Chelsea 3-0 Luton Town

[robsblubot 3,508]

14 minutes ago, Gundalf said:

Just a random run of destiny, u cant explain it. Not even Chelsea fans thought its possible before the season started. 

They didnt perform before that and didnt perform after that. Not a single one of this team is actually performing well elsewhere atm. 

The lack of character this team showed last season is unprecedented and unforgivable. They didnt even try. They didnt care about this club whatsoever, not a bit. Lowest league position in the last 30 years and they seemed ok with that. If u consider the amount of money they cost and earned they actually ARE the biggest losers in Chelsea history. 

Sorry, but none of that matters. It's wrong to call actual winners, losers. If you call them "the biggest bunch of losers in Chelsea history." then what would you call the players who never won a thing, which are most players really?
Players go through long careers winning little to nothing, and never get close to a CL win. They've won! like it or not, that's factual... the silverware is in Chelsea's trophy room.

The rest is just your opinion about 4-5 starters of a team who won big and did not quite scrape wins like prior teams did. They did not suffer as other teams did. Also played the best there was in that run and beat them all. It does not matter what they did in other competitions... why should it?!

I personally have tremendous respect for winners; even players who I personally dislike for one reason of another.

"Not a single one of this team is actually performing well elsewhere atm."
way too soon for that opinion. They've just left and some are fairly young. Kovacic and Kai are yet to TIE a game, but whatever. 😅

[Gundalf 804]

12 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Sorry, but none of that matters. It's wrong to call actual winners, losers. If you call them "the biggest bunch of losers in Chelsea history." then what would you call the players who never won a thing, which are most players really?
Players go through long careers winning little to nothing, and never get close to a CL win. They've won! like it or not, that's factual... the silverware is in Chelsea's trophy room.

The rest is just your opinion about 4-5 starters of a team who won big and did not quite scrape wins like prior teams did. They did not suffer as other teams did. Also played the best there was in that run and beat them all. It does not matter what they did in other competitions... why should it?!

I personally have tremendous respect for winners; even players who I personally dislike for one reason of another.

"Not a single one of this team is actually performing well elsewhere atm."
way too soon for that opinion. They've just left and some are fairly young. Kovacic and Kai are yet to TIE a game, but whatever. 😅

A loser is someone that doesnt fulfill his potential and disappoints on all levels. Past achievements dont prevent u from being a loser in the present and future. Nothing can sugar coat the fact that a post Roman-entry Chelsea finished 12th.

They might have been winners in the past, but are definitely losers in the present. I cant think of a bigger L in last 30 years of this club. Can u?

Also your comparing individual performances to team results. Havertz didnt contribute to Arsenals wins at all. But funny how u say its still early days and we should wait and see while u seem very negative about our current team. Doesnt seem like your willing to give them some time as well. Maybe they will be CL winners as well in a few years?

Edited August 22, 2023 by Gundalf

[robsblubot 3,508]

14 minutes ago, Gundalf said:

A loser is someone that doesnt fulfill his potential and disappoints on all levels. Past achievements dont prevent u from being a loser in the present and future. Nothing can sugar coat the fact that a post Roman-entry Chelsea finished 12th.

They might have been winners in the past, but are definitely losers in the present. I cant think of a bigger L in last 30 years of this club. Can u?

Also your comparing individual performances to team results. Havertz didnt contribute to Arsenals wins at all. But funny how u say its still early days and we should wait and see while u seem very negative about our current team. Doesnt seem like your willing to give them some time as well. Maybe they will be CL winners as well in a few years?

Loser: a person, team, nation, etc., that loses:

Winner: a person or thing that wins; victor:

Dude IT IS A TEAM SPORT! INDIVIDUAL PERFORMANCES DO NOT MATTER WHEN THE TEAM WINS!!!!!

I have zero intention in discussion these opinions again, we've already disagreed 100% before. That's not the point here. I have an issue about you redefining what winning and losing is, that is pretty much it.

🤣 "A loser is someone that doesnt fulfill his potential and disappoints on all levels." WTF

Edited August 22, 2023 by robsblubot

[Gundalf 804]

18 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Loser: a person, team, nation, etc., that loses:

Well Chelsea lost 16 league games last season: the highest number of losses in a season since 1986. Fair to call them losers, since this is what they did every weekend. They produced an historic record of losses. Only 3 times in the entire clubs history, Chelsea got more losses in a 38 games season (1910, 1913 and 1915)

Edited August 22, 2023 by Gundalf

[robsblubot 3,508]

Just now, Gundalf said:

Well Chelsea lost 16 games last season: the highest number of losses in a season since 1986. Fair to call them losers, since this is what they did every weekend. 

Yeah nitpick last season, which is, by your own words a transition season w/ ownership change. Mudryk and Madueke played last season too, but I don't hear you talking about them.
Reece James, Chilwell, played a bunch of games too. So did Thiago Silva, so they are all losers by your batshit crazy definition, of course. 🙂 
Enzo played every game once we signed him and the record wasn't great was it? Was it his fault then?

