Joe Cole: He's Not That Good.

[.Cee 50]

Shhhhhhh keep it down - City'll want him.

He hasn't sign a new contract, has he? We better sell him now so we can get as much as possible!

[.Cee 50]

Not true. What Jose expected, and demanded of Joe was that he show some discipline - such as tackling back after he'd lost the ball, and showing some judgement in when to go for it, and when to pass to a team mate instead. That it wasn't all about tricks and flicks. And it made Joe a much, much better player - as is evidenced by his form and effect during Jose's second season (coincidentally, Joe's best in a Chelsea shirt).

What Avram did, was to let Joe do what he liked, and forget about the discipline, and Joe's form and contribution to the team was poorer for it. He went back to being inconsistent - not good for the team, and not good for Joe. Forget the POTY voting - that was only a popularity vote, and no one's ever denied that Joe is popular (with good reason).

Well it shouldn't because most of the time Joe skates by with little, if any, criticism directed at him, whereas players like Drogba and Lampard cop plenty if their form even drops below 'perfect'. And really, is anyone here 'jumping all over' Joe? Don't think so.

I don't think that anyone questions Joe's commitment, or loyalty. And I'd imagine that most would acknowledge that yes, he is our most-talented forward (in terms of his creativity). He's also undeniably likable. What has been questioned about Joe is his consistency, and those (many) games where he indulges himself with mindless step-overs and tricks that lead to nothing - to the detriment of the team effort. There is an element of show-pony in Joe that needs to be harnessed for him to fulfill his potential. Mourinho managed to do it, but Grant failed. I hope that Scolari manages to put some of that back into Joe's game.

Of course. Is anyone saying that they don't? And when it comes off, it's great. But equally there are a lot of times when it comes to nothing because Joe takes on one-too-many defenders, tries one-too-many step-overs, and/or fails to see a better-placed team mate - and the opportunity goes begging.

Yes, he does. Wouldn't you like to see 'crucial' element of Joe's game deliver more end-product, more often? I would, but too often he flatters to deceive.

It certainly would be - but who's doing that? You say also that Joe isn't above criticism, but judging from many of the responses here, it seems that many think that he should be. I think the criticism of Joe is mild by comparison to other Chelsea players, and yet some seem to believe that even that's tantamount to heresy.

I can only guess that you must have missed them all.......

When you've stopped rolling your eyes, answer this: Do you think that what Joe did against Andorra, has any bearing at all on what's being discussed here?

Edited September 7, 2008 by .Biru

[EskWeston 696]

Joe had a good season last year. A bit up and down with the consistancy but overall i think he had a pretty good season. Faded a bit towards the end though, which may be understandable considering he played more games than anyone else.

He has had a poor start to this season though (other than in an England shirt) but this could be because he is the sort of player who builds gradually into a season. He is still a fantastic player but i think he needs to pick it up a little this season.

Saying all that he is still the best winger we have!

[misschief 24]

It'd probably help if he was given 90 minutes consistently.

[Ollie 4,400]

Well i still dont believe hes a winger. He should play in a central midfield possition or just off the striker(s). He doesnt have the pace to be a consistant winger even tho i do believe he was our best player last season as no1 really stood out. He showed the most desire and his mid season form was especially good. If he's being well contained in a match tho, he doesnt seem to have the answers or a change of idea.

[.Cee 50]

He hasn't sign a new contract, has he? We better sell him now so we can get as much as possible!

Oh, and it's a joke.

[misschief 24]

I totally don't get all this, what more do people want from Joe Cole? Are Chelsea really so brainwashed by the dull, boring, defensive shit we've endured so long that the minute a player breaks from that mould and tries to add a bit of creativity, he's knocked down?

So he's not perfect every game, he wanders a bit, he does the odd step-over that doesnt come off, so what? The fact is, Joe Cole puts 110% into every game he plays whether for club or country. He's been asked questions by every manager he's ever had and his response has always been positive. As far as Im concerned, if Chelsea had more players like Cole, with the same level of grit and determination - not to mention committment - we'd be a lot more potent than we are right now.

