fucking useless player just because he's from the country.

It all depends what are the goals of the fans and club.

If I where the FA, I would actually provide some kinda of incentive to clubs that use English players. At least then, the risk reward ratio will be more balance.

Im talking about if I was a fan off those clubs, i would still want a HG core like i do now.

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I'm fine with this but aslong as the Englishmen are as good as the foreigners they are replacing. Otherwise it would be an idealistic thought that would weaken the squad. In a sense this HG rule is hampering the trading and developing of English talents, because the selling club is in a very good bargaining position knowing that the clubs - in order to maximize their squad depth - will have to cough up.

Agreed, which is why i hope Shaw or Stones sign.

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Im talking about if I was a fan off those clubs, i would still want a HG core like i do now.

HG right? As opposed to out right English?

Cause that's two different meaning for pl.

In fact for those that want to improve England, HG rules actually hinder as it has nothing to do with establishing an English core.

But just get any good youngster from anywhere in the world to satisfy that rule.

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IMO, what's needed more than a 'core' of English/HG players is to have a quality HG option for each position. It lends a better balance to the team and the squad while obviously not compromising on the overall quality.

For example, we spent this season with Hilario as our 3rd choice goalie. He contributed nothing to the campaign (not his fault he wasn't called upon, mind), all the while eating up a precious foreign slot. Would giving that exposure to Blackman not have made more sense? I look around our squad and its fringes and most of our HG contingent is around central defence. We have no locally developed players in attacking midfield or up front. If Lukaku (less likely) and Moses (quite likely) are sold, that situation would become worse still. Whereas if we have a scattering of reliable local players all over the pitch, not only does it do wonders for the confidence of our academy and other younger players, it is also cost effective.

With that in mind, for next season I'd like us to have Blackman for GK, Kalas for CB, PvA for LB, Chalobah for CM, Lukaku for ST with JT, Cahill and Lampard rounding off our quota of 8.

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HG right? As opposed to out right English?
Cause that's two different meaning for pl.

In fact for those that want to improve England, HG rules actually hinder as it has nothing to do with establishing an English core.
But just get any good youngster from anywhere in the world to satisfy that rule.

Yeah if i supported a foreign club i would want a core off players from that country.

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Handy page detailing the HG status of our current squad for PL and CL competitions :

http://thechels.info/wiki/First_team_squad

______________________________________________________________________

I searched for threads with discussion about 'homegrown' quota but found no results. If one exists, I hope the mods merge these threads.

Victor Moses... suddenly I change my mind about him. I think we should give him a chance if he perform well in WC, and I couldn't believe I said this.

Ryan Bertrand too.

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Does it has to be 3 years consecutive or at least 3 years from that age bracket?

That's a good question sir. IIRC it's 3 years from that bracket, hence the discussion about about Piazon's loan move. That'll need clarification however**

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Very simple to understand why FA want to "save" english football and impose more rules in the home grown quota. Just look at the numbers of mediocre "prospects": Marin, Salah, Moses. England can produce better players than that.

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In a team of 25, the team need at least 8 home grown players. A homegrown player is, irrespective of nationality, someone who has trained in England for at least 3 years between ages of 16-21.

He's there as an U21 but will Kalas be homegrown when he no longer qualifies as an U21?

Also, how is Piazon HG? He's only been at the club for two and a half years, most of that time on loan at clubs outside England. That's what has always been unclear to me, does it matter homegrown-wise if a player goes on loan to a foreign club?

Did a check on the HG status of our squad last week and we should be fine, even with a few signings, because there will be some departures as well but long-term it would be great to have a few new HG players in, either from our own academy or bought from other English clubs..

" The 25-man Premier League squad list must include no more than 17 'non-homegrown' players over the age of 21. 'Homegrown' players are defined as those who irrespective of nationality or age, have been affiliated to the FA or Welsh FA for a period of three seasons or 36 months prior to their 21st birthday...."

So apparently it doesn't matter if they've played in England or not. Even if they'd be playing in the other side of the world, our loanees would still be considered 'Homegrown' because they're still Chelsea players at the end of the day. At least, that's my understanding of it.

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" The 25-man Premier League squad list must include no more than 17 'non-homegrown' players over the age of 21. 'Homegrown' players are defined as those who irrespective of nationality or age, have been affiliated to the FA or Welsh FA for a period of three seasons or 36 months prior to their 21st birthday...."

So apparently it doesn't matter if they've played in England or not. Even if they'd be playing in the other side of the world, our loanees would still be considered 'Homegrown' because they're still Chelsea players at the end of the day. At least, that's my understanding of it.

When someone goes out on loan, they become affiliated to the FA of the league they're going out on loan to - so a loan year in a foreign country does not count as a HG year.

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When someone goes out on loan, they become affiliated to the FA of the league they're going out on loan to - so a loan year in a foreign country does not count as a HG year.

Are you sure about that? True that they've affiliated with the league that they've gone to, but it's not like they're unaffiliated with our FA anymore, since they are still a part of Chelsea FC. They're still tied to us regardless of where they're playing, after all.

af·fil·i·ate

a person or organization officially attached to a larger body.

^ This is what I'm trying to get at. They're still officially a part of Chelsea FC, right?

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