One poor season does not erase a good season, much less a prior win. Winning takes a team. Some players do mundane tasks in a team and contribute for a win. Only one team wins each competition. It's freaking hard to win.

How is rewriting history different from lying?

[Gundalf 804]

21 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Yeah nitpick last season, which is, by your own words a transition season w/ ownership change. Mudryk and Madueke played last season too, but I don't hear you talking about them.
Reece James, Chilwell, played a bunch of games too. So did Thiago Silva, so they are all losers by your batshit crazy definition, of course. 🙂 
Enzo played every game once we signed him and the record wasn't great was it? Was it his fault then?

One poor season does not erase a good season, much less a prior win. Winning takes a team. Some players do mundane tasks in a team and contribute for a win. Only one team wins each competition. It's freaking hard to win.

How is rewriting history different from lying?

We havent had a good league season for 6 years now. It was not just last season. Also, u can turn from a winner into a loser, especially after a win, when complacency takes over like in our case. It started when Tuchel was here and was just gonna be prolonged over time. To judge a players or coaches ability by 1 piece of silverware they won is short sighted. Di Matteo won the CL, a CL winning coach. Doesnt make him a good coach and Chelsea should have never kept him after his win. Bertrand won the CL as a player, he still wasnt good enough for Chelsea. People defended Havertz bc of his CL winning goal -  1 moment doesnt erase the 50 poor games he played for us. By your logic, we should have kept Havertz only bc he scored 1 goal in a CL final, no matter how shit he was before that and after that. Doesnt make sense. This team wasnt a team anymore, it was falling apart. It was only the same team on paper, not in the players minds. 

Now we made sure we got rid of the foul apples like Mount, Havertz and co, who dont care about the club, who were lazy on the pitch, who had 0 motivation to be better and kept the ones that we can work with (u mostly named defensive players - defense wasnt even one of our big problems last season). 

Fact is that the team that won the CL went on to producing a historic record for losses. No way anyone can defend this shit. 

Maybe we should have kept Danny Drinkwater. He is a winner. Won the PL. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Gundalf

[robsblubot 3,508]

1 minute ago, Gundalf said:

We havent had a good league season for 6 years now. It was not just last season. Also, u can turn from a winner into a loser, especially after a win, when complacency takes over like in our case. It started when Tuchel was here and was just gonna be prolonged over time. To judge a players or coaches ability by 1 piece of silverware they won is short sighted. Di Matteo won the CL, a CL winning coach. Doesnt make him a good coach and Chelsea should have never kept him after his win. Bertrand won the CL as a player, he still wasnt good enough for Chelsea. People defended Havertz bc of his CL winning goal -  1 moment doesnt erase the 50 poor games he played for us. By your logic, we should have kept Havertz only bc he scored 1 goal in a CL final, no matter how shit he was before that and after that. Doesnt make sense. This team wasnt a team anymore, it was falling apart. It was only the same team on paper, not in the players minds. 

Now we made sure we got rid of the foul apples like Mount, Havertz and co, who dont care about the club, who were lazy on the pitch, who had 0 motivation to be better and kept the ones that we can work with (u mostly named defensive players - defense wasnt even one of our big problems last season). 

Fact is that the team that won the CL went on to producing a historic record for losses. No way anyone can defend this shit. 

Once again, I'm not interested in going back to the discussion about the players who have left -- I disagree 100% with every simple thing you wrote above, as I've disagreed before. Nothing will change here.

My issue was with calling actual winners -- of an amazing Champions League run beating the best teams at that -- "the biggest bunch of losers in Chelsea history."

[Gundalf 804]

1 minute ago, robsblubot said:

My issue was with calling actual winners -- of an amazing Champions League run beating the best teams at that -- "the biggest bunch of losers in Chelsea history."

I stand by that, especially BECAUSE they won the CL before. Its the discrepancy what makes it so horrific. I cant blame Luton Town for losing 16 games, I cant blame a 70s Chelsea for losing 16 games, but a multi million Roman era team that won the CL before finishing 12th with an historic amount of losses? This was the biggest L in Chelseas history and u cant name a bigger one. 

[robsblubot 3,508]

11 minutes ago, Gundalf said:

I stand by that, especially BECAUSE they won the CL before. Its the discrepancy what makes it so horrific. I cant blame Luton Town for losing 16 games, I cant blame a 70s Chelsea for losing 16 games, but a multi million Roman era team that won the CL before finishing 12th with an historic amount of losses? This was the biggest L in Chelseas history and u cant name a bigger one. 

