Cesc Fàbregas

[CHOULO19 24,332]

you compared the situations. Mata couldn't play as a #10 because he doesn't have what it takes to do it in this system. Cesc has everything that it takes to be a #10 in any team in the world, including Chelsea. I'm not saying you compared him to Mata, I said understood you were comparing his situation to Mata's. Mata had a lot of weaknesses that compromised his performances in our system as a #10. Cesc has none.

Go some pages back in this thread. He's been performing worse now than he was two months ago, his latest matches he struggled a bit physically - simply because he's tired. Of course, some people in the thread made it look like he was even the 'weakest link in the team' (stealing Oscar's captive status btw), which is an exaggeration, but he's been up and down lately compared to earlier this season because he's clearly tired. But now he'll rest this weekend and hopefully also in the League Cup.

I'm not discussing he's at his best in the pivot. That's not up to discussion imo, but there's no way playing Cesc as a #10 is playing him out of position or affecting our whole system as you clearly stated. Both things are a stretch imo but we can agree to disagree.

My intention was not to compare the two situations. I meant to give evidence that playing in a position in a certain system doesn't mean you can play it in any system. Of course the two situations are not comparable.

You might be right that fatigue may have played a part in his performance yesterday, but I do think that, like you said, the inconsistency in his performances have been exaggerated. We can agree to disagree on how effective he can be in the advanced role until we have more games to judge on.

Actually, if you go to the first point, it was that he is better playing deep than more advanced which some people seem to disagree with. And my second point, I guess, has been that, if some reason we don't want to play Cesc in the pivot, should he played more forward? And I'm arguing that, no, we should still play Oscar or Willian there because I think they offer more in that position.

[dee25 1,044]

Call it whatever you want, I don't think he plays nearly as well in the number ten role in our system as Oscar or Willian.

I thought it was a very big drop in performance. He went from being the engine of the whole team and the architect who designs the attacks and controls the tempo, to fairly limited impact on our attack, mostly through set-pieces. Salah, Schurrle and even Matic had a much bigger impact on our attack and general play than him.

Well firstly, in this system the no.10 in general has a limited impact in attack. Secondly. If I'm not mistaken, Cesc has played in the no. 10 role for us twice - yesterday against Sporting and in the 2nd half against City. That's a very small sample of performances to use as evidence that he offers less than Oscar and Willian who have played far more games in that position than Cesc.

This whole argument is baseless in my opinion.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Well firstly, in this system the no.10 in general has a limited impact in attack. Secondly. If I'm not mistaken, Cesc has played in the no. 10 role for us twice - yesterday against Sporting and in the 2nd half against City. That's a very small sample of performances to use as evidence that Cesc offers less than Oscar and Willian who have played far more games in that position than Cesc.

This whole argument is baseless in my opinion.

Yes, I agree, there is little evidence either way, so, like I said to Barbara above, we can agree to disagree until there is more analyze. It is just a personal opinion on how I expect him to perform based on his abilities and attributes.

[nyikolajevics 2,587]

Well, someone should have been sacked at Chelsea too for paying so much money for your son.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,893]

I thought it was a very big drop in performance. [Against Sporting] He went from being the engine of the whole team and the architect who designs the attacks and controls the tempo, to fairly limited impact on our attack, mostly through set-pieces. Salah, Schurrle and even Matic had a much bigger impact on our attack and general play than him.

Wow, I'm going to have to watch the game again to try to understand how our impressions of Cesc's performance on Wednesday can be so different.

[Special Juan 27,429]

The fact that it hurts Arsenal so much seeing him here, makes me love him more.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Call it whatever you want, I don't think he plays nearly as well in the number ten role in our system as Oscar or Willian.

I thought it was a very big drop in performance. He went from being the engine of the whole team and the architect who designs the attacks and controls the tempo, to fairly limited impact on our attack, mostly through set-pieces. Salah, Schurrle and even Matic had a much bigger impact on our attack and general play than him.

No idea what you're talking about. Fabregas had a good game and looked comfortable.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

No idea what you're talking about. Fabregas had a good game and looked comfortable.

I thought he was largely uninfluential in the game. Oscar and Willian usually have a lot more impact on the match in that position.

[Rom2013 446]

Fabregas is untouchable. He is with Costa the best payer of the season so far... and when compared with Oscar... there is no doubt. If it's better to play with Ramires in some games, the one to be dropped is Oscar.

FOr me Fabregas was the best player against Sporting again.

[The Skipper 20,593]

I thought he was largely influential in the game. Oscar and Willian usually have a lot more impact on the match in that position.

Not when we're going forward. Fabregas controlled the game at the number 10 last game.

I do agree he's better for us deeper but that doesn't mean he won't perform well in a more advanced position.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Not when we're going forward. Fabregas controlled the game at the number 10 last game.

I do agree he's better for us deeper but that doesn't mean he won't perform well in a more advanced position.

The question is whether he can perform there better than Oscar and Willian. I don't think so, although, like we said above, there isn't exactly a large sample to judge on.

[The Skipper 20,593]

The question is whether he can perform there better than Oscar and Willian. I don't think so, although, like we said above, there isn't exactly a large sample to judge on.

Even then, I don't think we can compare Oscar's and Willian's roles at number 10 to Fabregas'. Against Sporting, Fab played a lot more like a true number 10 since he effectively had two shields in Matic and Mikel behind him. He wasn't given the same duties as Willian or Oscar would usually have at #10.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Even then, I don't think we can compare Oscar's and Willian's roles at number 10 to Fabregas'. Against Sporting, Fab played a lot more like a true number 10 since he effectively had two shields in Matic and Mikel behind him. He wasn't given the same duties as Willian or Oscar would usually have at #10.

Was it because he had different duties or because he is unable to play like Oscar and Willian?

[The Skipper 20,593]

Was it because he had different duties or because he is unable to play like Oscar and Willian?

Both. Fabregas isn't a defensive beast like Oscar or Willian so of course that's impossible. However when it comes to being a pure number 10 he's much better than both.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Both. Fabregas isn't a defensive beast like Oscar or Willian so of course that's impossible. However when it comes to being a pure number 10 he's much better than both.

Yes, and both our attacking and defensive systems are built with a number ten (if you could even call it that) like Willian and Oscar. We would need to alter our pressing system and the dynamics of our movements in the final third if we want to play Cesc there in bigger games. That's exactly my point.

[Barbara 15,149]

Both. Fabregas isn't a defensive beast like Oscar or Willian so of course that's impossible. However when it comes to being a pure number 10 he's much better than both.

I can't for the life of me understand how a player can play in the pivot, lead tackles won in some of our matches and still be labeled as someone who can't do the same job Oscar or Willian do defensively.

Maybe they press better than him - as if our system was based that much on press to start with. There was a time this season that yes, we were a pressing machine, not as of late though, but I wouldn't call either a beast and I don't see how much inferior defensively Cesc is to any of them. If he is, it's slightly imo, something we can totally overcome.

[chelseafc9010 224]

Willian and Oscar aren't better at defending in the pivot. There's two types of defending, down hill or up hill. Oscar & Willian defend up hill as they are very good at pressing and winning the football. Cesc on the otherhand prefers to defend deeper, make smart tackles and smart movement. Both are good at defending but Fab is better in the pivot and Oscar & Willian better higher up.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Oscar can defend in the pivot, WIllian can't.