Radamel Falcao

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 27/09/2012 at 17:07, .Cee said:

All this guy needs is to hit a slump and it'll be Falcao-haters time. If we pay that much for him. So I say, stay away from us! Stay far away, for your own good.

absolute bolax.

[fAnta 107]

  On 27/09/2012 at 20:20, Las7 said:

Falcao also played next to Hulk, he played all types of games and with all types of teams - even against teams who parked the bus against Atletico and Porto whether it was in the League or the Europa League.

If Falcao fails to score in his first 9 games and than fails to score in 24 hours of football this might become an issue - what the Torres saga has taught me is that fans back "particular" players for an infinite amount of time even though they obviously are not performing the duties which they were signed for. I don't know if it's golden hair or his price tag but the amount of support that Torres has received and continues to receive and the amount of excuses I hear here and in other forums is just starting to drive me mad. No other striker has been cut as much slack as Torres in my footballing life and I've been watching football since 1994 when I was 8 years old. Drogba a Chelsea Legend deserved this type of support, yet it's given to some mercenary who isn't doing what we bought him for, he isn't doing what is expected from a World Class striker, he isn't even taking shots or getting into position where a lucky ricochet might just allow him to put the ball in the back of the net. How many times have we crossed the ball with Torres either being marked out or not even in the box? I've personally lost count. Now I know crosses isn't the thing that Torres is looking for but for a player being paid 14 million pounds per year he better be in the box trying to beat his marker to the ball.

I can imagine Falcao scoring more winners in 6 months than Torres has done in 1 and half years at Chelsea FC - Torres has ONE winner, there is no excuse for such a pathetic statistic, you would expect such a thing from a guy like Mikel not from our FIRST CHOICE striker.

Torres has had a chance at a big club and woopty do - him and Andy Carroll are the laughing stock of the Footballing World. At least Andy Carroll isn't the 7th highest paid footballer in the World and Liverpool will probably make back 50% of their investment - Torres is a footballing and financial void for this club and the sooner it's realized the better.

Are you saying Torres is creating chances for himself?

Falcao must be quite fortuned play with the best teams ever since he is scoring for Colombia(0.4 goals per match); River Plate(0.44 goals per match); Porto(0.89 goals per match) and Atletico(0.82 goals per match); without making any chances for himself.

Meanwhile Torres with his much better chance creating skills plays at far worse teams

Spain(0.31 goals per match) the poster child of under performing National Teams, all strikers struggle there so much so that their coach plays some midfielder up top to keep possession.

Atletico(0.37 goals per match) - they couldn't even win a Europa League back when Torres played there, signed jokers like Forlan; Aguero and Faclao to replace Torres but they all failed there;

Liverpool(0.57 goals per match) waited for Torres to leave before winning a trophy;

Chelsea(0.21 goals per match) we kept him on the bench instead of starting him, otherwise we would have surely dominated Barca and Bayern.

In summery after reviewing the facts I completely agree, Torres is the best striker ever - as the last 2 years clearly prove. Even with limited opportunities to score and making only 79 appearances - Torres has set the World on Fire.

We clearly don't need to sign another striker because Torres is better than Rooney; RvP; Aguero; Tevez combined.

You my friend deserve this

Falcao has service from players who were all smaller clubs than ours. now we have some really creative players and hes seems so similair still. This guys movement is fantastic the video on first page if these people watch they all see how he can create his own goals. run passed players and score bicycle kiks from impossible angles. This guy is a striker we don't pay him to assist hazard, oscar mata etc to score. It seems like hes so unconfident he just passes to them instead of shooting. I've supported him but you cant say no el tigre. him at the top of our team will be the difference for 0 points and 1 point or 1 point and 3 points.

[Tricky 301]

  On 27/09/2012 at 20:20, Las7 said:

Falcao also played next to Hulk, he played all types of games and with all types of teams - even against teams who parked the bus against Atletico and Porto whether it was in the League or the Europa League.