On the England front, the fact that Capello spent 45 minutes screaming at both Rooney and Cole (the two most animated players on the pitch) for 'not doing as they were told' just defied belief. If they had listened to that twat, the chances are it couldve ended up with an even smaller goal margin than it did.

[.Cee 50]

I totally don't get all this, what more do people want from Joe Cole? Are Chelsea really so brainwashed by the dull, boring, defensive shit we've endured so long that the minute a player breaks from that mould and tries to add a bit of creativity, he's knocked down?

So he's not perfect every game, he wanders a bit, he does the odd step-over that doesnt come off, so what? The fact is, Joe Cole puts 110% into every game he plays whether for club or country. He's been asked questions by every manager he's ever had and his response has always been positive. As far as Im concerned, if Chelsea had more players like Cole, with the same level of grit and determination - not to mention committment - we'd be a lot more potent than we are right now.

On the England front, the fact that Capello spent 45 minutes screaming at both Rooney and Cole (the two most animated players on the pitch) for 'not doing as they were told' just defied belief. If they had listened to that twat, the chances are it couldve ended up with an even smaller goal margin than it did.

Yeah, because he and Rooney were busy not supporting Heskey and were far too deep, which was why Capello the twat (sarcasm) was screaming at them both to go further inside the opponent's half and support Heskey.

[misschief 24]

Yeah, because he and Rooney were busy not supporting Heskey and were far too deep, which was why Capello the twat (sarcasm) was screaming at them both to go further inside the opponent's half and support Heskey.

Neither of them looked too deep when the goals went in so they were obviously doing something right. The fact is he asked Cole to 'get out there and create something' Cole did exactly that and still it wasnt good enough. Capello would do better to focus his attention on the players out there who look like they couldnt give a toss. Strangely enough, I didnt see him screaming at them though.

[.Cee 50]

Neither of them looked too deep when the goals went in so they were obviously doing something right. The fact is he asked Cole to 'get out there and create something' Cole did exactly that and still it wasnt good enough. Capello would do better to focus his attention on the players out there who look like they couldnt give a toss. Strangely enough, I didnt see him screaming at them though.

Yeah, but what about after the goals went in? A 2 goals margin might not be enough against a stronger team if the attackers like Rooney and Joey drop deep instead of keep on attacking...

[misschief 24]

Yeah, but what about after the goals went in? A 2 goals margin might not be enough against a stronger team if the attackers like Rooney and Joey drop deep instead of keep on attacking...

But a 2 goal margin was clearly enough in this particular game. Who's to say Rooney and Cole would play the same game against a stronger team? Neither of them are naive, theyre both experienced players in Europe and internationally. I just don't think that knocking them down when they were a lot better than most of the players out there is the way to get the best out of them.

That sort of approach clearly hasnt worked for Lampard as his deteriorating performances have showed.

[.Cee 50]

But a 2 goal margin was clearly enough in this particular game. Who's to say Rooney and Cole would play the same game against a stronger team? Neither of them are naive, theyre both experienced players in Europe and internationally. I just don't think that knocking them down when they were a lot better than most of the players out there is the way to get the best out of them.

That sort of approach clearly hasnt worked for Lampard as his deteriorating performances have showed.

Who's to say they won't play the same way against a stronger team? This is about future discipline, too. If Joey can become a better player with Capello being strict with him, like Jose was, then he should listen to him.

Lampard and Joey are 2 different players, what doesn't work for him might not be the same for Joey.

[Elliott 7]

But a 2 goal margin was clearly enough in this particular game. Who's to say Rooney and Cole would play the same game against a stronger team? Neither of them are naive, theyre both experienced players in Europe and internationally. I just don't think that knocking them down when they were a lot better than most of the players out there is the way to get the best out of them.

That sort of approach clearly hasnt worked for Lampard as his deteriorating performances have showed.

So you were happy with a 2-0 win over Andorra then?