The "they" there is so very selective tho. 😆 

[Gundalf 804]

12 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

The "they" there is so very selective tho. 😆 

Offensive players. Defense was never a problem. But the offense was. 38 goals scored....guess when was the last time Chelsea scored 38 goals or less before? Well, NEVER. This was a new negative record. Since 1905, no Chelsea team scored less than last year, 118 years of history. Now lets see which offensive players had the most minutes last season: Havertz, Mount, Sterling, Felix, Pulisic., Kovacic as an offensive minded midfielder. All gone except Sterling (who is only here now bc noone would actually buy him). 

52 million pounds of wages for an offense that produced the least amount of goals in Chelseas entire 118 years history. What would u call this?

Edited August 22, 2023 by Gundalf

[robsblubot 3,508]

4 minutes ago, Gundalf said:

Offensive players. Defense was never a problem. But the offense was. 38 goals scored....guess when was the last time Chelsea scored 38 goals or less before? Well, NEVER. This was a new negative record. Since 1905, no Chelsea team scored less than last year, 118 years of history. Now lets see which offensive players had the most minutes last season: Havertz, Mount, Sterling, Felix, Pulisic., Kovacic as an offensive minded midfielder. All gone except Sterling (who is only here now bc noone would actually buy him). 

52 million pounds of wages for an offense that produced the least amount of goals in Chelseas entire 118 years history. What would u call this?

You must be confusing the footballs. 🤣

There is one where the defense and the offense are different teams.

[Gundalf 804]

Yeah sure, Silva is as much to blame as Havertz for Chelsea not scoring enough. 

Well to end this discussion: Havertz, Mount and co are big losers and Im very happy these frauds are out of the club. Mount being trashed by United fans already gives me good vibes. Every single outgoing was justified.

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Gundalf

[Mário César 975]

yes our problem is not the defense and even midfielder but our attack is our main problem 

[robsblubot 3,508]

16 minutes ago, Gundalf said:

Yeah sure, Silva is as much to blame as Havertz for Chelsea not scoring enough. 

Well to end this discussion: Havertz, Mount and co are big losers and Im very happy these frauds are out of the club. Mount being trashed by United fans already gives me good vibes. Every single outgoing was justified.

 

Of course not, when a CB can make forward runs, push his team forward, and start attacks like Rudiger did over and over again in that CL run, that would never help the attack. 🙄

When David Luiz used to hit a long ball assisting our attackers, nope he's a defender only! 🙄

When Timo Werner "ran like a dog" closing down runners that did not help our defense one bit because he's an "attacker." 🙄

City must be a mystery to folks here: who's in attack? why is Stones moving up, or why is Ake behind Grelish now? 😕

And I thought "total football" was an old and known thing. My bad.

Edited August 23, 2023 by robsblubot

[Thor 2,392]

50 minutes ago, Gundalf said:

Yeah sure, Silva is as much to blame as Havertz for Chelsea not scoring enough. 

Well to end this discussion: Havertz, Mount and co are big losers and Im very happy these frauds are out of the club. Mount being trashed by United fans already gives me good vibes. Every single outgoing was justified.

 

I think football these days starts from the very back, and being able to get the ball up and down the pitch quickly is key. 

I'll probably get some hate for this, but I think Silva shouldn't be playing as much as he does. He is solid in the back, but I do feel he often slows our play down and keeps the tempo on the lower end of things. 

It was somewhat like Zlatan at Man United. He was scoring and still a great player, but I don't think he fits with what we are trying to do. 

[Gundalf 804]

27 minutes ago, Thor said:

I think football these days starts from the very back, and being able to get the ball up and down the pitch quickly is key. 

I'll probably get some hate for this, but I think Silva shouldn't be playing as much as he does. He is solid in the back, but I do feel he often slows our play down and keeps the tempo on the lower end of things. 

It was somewhat like Zlatan at Man United. He was scoring and still a great player, but I don't think he fits with what we are trying to do. 

Maybe on paper, but didnt really have an affect on the outcomes at least last season:

• Average goals scored with Silva starting last season: 0,92
• Average goals scored without Silva starting last season: 0,91

Edited August 23, 2023 by Gundalf

[Thor 2,392]

11 minutes ago, Gundalf said:

Maybe on paper, but didnt really have an affect on the outcomes at least last season:

• Average goals scored with Silva starting last season: 0,92
• Average goals scored without Silva starting last season: 0,91

Yeah, I feel there are a lot more variables to it than that such as who else was on the pitch and opponents played, etc. 

Even from just an eye test - it has appeared that way to me recently. 

[OneMoSalah 8,778]

Must win.

I mean lets be honest, anything but a win here and it would be an absolute travesty. I mean these are everyone’s nailed on first choice team to get relegated.

Bet they win 1-0 after claiming this but honestly if a £1 billion squad cannot get 3 points here we might as well give up - forget project 2030, we wont be any use by then either 😂

No wins in 3 when 2 of the games have been against West Ham and Luton would be an incredibly disappointing start. I mean granted there has been encouraging moments but encouraging moments need to turn into good performances and ultimately points.