If Falcao fails to score in his first 9 games and than fails to score in 24 hours of football this might become an issue - what the Torres saga has taught me is that fans back "particular" players for an infinite amount of time even though they obviously are not performing the duties which they were signed for. I don't know if it's golden hair or his price tag but the amount of support that Torres has received and continues to receive and the amount of excuses I hear here and in other forums is just starting to drive me mad. No other striker has been cut as much slack as Torres in my footballing life and I've been watching football since 1994 when I was 8 years old. Drogba a Chelsea Legend deserved this type of support, yet it's given to some mercenary who isn't doing what we bought him for, he isn't doing what is expected from a World Class striker, he isn't even taking shots or getting into position where a lucky ricochet might just allow him to put the ball in the back of the net. How many times have we crossed the ball with Torres either being marked out or not even in the box? I've personally lost count. Now I know crosses isn't the thing that Torres is looking for but for a player being paid 14 million pounds per year he better be in the box trying to beat his marker to the ball.

I can imagine Falcao scoring more winners in 6 months than Torres has done in 1 and half years at Chelsea FC - Torres has ONE winner, there is no excuse for such a pathetic statistic, you would expect such a thing from a guy like Mikel not from our FIRST CHOICE striker.

Torres has had a chance at a big club and woopty do - him and Andy Carroll are the laughing stock of the Footballing World. At least Andy Carroll isn't the 7th highest paid footballer in the World and Liverpool will probably make back 50% of their investment - Torres is a footballing and financial void for this club and the sooner it's realized the better.

Are you saying Torres is creating chances for himself?

Falcao must be quite fortuned play with the best teams ever since he is scoring for Colombia(0.4 goals per match); River Plate(0.44 goals per match); Porto(0.89 goals per match) and Atletico(0.82 goals per match); without making any chances for himself.

Meanwhile Torres with his much better chance creating skills plays at far worse teams

Spain(0.31 goals per match) the poster child of under performing National Teams, all strikers struggle there so much so that their coach plays some midfielder up top to keep possession.

Atletico(0.37 goals per match) - they couldn't even win a Europa League back when Torres played there, signed jokers like Forlan; Aguero and Faclao to replace Torres but they all failed there;

Liverpool(0.57 goals per match) waited for Torres to leave before winning a trophy;

Chelsea(0.21 goals per match) we kept him on the bench instead of starting him, otherwise we would have surely dominated Barca and Bayern.

In summery after reviewing the facts I completely agree, Torres is the best striker ever - as the last 2 years clearly prove. Even with limited opportunities to score and making only 79 appearances - Torres has set the World on Fire.

We clearly don't need to sign another striker because Torres is better than Rooney; RvP; Aguero; Tevez combined.

Check out Drogbas PL history, he is not the Dogs... That some make him out to be.

[Spike 12,049]

  On 27/09/2012 at 13:19, BlueLyon said:

Dont really need to. Just watch their behaviour.

Do you also want me to go to University and achieve a PhD in Psychology so I can interview and dissect their personality just so I can prove or disprove a basless statement you made?

Faclao looks confident and Torres doesn't. That has nothing to do with mental fortitiude, buddy.

[Reddish-Blue 2,429]

Torres has done nothing this season, apart from scoring a fluke goal against Newcastle.

Torres doesn't even look threatening in Blue. He's always looked more dangerous in Red or White.

For the price we paid, Torres will go down as an EPL flop. He would of been a Liverpool Legend had he decided to stay.

The sooner we manage to offload Torres, the better for our football club. We can move on from this nightmare.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

  On 27/09/2012 at 18:57, SeB said:

I'm bemused: what do you regard as "create his own goals" ?

Is he that good that he can cross the ball for himself? Pick himself with a through ball? Providing himself his own service?

Please stop with those clichés and look at things straight. I don't wan't to be harsh but expecting individuals to be messiah, may they be Hazard, Hulk, Falcao... is ridiculous

If you play Sunday Football you should have noticed that kicking long balls on the lone striker to put the ball nearer to the opponent's goals doesn't make you more dangerous. Football is a collective team, the ball has to be carried forward by 11 players, expected to be on the same wavelength

Can you please stop quoting me before we get into an argument? You're annoying...

[.Cee 50]

  On 27/09/2012 at 21:05, Tomo-91 said:

absolute bolax.

So you can guarantee this guy won't hit a slump? That the haters won't come out in droves if he does? Seriously? Didier, Lampsy, etc. etc. hit a slump and they were harshly slagged off. What makes this guy different?

  On 27/09/2012 at 19:14, zolayes said:

your first day back and causing trouble ...

