Ricardo Rodriguez

[Rekin 835]

Statistics are used as an element of an argument. One does not only look there and draw final conclusions, but it is a very helpful tool.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

I'm just asking questions about points you're raising. If you don't know then just say.

Stats never tell the whole story and need to be put in context.

You said that he doesn't take set-pieces because he can't deliver them as well as Lallana and Ramirez...does he deliver them better or worse than Steven Davis?

I'm gonna say this one more time before I start to hit the ignore list....

Take it with a grain of salt.

I've watched both Rodriguez and Shaw and there is no comparison between the two in terms of skill set. Luke Shaw has better composure and seems to play without pressure, I like that about him and said as much a few pages ago. I terms of technique and ball skills Rodriguez is without a doubt the better footballer. Shaw hasn't shown me much of anything going forward and hasn't really shown he can pick a pass or boss a flank.

The Shaw hype machine is in overdrive because he's English and comes from a reputable academy. England has made a habit of overhyping their new young stars and next to none of them fulfill the presumed potential. I like Shaw, I hope he proves me wrong don't want him for 30m as I have a feeling it will end up looking like the Andy Carroll signing.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I'm gonna say this one more time before I start to hit the ignore list....

Take it with a grain of salt.

I've watched both Rodriguez and Shaw and there is no comparison between the two in terms of skill set. Luke Shaw has better composure and seems to play without pressure, I like that about him and said as much a few pages ago. I terms of technique and ball skills Rodriguez is without a doubt the better footballer. Shaw hasn't shown me much of anything going forward and hasn't really shown he can pick a pass or boss a flank.

The Shaw hype machine is in overdrive because he's English and comes from a reputable academy. England has made a habit of overhyping their new young stars and next to none of them fulfill the presumed potential. I like Shaw, I hope he proves me wrong don't want him for 30m as I have a feeling it will end up looking like the Andy Carroll signing.

I don't agree with much of that post, but the comparison to Carroll is absolutely ridiculous. There are no similarities at all as far as I can see.

Factor in the English tax, the fact that Shaw has proven he can handle this league and that he's also a Chelsea supporter and a local lad and the extra £10 million really doesn't seem like that much. The wages are probably a bigger stumbling block.

Both could continue to develop and become excellent players but if we're going the young route then Shaw's the man. If we're not going for him then Luis makes more sense.

Either way people need to actually investigate the stats their using to support their arguments than simply posting them without even knowing if corners are factored into key passes.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

I don't agree with much of that post, but the comparison to Carroll is absolutely ridiculous. There are no similarities at all as far as I can see.

Factor in the English tax, the fact that Shaw has proven he can handle this league and that he's also a Chelsea supporter and a local lad and the extra £10 million really doesn't seem like that much. The wages are probably a bigger stumbling block.

Both could continue to develop and become excellent players but if we're going the young route then Shaw's the man. If we're not going for him then Luis makes more sense.

Either way people need to actually investigate the stats their using to support their arguments than simply posting them without even knowing if corners are factored into key passes.

Wait. Is Andy Carroll not English? Did he not prove at Newcastle he could handle the league? Why is it ridiculous? If Shaw goes for 30m it will be considered as sizeable as Carroll's deal. What has Shaw done to warrant being worthy of a 30m price tag and to be good enough to play on a top 5 team in the world? Being English is not enough for me. If you're worried about the homegrown quota it only states that they need to be in your 25-man roster doesn't say you have to pay over the odds to acquire them and play them in every game.

If Shaw had a reasonable price tag I would prefer him to Rodriguez on account that he loves Chelsea and is homegrown. I refuse to buy into the idea that Chelsea should pay this ridiculous "English tax" especially when England do not produce incredible talent and when we have an academy that is developing some nice looking players. Homegrown talent is better off being club trained than it is purchased, especially when teams like Southampton think someone like Shaw is worth 30m.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Homegrown talent is better off being club trained than it is purchased, especially when teams like Southampton think some like Shaw is worth 30m.

If we buy Shaw now he'll be considered as 'club trained' in three seasons.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

If we buy Shaw now he'll be considered as 'club trained' in three seasons.

Why does that even matter? Maybe I should've been more specific. I mean Chelsea should look to develop from within rather than purchase English players for prices similar to what we paid for Hazard.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

http://www.optasports.com/who-we-work-with.aspx#1209

Gracias

[The only place to be 11,313]

Wait. Is Andy Carroll not English? Did he not prove at Newcastle he could handle the league? Why is it ridiculous? If Shaw goes for 30m it will be considered as sizeable as Carroll's deal. What has Shaw done to warrant being worthy of a 30m price tag and to be good enough to play on a top 5 team in the world? Being English is not enough for me. If you're worried about the homegrown quota it only states that they need to be in your 25-man roster doesn't say you have to pay over the odds to acquire them and play them in every game.

Carroll wasn't a teenager regarded as one of the best young talents around. He was in good form but the transfer was a panic buy literally at the last-minute which is why he was vastly overpriced.

