Did Hitler go to hell or to heaven ?

[Unionjack 7,531]

7 minutes ago, 11Drogba said:

Blaming one person is too simplistic. If Adolf had died early when he was a kid there would be someone else imo. People full of extraordinary hate brought Hitler to power. If there was no Hitler they would find someone else to lead them.

We will never know

But until a group has a leader then nothing happens.

Had a very handy Dr tho. AndI'd be interested to know the results of some of the experiments he did. Like the ones he did using the mind..Or his search for the holy grail to use its supposed powers.

Apart from being sadosic scum I bet he was an intersting bloke

[11Drogba 2,000]

Just now, Unionjack said:

But until a group has a leader then nothing happens.

The easiest groups to lead are the hateful people. Just blame the minorities and immigrants they will do the rest. This is why these what if Hitler died when he was child questions are stupid.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,775]

3 hours ago, Unionjack said:

Not delusional. He was invented by the first tribal leaders/shamen to keep the tribes under their control. Make peeps scared to break the tribal laws.

Gods undoubtedly yes, but I'm talking about heaven and hell which were embellishments on the basic superstitions. In Judeo/Christian writings hell isn't invented until the new testament. The whole lot is made up but it's believing which is delusional.

[Unionjack 7,531]

2 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Gods undoubtedly yes, but I'm talking about heaven and hell which were embellishments on the basic superstitions. In Judeo/Christian writings hell isn't invented until the new testament. The whole lot is made up but it's believing which is delusional.

Ah OK agree.

But i suppose it came as a natural negative alternative to heaven. If one is good, they contribute to the tribe and follow our rules you will be awarded a place in the afterlife with your dead relatives etc But you would suppose they had the alternative that if you disobey then all the nasty things await you down below. I wonder tho why it wasn't 'invented' for such a long time? i suppose theres a version of hell in all major religeons.

Like Chelsea fans right now in our own little hell.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,775]

On ‎24‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 6:21 PM, Leif said:

Not 1 painter alive produces work anything near as impressive or technically astute as Hitler's pieces. Which shows how low painting has sunk, considering these aren't that incredible. 

Says who? A very subjective matter.

I know nothing about the merits of one piece over another, but everything I've read, including authenticated observations about Hitler's output as an art student, says he was a limited technician with little talent. I get that you're basically implying that the current crop of working artists are even less talented but, for your opinion to be widely shared, a lot more people would have to be prepared to say nice things about Hitler than I think could ever be the case.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,775]

2 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

Ah OK agree.

But i suppose it came as a natural negative alternative to heaven. If one is good, they contribute to the tribe and follow our rules you will be awarded a place in the afterlife with your dead relatives etc But you would suppose they had the alternative that if you disobey then all the nasty things await you down below. I wonder tho why it wasn't 'invented' for such a long time? i suppose theres a version of hell in all major religeons.

Like Chelsea fans right now in our own little hell.

Agreed, it's a necessary part of the control system.

[Fernando 6,376]

7 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

You are never going to know.

Whether Hitler died in the bunker as I accept, (Hugh Trevor Roper’s biography and Airey Neeve’s book on his interviews with bunker survivors to prepare evidence for Nuremberg are particularly convincing on this), or he died elsewhere at a later date, the bastard is dead now. He is not in heaven, and nor is he in hell, since neither place exists. They each are the made up imaginings of delusional people. 

It's not made up, it's real. 

And not just me saying it but many people who have near death experience have witnessed this. 

Just like this once profess atheist stated in this video:

 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,775]

21 hours ago, Fernando said:

It's not made up, it's real. 

You and I are never going to agree about this.

21 hours ago, Fernando said:

And not just me saying it but many people who have near death experience have witnessed this. 

Claptrap.

21 hours ago, Fernando said:

Just like this once profess atheist stated in this video:

 

Don't care. Anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all. Show me something real to support your fairy tales and I'll change my mind about them but no such thing has turned up over the last 2,000 years so why should it now? 