So is it on or not?

[termninja 5,290]

  On 27/09/2012 at 20:41, Tricky said:

At Looserpool The fans worshiped him, at Chelsea they mostly complain about the chance he missed ( well this forum anyway) rather than the goal he scored.

Seriously, have we got to the point where we complain about his goal celebration?

There, you just missed my point...

  On 27/09/2012 at 19:41, Sh0n3x said:

Shame we see that once in a few months

And you missed my point, even when he scores he doesn't look like he used to in Liverpool or Atletico...only time I could see it it was for his first goal, Camp Nou goal and the one against Newcastle.

I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, I pretty much don't give a fuck what he does after he scores but I get annoyed when he doesn't score at all

[Tricky 301]

  On 28/09/2012 at 06:12, Sh0n3x said:

There, you just missed my point...

Was that the bit in red?

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 28/09/2012 at 06:11, .Cee said:

So you can guarantee this guy won't hit a slump? That the haters won't come out in droves if he does? Seriously? Didier, Lampsy, etc. etc. hit a slump and they were harshly slagged off. What makes this guy different?

There's no haters, well maybe a few idiots but in the whole their is a big difference between being critical of someone's performance and hating them.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

I really do believe he'll be ours in January. Only 3 more months until we get this monster and fans of other teams start quaking in fear.

Hazard Oscar Mata

Falcao

Imagine that coming at you . It will be the best attack in the EPL without any doubt.

[daBlackMamba7 174]

  On 28/09/2012 at 15:54, SeB said:

Actually when I take off all the approximations and deformations, that barely leaves anything interesting to debate on.

You point to the fact he's getting an insane support (I won't deny it) but in the same time one can argue he's probably one of the sportsmen who undergo one of the worst witch-hunt ever (and the media/developpement etc... of the footballing coverage comparing to few years back had just made things even worse).

That's give-and-take, the abuse he gets from the medias is as exagerated to the support he gets, I barely see people able to find the right balance and middle between both extremes

One more time he's not in a position where all the goals will rely on himself due to the players able to hit double figures around him. Can you remind me what made the strength of Manchester United or even Chelsea the recent years? Of course you need a leading goalscorer but don't you ever noticed the extra that Scholes, Lampard, Nani, Malouda etc... can bring by hitting double figures in a title challenging season?

I won't argue on the £50 fee, barely anyone is able to understand that it's dependent of a precise context, situation, where a club needed a striker, the other money, that Chelsea was the only option left for Torres etc...

Your plea is similar to the one from people who see football as 11 individuals kicking the ball on a ground - and I don't exagerate that much - want to replace Mikel with David Luiz, the good/vilain logic etc... I'll stop here the stigmatisation.

Football is a global buisness, even if Torres hasn't the expected sporting succes, his contribution to the image extending policy the club committed in the "new world" (Asia, America) was massive.

I would like to see figures of the Torres shirt sales, the only one which was made public was the one of the day he signed (60 sold for 1 Carroll one if I recall well). C. Ronaldo virtually "repayed" his astronomic fee in several month with shirt sales.

Your figures prove nothing but the complete misunderstanding of a crucial thing. Role given to a player ≠ abilities.

That's not because he was used as a goalscorer at Liverpool that suddently he becomes (and always was) a goalscorer... I do think that the Atletico sporting staff who stated that Torres had never been regarded as a goalscorer knows best than people behind their keyboards if Torres is a scorer.

As a football coach, if you (and KOF) have clues about what is a striker creating his goals by himself, I'm eager to be explained such things. Finding separation in the box is an asset but to be highlighted it needs service... like a car with petrol, basically.

But some tend to think Falcao is that good that he can assist himself, I won't waste time with that and just expect us to sign him to get rid of the youtube distorting prism.

Torres an score many goals but his palette of competence is far wider than that. I won't repeat how confidence is a catalyst of the performance in itself.

I've no conscience issues to state that an in form Torres is all round in terms of movements and on the ball.

