🇳🇬 Mikel John Obi

[Blue Armour 4,439]

I still give you credit for cutting the initial image to give the feeling Mikel is a pensioner in wheelchair who cannot pass the ball. Fair play to you.

Do you even bother to read my post, or do you find it so tough to comprehend simple statements?

Nice illustrations, but I was referring to instances like in this picture:

For this particular example, there was no real problem as Ramires had moved forward when Hazard dropped deep. Thus the attacking shape was preserved. But there are instances where Mikel ponders with the ball too long, making the forward players drop back to make the pass Mikel could have made. This is detrimental in situations where we are on the back-foot/ chasing a game.

If I wanted to hide behind that picture, I wouldn't have bothered telling you from which point in the match that was from. The only reason I showed that picture was to show that there are instances when Mikel forces an attacker to drop deep JUST Like Hazard positioned himself in that one, when he could have opted for a better pass.

.I like you illustrations and generally agree with a lot of your posts, but the condescending nature of your replies is getting annoying.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Thing is, is he really that great defensively?

He seems to stroll around and end up in terrible positions..?

I have no diagrams, just my tired old eyes...

I think him + Ramires need replacing, if honest - Busquets + Alonso will do

That's what's funny - no he isn't

His positional sense is iffy, his work-rate is occasionally embarrassing and because he's slow to move the ball on sometimes, he can get caught in possession or isolated which puts pressure on the player he passes to.

[Muzchap 8,966]

That's what's funny - no he isn't

His positional sense is iffy, his work-rate is occasionally embarrassing and because he's slow to move the ball on sometimes, he can get caught in possession or isolated which puts pressure on the player he passes to.

Wow, you, me and @kojo are either all correct or horribly wrong

Lets see what happens

[The only place to be 11,313]

Wow, you, me and @kojo are either all correct or horribly wrong

Lets see what happens

I can't think of a more divisive player in Chelsea's recent history. Torres might come close but that argument could be settled by goals scored. Luiz maybe, but most people agree he has the talent but needs to cut out the brain farts and could be world class.

Mikel is really the marmite man (or so Clattenburg allegedly called him ). You either love him or hate him.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

So 1 decent pass every 2 games?

Fuck me that's worse than Torres!

Are you saying that only key passes are decent? You are skipping the game and watching the 5 min highlights. Sure they are more 'exciting' but there are 85 mins of hard work that made those 5 mins possible.

It is not Mikel's job to play key passes. His job, offensively, is to keep possession and move the ball to the players whose job is to make key passes. If he makes a key pass every other game, while not risking loosing possession cheaply, then that's a plus he brings.

Criticizing Mikel for not making enough key passes is about as logical as saying Ashley is terrible offensively because he never scores.

[The only place to be 11,313]

That's basic stuff, if you have no options, simply don't give the ball away cheaply

*cough* Juventus *cough*.

[Muzchap 8,966]

5

We can discuss about Mikel's evolution from 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1, what it implies on his passing, instructions etc... I'm fully open to discuss that.

But when we note that he doesn't pass enough forward, we've to take into consideration that he prefers hold the ball and chose another options than give the ball away.

That's basic stuff, if you have no options, simply don't give the ball away cheaply

Agree - but, is it a chicken and egg scenario...

Do players drop deep to get the ball because they know he 'cannot' find them?

If so then that is artificially distorting our shape and movement.

I don't know - I like Mikel as a person, just don't like him in that role, feel we're way too slow...

[Muzchap 8,966]

Are you saying that only key passes are decent? You are skipping the game and watching the 5 min highlights. Sure they are more 'exciting' but there are 85 mins of hard work that made those 5 mins possible.

It is not Mikel's job to play key passes. His job, offensively, is to keep possession and move the ball to the players whose job is to make key passes. If he makes a key pass every other game, while not risking loosing possession cheaply, then that's a plus he brings.

Criticizing Mikel for not making enough key passes is about as logical as saying Ashley is terrible offensively because he never scores.

Er not at all...

Why should a defender score? Stop twisting my words...

Mikel is supposed to:

A) Provide defensive cover

provide an outlet for defenders

So yes, as a COUNTER attacking team, he should be doing more with the ball, so should Ramires.

Instead our attacking players fall deeper and deeper to get the ball meaning less space/time on the ball and everything gets broken down.

That's my point, be interested to see how wrong I am

[Kojo 4,676]

Drogba doesn't score goals in finals, can't you just respect me and my opinion ? That's what I think.