[Unionjack 7,531]

44 minutes ago, Fernando said:

**/It's not made up, it's real. 

And not just me saying it but many people who have near death experience have witnessed this. 

Just like this once profess atheist stated in this video:

/

'They' say that feeling of NDE is the stored memory of when we are being born.Our brains are a complicated thing. Like when peeps say they were abducted my aliiens whlle asleep and you can't do anything tostop them. Its a form of sleep paralysis.

[Fernando 6,376]

1 hour ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

You and I are never going to agree about this.

Claptrap.

Don't care. Anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all. Show me something real to support your fairy tales and I'll change my mind about them but no such thing has turned up over the last 2,0000 years so why should it now? 

Well one thing he stated is true, it's very easy to be an atheist and don't need god when everything is good. 

But it's very difficult to be an atheist at your death bed. 

I hope you remember that, god will always give you another chance even till the last second of your life to get saved. Because once your gone, there is no coming back. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,775]

On ‎01‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 2:10 PM, Fernando said:

Well one thing he stated is true, it's very easy to be an atheist and don't need god when everything is good. 

I'm afraid I didn't watch it. As evidence anecdotes are without value.

On ‎01‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 2:10 PM, Fernando said:

But it's very difficult to be an atheist at your death bed.

This is a favourite meme of theists. Even if it were true what would it prove about the validity of the fairy tale? If you're drowning and a straw bobs by, you will grab it; to no avail.

On ‎01‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 2:10 PM, Fernando said:

I hope you remember that, god will always give you another chance even till the last second of your life to get saved. Because once your gone, there is no coming back. 

Another favoured piece of theistic doublethink. Atheists, they say, have no moral grounding, no objective reason for being good. If you have no faith in a god, they state, then why not spend your life in an hedonistic way, thinking only of your own interests and no one else's. Theists however, live their lives secure in the knowledge that they can get up to any kind of messed up crazy, and as much of it as they like, as long as they manage to get in their repentance before the end, and manage to really, really, really mean it. They know this because the God they've created doesn't actually give a fig about whether people are good fellow travellers in this world. All he cares about is whether they are willing to worship him endlessly, to love him unconditionally, even when he orders them to murder babies in their beds, and believe in him faithfully without a single shred of evidence for doing so.

The upshot of this crazy way of thinking? Ghengis Khan waltzes into heaven if he is prepared to do all of the above. Ricky Gervais, who actually did something practical to aid hurricane victims, instead of just boasting that he'd prayed for them, is condemned to burn for all eternity because he's seen no evidence which persuades him about the existence of any God. And theists actually think the world would be a better place if more of us thought like they do? Well would it? All around the world theists are over represented in jails, that is there are more of them in prison than there should be by their proportion of the society as a whole, and atheists are under represented because there are fewer of them in jail than there should be given the number of them in the society. (According to a 2015 study atheists made up just one tenth of one percent of the federal prison population in the US.) 

If you look at nations as a whole, the countries regularly rated the best places to live; those with strong, green economies, good health care free at the point of use, good social welfare, great education systems and lowest crime rates, are also the countries with the highest proportion of atheists. With the exception of China, countries with the highest atheist populations also rank at the top in terms of personal liberties. None of this will stop theists claiming that you can't be good without God. They're never going to let mere demonstrable facts interrupt their dogmas.

 

[Fernando 6,376]

10 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I'm afraid I didn't watch it. As evidence anecdotes are without value.

This is a favourite meme of theists. Even if it were true what would it prove about the validity of the fairy tale? If you're drowning and a straw bobs by, you will grab it; to no avail.

Another favoured piece of theistic doublethink. Atheists, they say, have no moral grounding, no objective reason for being good. If you have no faith in a god, they state, then why not spend your life in an hedonistic way, thinking only of your own interests and no one else's. Theists however, live their lives secure in the knowledge that they can get up to any kind of messed up crazy, and as much of it as they like, as long as they manage to get in their repentance before the end, and manage to really, really, really mean it. They know this because the God they've created doesn't actually give a fig about whether people are good fellow travellers in this world. All he cares about is whether they are willing to worship him endlessly, to love him unconditionally, even when he orders them to murder babies in their beds, and believe in him faithfully without a single shred of evidence for doing so.