Your conclusion proving how much you care your remarks to be taken seriously was quite useless by the way

I think that is what they meant by he can create his own chances, and that is an ability that Torres lacks...I think he gets service and most times cant separate himself in the box and score or do something meaningful, and as such debunks the he doesnt get service excuse that has been going around...I also believe "thats what is called the strikers instinct" his ability to know where to be and separate themselves from defenders to create the space for a shot, or being in the right position for that tap in...When the ball is played to the box, he always seems to be somewhere between to defenders or behind them or on the other side of the play, his inability to create that separation also makes it hard for his team mates to provide him with that excellent service that he craves, because they will end up putting the ball in and the defender is always first to it, or pass it around and look for a another options, which most times leads to slow build up and break in play...

I really respect your insight and knowledge of the game, and if there is something i am not looking at right, i would love for you to point it out...P.S dont listen to those who try to curse you out, i enjoy reading most your post (expect your love for Torres...lol) no matter how lengthy they often are, they are always informative....

[Las7 951]

  On 28/09/2012 at 15:54, SeB said:

Actually when I take off all the approximations and deformations, that barely leaves anything interesting to debate on.

You point to the fact he's getting an insane support (I won't deny it) but in the same time one can argue he's probably one of the sportsmen who undergo one of the worst witch-hunt ever (and the media/developpement etc... of the footballing coverage comparing to few years back had just made things even worse).

That's give-and-take, the abuse he gets from the medias is as exagerated to the support he gets, I barely see people able to find the right balance and middle between both extremes

It's perfectly normal for the media to make headlines, the "witch hunt" is part of a top footballer's daily live, if he cannot deal with hit pieces from the Media he has no place at the very top of the footballing spectrum.

It's perfectly valid for fans to call his performances into question, it's perfectly valid to ask why is Torres the first choice striker for the European Champions when he is and has always been a lesser player than the top strikers around the world. Why are we building a team around our weakest link - Torres had a worse goal per game ratio than all club top scorers in the England except Franco Di Santo for Wigan. You can question the service for a striker to a certain extend but there is a lot of hyperbole surround the issue of Torres and Service - Torres receives the ball, is usually unable to beat a defender, takes a touch too many when he wants to shoot(trying to move the ball to his left boot); or simply reverts into his protective shell by passing it off to someone else who can carry the burden of responsibility. At a top club you need a top striker not someone mentality weak who shies away from the responsibly and hides behind his markers instead of trying to beat them.

When a ball is crossed into the box, Torres cannot get in front of his marker in order to deflect it towards the goal - and that's one of the things any striker at top level should be able to do whether he is big or small. Beating your marker to the ball and deflecting the ball should be your #1 priority when you see your team mates on the flank. What usually happens is that either Torres remains static behind his marker or he is too far away from the danger area to really impact the situation.

This is unacceptable, the instinct to be infront of a defender when a pass is delivered and to either get a first time shot or shield the ball is the bread and butter of a forward and Torres has not been doing it since he arrived at the Bridge. If he actually tried to be get into such a position his tally would not be as abysmal as it stands right now.

  Quote

One more time he's not in a position where all the goals will rely on himself due to the players able to hit double figures around him. Can you remind me what made the strength of Manchester United or even Chelsea the recent years? Of course you need a leading goalscorer but don't you ever noticed the extra that Scholes, Lampard, Nani, Malouda etc... can bring by hitting double figures in a title challenging season?

I've no clue where you are heading with this argument, Torres needs to be scoring winners, winning us points that's all that matters in the League. You could score 1 goal against all your opponents and not concede and your goal total will be 39 goals it would still make you Champions. When your First Choice Striker cannot score a winner without being provided with a tap in from 1 meter out than you have serious problems on your hands. Thus far Torres has proved he is quite good against the QPRs; Leicester Citys; Genks and Wolves of the World and that he would help us humiliate some weak teams when we are already leading. His other goals didn't win us points or games.

  Quote

I won't argue on the £50 fee, barely anyone is able to understand that it's dependent of a precise context, situation, where a club needed a striker, the other money, that Chelsea was the only option left for Torres etc...

Forget the transfer fee, look at his wage, he is the best paid player at the club. There are certain expectations from a player demanding that type of wage thus far that money is being pissed away - he is not playing for the love of the game that's for sure.

  Quote

Your plea is similar to the one from people who see football as 11 individuals kicking the ball on a ground - and I don't exagerate that much - want to replace Mikel with David Luiz, the good/vilain logic etc... I'll stop here the stigmatisation.