Lampard doesn't score many goals each season, even for a midfielder. That's what I think, you have to respect that, you're not right just because you say to me he scored 10+ each season for 10 years.

That's always figures, figures. I think Lampard doesn't scores enough, the only thing you can respond to me is stupid scoring figures.

You got it wrong, Drogba scores in finals, that's a fact, 9 in 9, however you should've posted Drogba doesn't play well in finals, then you would have at least bit of an arguement. But even then Drogs usually performs top dog in finals and scores at the same time.

[Muzchap 8,966]

You should compare Ballack/Lampard's use of the space and availability alongside Mikel with our current attacking players'. You'll understand for sure what's about availability

There has been situations where Mikel didn't release the ball at the right time. But that's probably as frequent as his key passes compared to the amount of passes he plays. The amount of passes he plays would mean to be the situations where Mikel has litteraly no options around him.

That's about 0.5%/99.5% (exact rate of Mikel's key passes/passes from this season)

Ballack + Lampard were certainly more experienced than Mata/Oscar/Moses...

But I don't think they have confidence in Mikel finding them...

Hopefully we sign a good DM next to Mikel to take the pressure off and then we can see how the attacking lads respond to a good forward passer

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Er not at all... Why should a defender score? Stop twisting my words...

Where did I say you said that? I was making a comparison between Mikel not playing key passes and Cole not scoring, the common aspect of the two phrases being "it's not their job".

Mikel is supposed to: A) Provide defensive cover provide an outlet for defenders

Agree, but what does that have to do with his lack of key passes that we were discussing?

So yes, as a COUNTER attacking team, he should be doing more with the ball, so should Ramires. Instead our attacking players fall deeper and deeper to get the ball meaning less space/time on the ball and everything gets broken down. That's my point, be interested to see how wrong I am

Again that is besides our discussion. I really don't want to get into why at least one of the forwards should drop deep to get the ball right now.

You complained about Mikel not playing enough key passes. My reply was that a) it is not his job and b ) the passes Mikel plays are just important as key passes because without them we would not have possession for the front four to play key passes.

Just to illustrate on whose job it is to play key passes, Oriol who is supposedly better than Mikel and more 'creative' has an average of 0.2 key passes per game. So he only plays one "decent" pass every 5 matches?! http://www.whoscored.com/Players/90780/Show/Oriol-Romeu

[Muzchap 8,966]

Where did I say you said that? I was making a comparison between Mikel not playing key passes and Cole not scoring, the common aspect of the two phrases being "it's not their job".

Agree, but what does that have to do with his lack of key passes that we were discussing?

Again that is besides our discussion. I really don't want to get into why at least one of the forwards should drop deep to get the ball right now.

You complained about Mikel not playing enough key passes. My reply was that a) it is not his job and b ) the passes Mikel plays are just important as key passes because without them we would not have possession for the front four to play key passes.

Just to illustrate on whose job it is to play key passes, Oriol who is supposedly better than Mikel and more 'creative' has an average of 0.2 key passes per game. So he only plays one "decent" pass every 5 matches?! http://www.whoscored.com/Players/90780/Show/Oriol-Romeu

The smiley face fucked up my A and B points and as on iPad couldn't be arsed to fix...

Mikel is an 'outlet' he should be playing through to the top 4 players...

Romeu has had zero game time in comparison, so unfair to use that stat.

IF an attacking player has to drop deep, that REDUCES our attacking threat... ?

I can't be arsed to repeat everything I said, but I'm positive a World Class DM would make us a better team...

[The only place to be 11,313]

Could we put the spotlight on how Hazard asks the ball here ? He's jogging sidesteps waiting for the ball onto his feet.

We should make a DVD out of it and show it in football schools around the world.

I can kinda forgive the loose pass, although not really.

The standing still afterwards (which I'm pretty sure I've mentioned to you before and you've brought up Hazard asking for it then too) is unforgivable.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

The smiley face fucked up my A and B points and as on iPad couldn't be arsed to fix... Mikel is an 'outlet' he should be playing through to the top 4 players...

I thought by outlet you meant a player they can always pass to and trust to keep possession under pressure which btw Mikel is the best in the league, along with Toure, at.

Mikel should pass to the top for but with out risking loosing possession. A pass is played by two player: the passer needs to spot the pass and the receiver needs to create the space for the pass. When the front four are between 7-8 players Mikel can't find them without a huge chance of wasting possession so he gives the ball back.

Romeu has had zero game time in comparison, so unfair to use that stat.