The upshot of this crazy way of thinking? Ghengis Khan waltzes into heaven if he is prepared to do all of the above. Ricky Gervais, who only sent money to the aid of hurricane victims instead of merely praying for them is condemned to burn for all eternity because he's seen no evidence which persuades about the existence of God. And theists actually think the world would be a better place if more of us thought like they do? Well would it? All around the world theists are over represented in jails, that is there are more of them in prison than there should be by their proportion of the society as a whole, and atheists are under represented because there are fewer of them in jail than there should be given the number of them in the society.

If you look at nations as a whole, the countries regularly rated the best places to live with strong economies, green economies, best health care and lowest crime rates, are also the countries with the highest proportion of atheists. With the exception of China, countries with the highest atheist populations also rank at the top in terms of personal liberties. None of this will stop theists claiming that you can't be good without God. They're never going to let mere demonstrable facts interrupt their dogmas.

 

You know what that is?

It's called grace and mercy. 

Someone that committed a lifetime of sin, of crimes and all that stuff that at the end of his deathbed he truly repent, he will be forgiving. 

But this is not the case with everyone. Some will not have that chance and death comes unexpected. So it's not a thing you can grasp on. And you will not live in peace, because you don't know that when you go to sleep if you will wake up. And if your living a life of sin, you won't enter heaven. So it's not a patent that everyone will have a final chance at their deathbed. 

 

[lucio 5,395]

On 6/1/2018 at 5:32 AM, OhForAGreavsie said:

You are never going to know.

Whether Hitler died in the bunker as I accept, (Hugh Trevor Roper’s biography and Airey Neeve’s book on his interviews with bunker survivors to prepare evidence for Nuremberg are particularly convincing on this), or he died elsewhere at a later date, the bastard is dead now. He is not in heaven, and nor is he in hell, since neither place exists. They each are the made up imaginings of delusional people. 

atheist governments in the 20th century killed far more people than all religions combined, throughout human history

[OhForAGreavsie 5,775]

7 hours ago, lucio said:

atheist governments in the 20th century killed far more people than all religions combined, throughout human history

And there it is, theists second favourite misbelief. No doubt you've heard this said so often that it has become the truth for you, but I'm afraid that it simply is not so.

1. People arguing this are doing their counting very selectively. For example, they lump all atheist governments on one side of the equation, while not also including religious governments on the other. If you are counting atheistic governments on one side then you must also count religious governments on the other. That said, even if you continue to calculate the figures on an inaccurate basis, religion still 'wins' this murderous race. The fact that theists like to lie to each other about this, a lot, does not make their claim true.

2. In any case the killings done by religions, as opposed to governments, were, and are, done in the name of religion; i.e. because of religion. The murders carried out on the orders of Stalin and Pol Pot were nothing to do with atheism. Neither of these 'general secretaries' committed their crimes because they were attempting to convert people to atheism. Instead their butchery was a means of establishing and maintaining political control through terror. They didn't kill theists and spare atheists. Anyone, atheists included, who was opposed to their regime, deemed dangerous to the continued rule of the leader, or just were useful as slave labour was fair game to be worked to death, starved or killed outright. Contrast that with religious murders which continue to this day where people kill each other not only for belonging to the 'wrong' religion, but even for belonging to the wrong 'flavour' of the 'right' religion.

3. No doubt you, like most who trot out this nonsense, are counting the national socialists as atheists. Fail. Huge fail.

I repeat from an earlier comment, societies with the highest density of atheists are the most peaceful, law abiding, egalitarian and happiest* in the world.

 

*I didn't set the criteria, I'm just reporting the findings.

[lucio 5,395]

4 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

And there it is, theists second favourite misbelief. No doubt you've heard this said so often that it has become the truth for you, but I'm afraid that it simply is not so.