I'm not sure why you try to boil the discussion down to an emotional angle - there is far more reasons to criticize Torres and to want an alternative than there is to support him. Making him our first choice striker after the one and a half years we have witnessed him struggle was realative to shooting ourselves in the foot this year, not signing another striker during the summer and letting go of Lukaku is pretty much shoving a gun in our mouth and playing Russian roulette.

  Quote

Football is a global buisness, even if Torres hasn't the expected sporting succes, his contribution to the image extending policy the club committed in the "new world" (Asia, America) was massive.

I would like to see figures of the Torres shirt sales, the only one which was made public was the one of the day he signed (60 sold for 1 Carroll one if I recall well). C. Ronaldo virtually "repayed" his astronomic fee in several month with shirt sales.

I'm sure you would also agree that Real Madrid signing Beckham instead of Ronaldinho is a stroke of genius as well - they must of made millions from that brilliant move. Let's not even delve into C.Ronaldo because for me he is worth every penny, and I'm not talking about shirt sales which sound like a joke. Do we care about Shirt Sales after winning the CL.

  Quote

Your figures prove nothing but the complete misunderstanding of a crucial thing. Role given to a player ≠ abilities.

That's not because he was used as a goalscorer at Liverpool that suddently he becomes (and always was) a goalscorer... I do think that the Atletico sporting staff who stated that Torres had never been regarded as a goalscorer knows best than people behind their keyboards if Torres is a scorer.

The key thing is that Torres used to have the capabilities, he hasn't showed them at Chelsea. Whether it's his injuries that have taken a yard off pace of his game - pretty much nullifying his key trait which made him so dangerous when he started playing in England or confidence issues we haven't seen his a World Class player in the last 2 years. Torres doesn't offer as much to his game as guys like Kun; Rooney; Tevez; Berbatov; Ibra; Drogba; Villa; etc when he is not scoring. Torres was bought to score goals at Chelsea FC a thing he has not been doing at the level required for a first choice player at a top club.

  Quote

As a football coach, if you (and KOF) have clues about what is a striker creating his goals by himself, I'm eager to be explained such things. Finding separation in the box is an asset but to be highlighted it needs service... like a car with petrol, basically.

But some tend to think Falcao is that good that he can assist himself, I won't waste time with that and just expect us to sign him to get rid of the youtube distorting prism.

I've addressed your point earlier in this post, I will also say that Torres struggles to shoot or beat his men which coupled with his inability to find space in front of his marker leads or make runs into the box when the ball is obviously going to be played there has lead to his downfall.

  Quote

Torres an score many goals but his palette of competence is far wider than that. I won't repeat how confidence is a catalyst of the performance in itself.

I've no conscience issues to state that an in form Torres is all round in terms of movements and on the ball.

Palette of Competence?

Dribbling skills - above average

First touch - average

Passing - good

Crossing - good

Movement off the ball - Erratic

Finishing - abysmal

  Quote

Your conclusion proving how much you care your remarks to be taken seriously was quite useless by the way

I don't post for you, I'm just providing a counter weight to people who hide their head in the sand while their World is crushing around them.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

  On 28/09/2012 at 15:58, SeB said:

I couldn't prevent myself to quote that post. Ball retention? Defensive balance? Service in adequacy with what Falcao requires? Behaviour (in terms of movements) in adequacy with the stretching of the opponent's intervals on which Falcao relies to score?

Didn't I ask you to stop quoting me?

[blueblood22 50]

you thinking about the short run i think about next season the others and what i want to se is lukaki as our main striker!! with danny as a sub or the other way and if we bring falaco we kill lukaku just be patint!

[bababoom 4,478]

  On 29/09/2012 at 00:04, KonohasOrangeFlash said:

Didn't I ask you to stop quoting me?

Why? because you cant handle the debate... Seb's a smart guy, it's alright if you feel intimidated...

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

  On 29/09/2012 at 00:53, James said:

Why? because you cant handle the debate... Seb's a smart guy, it's alright if you feel intimidated...

No. Its because I find him very annoying. He should stop quoting me.

[Spike 12,049]

I'm adding 'creating own chances' to the list of football terms and phrases that I despise.

Free Flowing Football

Creates Own Chances

Creativity

Double Pivot

Destroyer and Creator