Chelsea Legend 11 4,062 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 23 hours ago, Mufassir08 said: Off the top of my mind Fabinho, Naby Keita, Seri, Bonaventura, Amadou Diawara, Milinkovic-Savic, Paredes, Strootman all would make better partners for Kante than Baka. Didn't even name Nainggo or Verratti who I know are impossible to get hahahaha I seriously DOUBT you've watched any of these guys play extensively, if you have you need to get outside and get a life. Look at the club's track record when it comes to spotting talent... I have no doubt they know what we need and will bring it to the club. Edit: and most of the names you've mentioned here don't even play the same role in their team as Bakayoko has for Monaco. To the best of my knowledge Bakayoko is our alternative to Matic in our system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea Legend 11 4,062 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 27 minutes ago, Rekin said: I have been following the talk regarding Baka vs Fabinho for a while, and while Fabinho generates more praise from Monaco fans, there are more than a few who find Bakayoko to be the better player. So let me get this straight, you have watched all eight midfielders you mentioned earlier plus Bakayoko to such an extent that you can comfortably say that they are a better fit for our team? In terms of the attributes you mentioned, you stated that all the players you mentioned have better passing ability, control, technique and awareness than Bakayoko. That is a very, very bold claim. It is also completely wrong statistically. Passing ability: While Bakayoko provides the lowest amount of key passes, he has one of the highest pass success percentages of all the ones you mentioned, while providing a comparable amount of total passes per game to the others. Still, I would be inclined to agree that passing is his weakes area of the game. He keeps it simple, and does it well. Control: Hard to know exactly what you mean by control, but WhoScored measures "bad control per game" which seems like a fair statistic. Bakayoko is one of the best players of the ones you mentioned in this regard. The only one with a comparable amount of games better than him is Fabinho. Paredes and Diawara also have better numbers, but they have played a lot less than him, making their numbers easier to maintain at a good level. Technique: Again, hard to know what you mean by this exactly, and the difference between this and dribbling for example. You simply leave this too undefined to let statistics decide whether you are right or not. I can just as well say that Baka has better technique than most of the players you mentioned and be just as right, as it is presented as a subjective attribute (I actually dont believe Baka is one of the best, but he is not bad for sure in this regard). Awareness: Dribbled past per game and dispossessed seems like somewhat fair statistics for this area. In terms of the first statistic, Baka is the second best (first if you exclude Diawara, as he has played almost a third of Baka's playtime). For the second one, Baka is in the middle, higher if cou exclude Paredes and Diawara. Dribbling: Bakayoko has the third highest amount of successful dribbles per game. To summarize, your statement was completely wrong. You can say "I trust my eyes" or "some things arent shown in the numbers", but whereas you and I cling to subjectivity, the numbers are the closest to a fair representation that we can get. They are not perfect as they fail to show the level of the opponents, the starting position, the quality of the team etc, but it sure as hell beats "I think xyz". Bakayoko is far more well-rounded than he gets credit for. If Conte wants Baka so bad (and considering that we were linked to him last year already) there is clearly a spot for Baka in the team. I fail to see how buying a player that Conte doesnt want or see as a fit instead of one he wants is going to be positive in our hunt for trophies. Besides, it is a real possibility that there were targets the club/Conte wanted more, but were either priced out off, or where the player did not wish to leave. We know so little about what is happening behind the scenes, and yet people are comfortable judging the board on their dealings. You can however have a main gameplan, which you try to perfect to the fullest extent. The players we have been targeting suggests that we both want to become even better at what we have excelled at this season, while also opening the possiblity for formation switches. If we want a creative CM we already have one in Fabregas. Stole my thunder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El P. 1,354 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Just watched some of "Bakayoko VS some_team" videos on YouTube. His strengths: Ball control (by that I mean - receiving the ball, his first and second touch), dribbling, running with the ball in general. Really nice, agile and silk movement for a guy that size. Also, he is strong. Seems decent in the air too. Is a monster defensively. Weaknesses: I would say, first of all, passing. I mean, maybe in team with Modrić, Kroos, or I don't know, that wouldn't be problem, those simple, defender-like passes. But in our team, best passer is Luiz (assuming Cesc is not playing), and he will play next to Kante who does passes just like him - rarely misplaces them, but those are all simple passes, never actually creating anything special. And, his end product - he will need to learn how