1. People arguing this are doing their counting very selectively. For example, they lump all atheist governments on one side of the equation, while not also including religious governments on the other. If you are counting atheistic governments on one side then you must also count religious governments on the other. That said, even if you continue to calculate the figures on an inaccurate basis, religion still 'wins' this murderous race. The fact that theists like to lie to each other about this, a lot, does not make their claim true.

2. In any case the killings done by religions, as opposed to governments, were, and are, done in the name of religion; i.e. because of religion. The murders carried out on the orders of Stalin and Pol Pot were nothing to do with atheism. Neither of these 'general secretaries' committed their crimes because they were attempting to convert people to atheism. Instead their butchery was a means of establishing and maintaining political control through terror. They didn't kill theists and spare atheists. Anyone, atheists included, who was opposed to their regime, deemed dangerous to the continued rule of the leader, or just were useful as slave labour was fair game to be worked to death, starved or killed outright. Contrast that with religious murders which continue to this day where people kill each other not only for belonging to the 'wrong' religion, but even for belonging to the wrong 'flavour' of the 'right' religion.

3. No doubt you, like most who trot out this nonsense, are counting the national socialists as atheists. Fail. Huge fail.

I repeat from an earlier comment, societies with the highest density of atheists are the most peaceful, law abiding, egalitarian and happiest* in the world.

 

*I didn't set the criteria, I'm just reporting the findings.

That wasn't really my point. I wanted to say that non secular ideologies place just as much cheapness on human life than religious ones. Change it to murders to advance marxism/communism compared to murders to advance religon.

Some atheist countries might be happier sure. But not all , Estonia is one of the least religous countries in the world, yet has one of europes worst crime rates (probably not on account of its atheism

I don't really consider Nazi Germany to be atheist, but I wouldn't say it belonged to any one religon. Hitler had a Catholic upbringing, but Catholics were a major victim of the holocaust, so we could not reasonably suggest that Hitler retained Catholic convictions by this point. He tried to use the church in Germany - but he was himself very anti-christian according to the writings of some of his leading men.

There are studies which suggest atheists have a higher suicide rate and higher suicidal tendencies amongst depressed patients.

[Weckerz 3,781]

39 minutes ago, lucio said:

I don't really consider Nazi Germany to be atheist, but I wouldn't say it belonged to any one religon. Hitler had a Catholic upbringing, but Catholics were a major victim of the holocaust, so we could not reasonably suggest that Hitler retained Catholic convictions by this point. He tried to use the church in Germany - but he was himself very anti-christian according to the writings of some of his leading men.

The Nazi's were very much a Catholic movement, they wore the words 'got mitt uns' (god is with us) on their uniforms(even though some of their elite worshipped Pagan gods for some reason). On Hitler's birthday prayers were said throughout Germany on the orders of the Vatican.

Historically, fascism is just another name for the political activities of the Catholic right wing. Franco's Spain, Salazar's Portugal, Mussolini' Italy, Hungary, Croatia, Slovakia.. the list goes on.

[lucio 5,395]

9 minutes ago, Weckerz said:

The Nazi's were very much a Catholic movement, they wore the words 'got mitt uns' (god is with us) on their uniforms(even though some of their elite worshipped Pagan gods for some reason). On Hitler's birthday prayers were said throughout Germany on the orders of the Vatican.

Historically, fascism is just another name for the political activities of the Catholic right wing. Franco's Spain, Salazar's Portugal, Mussolini' Italy, Hungary, Croatia, Slovakia.. the list goes on.

got mitt uns is a protestant saying from the Prussian state (staunch protestants). It was used since the 1700s in German Imperial uniforms, ww2 uniforms ect - its just a continuation of the tradition - I don't see what is Catholic about it.

The birthday prayers source comes from Cornwell's Hitler's Pope book - which is considered to be widely inaccurate

[manpe 10,855]

13 hours ago, lucio said:

But not all , Estonia is one of the least religous countries in the world, yet has one of europes worst crime rates (probably not on account of its atheism

That's not all! We're also among the leading countries in suicides, HIV and alcohol consumption. Representin'