Fine scrap that. Tiote who is apparently "BOSS" and the popular choice for replacement of Mikel and has 0.3 key passes per game in the PL.

IF an attacking player has to drop deep, that REDUCES our attacking threat... ?

Not necessarily. If he attracts a defender or two with him he can create space for others. And even if it does reduce our attacking threat, by keeping possession it reduces the opponents' attacking threat much more.

[Muzchap 8,966]

I thought by outlet you meant a player they can always pass to and trust to keep possession under pressure which btw Mikel is the best in the league, along with Toure, at.

Mikel should pass to the top for but with out risking loosing possession. A pass is played by two player: the passer needs to spot the pass and the receiver needs to create the space for the pass. When the front four are between 7-8 players Mikel can't find them without a huge chance of wasting possession so he gives the ball back.

Fine scrap that. Tiote who is apparently "BOSS" and the popular choice for replacement of Mikel and has 0.3 key passes per game in the PL.

Not necessarily. If he attracts a defender or two with him he can create space for others. And even if it does reduce our attacking threat, by keeping possession it reduces the opponents' attacking threat much more.

Cool

I'm not a Tiote fan btw...

I'm more Busquets...

I think Mikel + attacking quarter + Ramires need to work harder in training to create space, if he then plays them in, I will be happy.

If he doesn't #angry

He has improved massively over last season, but still think we need a 'vision' passer to play alongside him... Or replace him, depending on above

[The only place to be 11,313]

I already explained how it wasn't at all a mistake from him in the recent pages. No need to recall common sense again and again.

Weird that he felt compelled to apologise for it - you should've told him it was a mistake at all. Clearly you knew more about it than he did (that isn't sarcasm either - I genuinely think that most posters on this forum have better tactical sense than Mikel).

The funny thing is that I think you and I agree on what Mikel should do in the team - we just differ on his effectiveness at it and I have strong reservations about his character to play in such a demanding role on the pitch.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You raised some fair points, I expect more from Mikel in that current role and I genuinly think it's a matter of confidence rather than ability to play that odd pass.

I just can't stand "he's shit" "he's unable to do so" "he's useless"

Basically he lost the ball, in the storm he felt the need to apologize. I don't think that was a good reaction, nor Robbie's press conf "we know he made a mistake, let's move on" considering that wasn't a genuine mistake, and even less only Mikel's mistake

I don't think he's shit or useless. I think he's actually done well considering it's not a position he came to until his 20s, but it's one of the toughest positions on a pitch to master and players will often revert to what is natural and not what they've learnt, especially in pressure situations. He may become better over time, but we are talking about a player with well over 200 first-team appearances now.

Say we had a Busquets who could play in a DM role similar to the one he plays at Barca. I think Mikel would be a decent player alongside him but with less of the defensive responsibilities, kinda like the role Ramires plays. In fact I think he could be something special there as he could indulge his natural attacking instincts a bit more. But I simply think that the more defensive role we ask him to play is too much for him. He certainly has his good moments but that position is all about consistency, reliability and alertness and they are not the words I think of when I think of Mikel.

[Blue Armour 4,439]

You haven't even spotted the sarcasm... You must be so nervous

Nonsense for nonsense. You mean Mikel passes backwards most of the time, figures shows it's false. So I decide to do like you, deny facts and figures with my own opinion

I just have one question Seb..You say that the forward players are sometimes not in good positions to receive the ball so Mikel can't make the pass...

I agree with that, but why does he have to remain static? If he actually moved with the ball to draw some of the opposition away from their marked targets, his targets could become free for the pass...

[Kojo 4,676]

You haven't even spotted the sarcasm... You must be so nervous

Nonsense for nonsense. You mean Mikel passes backwards most of the time, figures shows it's false. So I decide to do like you, deny facts and figures with my own opinion

How about this, your big posts aren't 98 percent bull shite, and you don't have people thinking your some big scout, when you're not some fool who has been proved wrong dozens of times and posted nonsense analysts.

Oh shit sarcasm, oh and watch out if you didn't get it at first, of course you're just nervous aren't you, because i forgot you must be nervous when you don't notice dodgy french sarcasm.

[zolayes 14,489]

How about this, your big posts aren't 98 percent bull shite, and you don't have people thinking your some big scout, when you're not some fool who has been proved wrong dozens of times and posted nonsense analysts.

Oh shit sarcasm, oh and watch out if you didn't get it at first, of course you're just nervous aren't you, because i forgot you must be nervous when you don't notice dodgy french sarcasm.