to score some goals, either head them in, shoot from distance etc, he will need to provide us in that area too (he scored 3 goals in the whole season, and that is really odd assuming Monaco scored 100+ goals last season). All in all, would be a decent signing, nothing special but decent, and I expect him to improve. He will balance out Kante's lack of ball control/shielding ability, probably will be upgrade on Matić already, he is faster and more agile than him, but will need to improve some other areas to really become integral in out first XI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLyon 9,359 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I think its not as easy to just point out that we need a new midfielder and then pick one of the "popular" group of midfielders from recent season. Throwing names just because they are midfielders is no go in real world. Take example at Fabinho. Everyone seems to be loving idea of having him next to Kante. Why not? He is midfielder and we need a midfielder right? Well if you look closely we have open spot on LEFT side of midfiled, Kante being on right. Fabinho played whole season on RIGHT side, never mind he played as RB before. Despite its easy as pie in Fifa to play Fabinho there, in real football, this transition of Fabinho from his prefered right to left side could be quite big or maybe impossible, limiting his abilities, hindering his skill. Its a little detail, but generaly speaking, just because there are Fabinho, Milinkovic, Strootman,...out there, it doesnt mean they fit OUR spot because they are midfielders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhForAGreavsie 6,075 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 13 hours ago, the wes said: Kante and bakayoko has are midfield duo will be are Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito outta that movie twins lol Hello tw, May I ask why you prefer to use the word 'are' instead of the word 'our'? Is it a personal thing or does it perhaps reflect a local dialect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhForAGreavsie 6,075 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 11 hours ago, El P. said: Just watched some of "Bakayoko VS some_team" videos on YouTube. His strengths: Ball control (by that I mean - receiving the ball, his first and second touch), dribbling, running with the ball in general. Really nice, agile and silk movement for a guy that size. Also, he is strong. Seems decent in the air too. Is a monster defensively. Weaknesses: I would say, first of all, passing. I mean, maybe in team with Modrić, Kroos, or I don't know, that wouldn't be problem, those simple, defender-like passes. But in our team, best passer is Luiz (assuming Cesc is not playing), and he will play next to Kante who does passes just like him - rarely misplaces them, but those are all simple passes, never actually creating anything special. And, his end product - he will need to learn how to score some goals, either head them in, shoot from distance etc, he will need to provide us in that area too (he scored 3 goals in the whole season, and that is really odd assuming Monaco scored 100+ goals last season). All in all, would be a decent signing, nothing special but decent, and I expect him to improve. He will balance out Kante's lack of ball control/shielding ability, probably will be upgrade on Matić already, he is faster and more agile than him, but will need to improve some other areas to really become integral in out first XI. We don't need spectacular passing from that position. That position is all about continuity. In any case many of the most effective passes are, in themselves, very straightforward ones. I'm repeating myself here but Tottenham Dembele plays simple passes and does not score goals, yet he is the best in the Premier League at his position. His ability to retain the ball under pressure, to get turned after receiving the ball facing his own goal, to skip past a challenge or two when appropriate make him invaluable. As a package, his attributes completely outrank the odd great pass. Such a player turns defence into attack and, in so doing, makes his team more fluid going forward as well as more secure defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashimaru161 77 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 38 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said: Hello tw, May I ask why you prefer to use the word 'are' instead of the word 'our' ? Is it a personal thing or does it perhaps reflect a local dialect? He is the wes, not our beloved thewiz. Wiz would never bother with anyone not named matic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhForAGreavsie 6,075 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 minute ago, mashimaru161 said: He is the wes, not our beloved thewiz. Wiz would never bother with anyone not named matic 😀There is only one TheWiz. There is also only one 'the wes' but he is 'tw' while his capitalised forum mate is TW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the wes 7,212 Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquila 1,335 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, the wes said: Come on mate, answer the question above, im dying to know too lol. It's been buggering me for an eternity but i never asked why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El P. 1,354 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 8 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said: We don't need