[.Cee 50]

I totally don't get all this, what more do people want from Joe Cole? Are Chelsea really so brainwashed by the dull, boring, defensive shit we've endured so long that the minute a player breaks from that mould and tries to add a bit of creativity, he's knocked down?

So he's not perfect every game, he wanders a bit, he does the odd step-over that doesnt come off, so what? The fact is, Joe Cole puts 110% into every game he plays whether for club or country. He's been asked questions by every manager he's ever had and his response has always been positive. As far as Im concerned, if Chelsea had more players like Cole, with the same level of grit and determination - not to mention committment - we'd be a lot more potent than we are right now.

This quote should answer that:

Not true. What Jose expected, and demanded of Joe was that he show some discipline - such as tackling back after he'd lost the ball, and showing some judgement in when to go for it, and when to pass to a team mate instead. That it wasn't all about tricks and flicks. And it made Joe a much, much better player - as is evidenced by his form and effect during Jose's second season (coincidentally, Joe's best in a Chelsea shirt).

What Avram did, was to let Joe do what he liked, and forget about the discipline, and Joe's form and contribution to the team was poorer for it. He went back to being inconsistent - not good for the team, and not good for Joe. Forget the POTY voting - that was only a popularity vote, and no one's ever denied that Joe is popular (with good reason).

Well it shouldn't because most of the time Joe skates by with little, if any, criticism directed at him, whereas players like Drogba and Lampard cop plenty if their form even drops below 'perfect'. And really, is anyone here 'jumping all over' Joe? Don't think so.

I don't think that anyone questions Joe's commitment, or loyalty. And I'd imagine that most would acknowledge that yes, he is our most-talented forward (in terms of his creativity). He's also undeniably likable. What has been questioned about Joe is his consistency, and those (many) games where he indulges himself with mindless step-overs and tricks that lead to nothing - to the detriment of the team effort. There is an element of show-pony in Joe that needs to be harnessed for him to fulfill his potential. Mourinho managed to do it, but Grant failed. I hope that Scolari manages to put some of that back into Joe's game.

Of course. Is anyone saying that they don't? And when it comes off, it's great. But equally there are a lot of times when it comes to nothing because Joe takes on one-too-many defenders, tries one-too-many step-overs, and/or fails to see a better-placed team mate - and the opportunity goes begging.

Yes, he does. Wouldn't you like to see 'crucial' element of Joe's game deliver more end-product, more often? I would, but too often he flatters to deceive.

It certainly would be - but who's doing that? You say also that Joe isn't above criticism, but judging from many of the responses here, it seems that many think that he should be. I think the criticism of Joe is mild by comparison to other Chelsea players, and yet some seem to believe that even that's tantamount to heresy.

I can only guess that you must have missed them all.......

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

Dont understand the sudden attack on Cole. What, should we be getting rid ?

With the injuries and depleted squad, unless a player is absolute pony, they need support and encouragement. Yes he has the odd shit game , as do all the squad, but he is one of the most creative players at SW6

[.Cee 50]

Dont understand the sudden attack on Cole. What, should we be getting rid ?

With the injuries and depleted squad, unless a player is absolute pony, they need support and encouragement. Yes he has the odd shit game , as do all the squad, but he is one of the most creative players at SW6

This is very mild compared to the criticism Drogba and some others get so I wouldn't call it an attack. And it's constructive, unlike many of the slagging DD gets.

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

This is very mild compared to the criticism Drogba and some others get so I wouldn't call it an attack. And it's constructive, unlike many of the slagging DD gets.

Thats true B. Nothing wrong with a bit of incisive analysis. What I've noticed is that a player gets stick from a certain quarter, then it spreads like wildfire, and the next thing you have a medieaval horde with burning torches wanting to crucify some player without any individual thought....

[.Cee 50]

Thats true B. Nothing wrong with a bit of incisive analysis. What I've noticed is that a player gets stick from a certain quarter, then it spreads like wildfire, and the next thing you have a medieaval horde with burning torches wanting to crucify some player without any individual thought....

Oh, well, hopefully it won't happen...