spectacular passing from that position. That position is all about continuity. In any case many of the most effective passes are, in themselves, very straightforward ones. I'm repeating myself here but Tottenham Dembele plays simple passes and does not score goals, yet he is the best in the Premier League at his position. His ability to retain the ball under pressure, to get turned after receiving the ball facing his own goal, to skip past a challenge or two when appropriate make him invaluable. As a package, his attributes completely outrank the odd great pass. Such a player turns defence into attack and, in so doing, makes his team more fluid going forward as well as more secure defensively. Yes, but because Dembele is really great in what he does, and they even don't need Dembele's passing - they have Eriksen. And, I think we all saw what we have when Fabregas plays alongside Kante, those great passes from the deep and those magnificent one-twos. If Baka can be THAT good, like Dembele, maybe his passes won't matter much - I agree that his playing with the ball under pressure is much more important. But I still have a feeling we miss that good-passing part of the game, here in midfield or anywhere on the field. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Baka to be like Fabregas, or anywhere near... I just think that he would misplace even some semi-simple passes, from what I saw. We don't want him to get the ball, run through the middle, and then to 'do the Costa' (ruin our counter attack) with some clumsy pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the wes 7,212 Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 58 minutes ago, Roquila said: Come on mate, answer the question above, im dying to know too lol. It's been buggering me for an eternity but i never asked why. answer to what question?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireBlue 3,277 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 2 hours ago, the wes said: For a big lad he can't half carry that ball at his feet impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manpe 10,861 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 50 minutes ago, the wes said: answer to what question?? 5 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said: Hello tw, May I ask why you prefer to use the word 'are' instead of the word 'our'? Is it a personal thing or does it perhaps reflect a local dialect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the wes 7,212 Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 19 minutes ago, BluesMadLad said: For a big lad he can't half carry that ball at his feet impressive He does indeed mate his forward runs remind me of yaya Toure but he's not in the same level has Toure yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the wes 7,212 Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 20 minutes ago, manpe said: Thanks for info me mate 👍 some lads on this forum are childish I didn't know saying (are) instead of (our) is a crime it must make OhForAGreavsie brave mocking someone who has learning difficulties like myself I think hes piss off Cause I don't rely to him nomore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhForAGreavsie 6,075 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Roquila said: Come on mate, answer the question above, im dying to know too lol. It's been buggering me for an eternity but i never asked why. You mean bugging you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireBlue 3,277 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 19 minutes ago, the wes said: He does indeed mate his forward runs remind me of yaya Toure but he's not in the same level has Toure yet If he turns out like yaya he will be an absolute bargain at 35 mill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Lamps 11,692 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 38 minutes ago, BluesMadLad said: For a big lad he can't half carry that ball at his feet impressive why does everyone make him out to be kind of the lukaku of midfielders? How on earth is 184cm/6ft big? That is like average height in urban Germany for men in their 20s. And he is not really muscular either. Decent build but how does that translate to ball carrying ability?. When you are shit on the ball you can be as big as you want you will get dispossessed every time. maybe he is able to transalte his athleticism into ball carrying ability and functional strength but that is a different story. Size for sure should not be the argument to buy him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLyon 9,359 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 50 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said: why does everyone make him out to be kind of the lukaku of midfielders? How on earth is 184cm/6ft big? That is like average height in urban Germany for men in their 20s. And he is not really muscular either. Decent build but how does that translate to ball carrying ability?. When you are shit on the ball you can be as big as you want you will get dispossessed every time. maybe he is able to transalte his athleticism into ball carrying ability and functional strength but that is a different story. Size for sure should not be the argument to buy him. Completely agree with you, tho Bakayoko is actualy closer to 188 or at least 186cm, despite official numbers, they probably havent been updated yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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