If Shaw had a reasonable price tag I would prefer him to Rodriguez on account that he loves Chelsea and is homegrown. I refuse to buy into the idea that Chelsea should pay this ridiculous "English tax" especially when England do not produce incredible talent and when we have an academy that is developing some nice looking players. Homegrown talent is better off being club trained than it is purchased, especially when teams like Southampton think someone like Shaw is worth 30m.

And £20 million for Rodriguez is 'reasonable' now is it? Those are the figures being bandied around which makes no sense. Like I said if you want to develop young talent then that's fine - buy a proven top-level left-back like Luis who can have three good seasons whilst we look to develop our own talent like Dasilva or Aina.

Personally I think we either go for Shaw and go all in on him being our left-back for the next 10-12 years or go for a short-term option like Luis. Rodriguez to me has more risk and less potential reward than either of them.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Carroll wasn't a teenager regarded as one of the best young talents around. He was in good form but the transfer was a panic buy literally at the last-minute which is why he was vastly overpriced.

And £20 million for Rodriguez is 'reasonable' now is it? Those are the figures being bandied around which makes no sense. Like I said if you want to develop young talent then that's fine - buy a proven top-level left-back like Luis who can have three good seasons whilst we look to develop our own talent like Dasilva or Aina.

Personally I think we either go for Shaw and go all in on him being our left-back for the next 10-12 years or go for a short-term option like Luis. Rodriguez to me has more risk and less potential reward than either of them.

So because someone shows promise as a teenager it makes them a 30m player?

I'm hoping we're dealing with £ not € everything I've read has Ricardo rated at €18-20m(£15-16m). And yes given what I've seen he's worth every penny.

Shaw is nothing close to a lock, he is just another in the long list of potential English talent. If we pay 32m for Hazard I see no reason in paying 30m for Shaw... Just doesn't make any sort of financial sense at all. You like him because he's English and is young, likes Chelsea, I have no attachment to the player's origin only to the skill and right now Luke Shaw looks nothing close to a 30m player and there's no guarantee he will ever look like it.

[Sovieticus 743]

Rodriguez is amazing and such, but we're we even linked with him?

[The only place to be 11,313]

So because someone shows promise as a teenager it makes them a 30m player?

I'm hoping we're dealing with £ not € everything I've read has Ricardo rated at €18-20m(£15-16m). And yes given what I've seen he's worth every penny.

Shaw is nothing close to a lock, he is just another in the long list of potential English talent. If we pay 32m for Hazard I see no reason in paying 30m for Shaw... Just doesn't make any sort of financial sense at all. You like him because he's English and is young, likes Chelsea, I have no attachment to the player's origin only to the skill and right now Luke Shaw looks nothing close to a 30m player and there's no guarantee he will ever look like it.

I think you're denigrating Shaw to suit your argument for Rodriguez. It is possible to rate both players fairly despite favouring one over the other. I think Rodriguez is a fine player but he's not perfect and the issues he has are ones to do with the mental side of the game and they're sometimes tough to develop. I also think some people pay too much attention to his stats without actually understanding them.

Shaw is a technically gifted young player who has the intangibles. Mentally it's phenomenal that he's stepped up so quickly and it's easy to forget that. In the toughest league in the world he's barely skipped a beat but of course there's no guarantee he'll continue to develop. There never is.

Too suggest I like him purely because he's English and young and supports Chelsea is a little silly, but I won't pretend these things don't matter. Football isn't just about stats, it's about emotional connections. It's perfectly fine that you don't have that but for many supporters there's something romantic about having a player who is a local lad and who loves the club putting on the shirt.

It's silly but sports are silly. Without that emotional connection what's the point? You might as well just watch football matches on ceefax.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

I think you're denigrating Shaw to suit your argument for Rodriguez. It is possible to rate both players fairly despite favouring one over the other. I think Rodriguez is a fine player but he's not perfect and the issues he has are ones to do with the mental side of the game and they're sometimes tough to develop. I also think some people pay too much attention to his stats without actually understanding them.

Shaw is a technically gifted young player who has the intangibles. Mentally it's phenomenal that he's stepped up so quickly and it's easy to forget that. In the toughest league in the world he's barely skipped a beat but of course there's no guarantee he'll continue to develop. There never is.

Too suggest I like him purely because he's English and young and supports Chelsea is a little silly, but I won't pretend these things don't matter. Football isn't just about stats, it's about emotional connections. It's perfectly fine that you don't have that but for many supporters there's something romantic about having a player who is a local lad and who loves the club putting on the shirt.

It's silly but sports are silly. Without that emotional connection what's the point? You might as well just watch football matches on ceefax.

Is Shaw worth twice as much as Rodriguez? that is the only question you need to answer everything else is just useless.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Is Shaw worth twice as much as Rodriguez? that is the only question you need to answer everything else is just useless.

Oversimplified question doesn't have a simple answer unfortunately. Neither Rodriguez nor Shaw is worth the prices quoted at this exact moment because what you're paying for isn't just their current attributes but also their potential. With Filipe Luis you're paying for an immediate level of play.

So they're worth those prices because that's what the market dictates, but if you're looking at it from a value perspective then it's impossible to say until 10 years down the line.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Oversimplified question doesn't have a simple answer unfortunately. Neither Rodriguez nor Shaw is worth the prices quoted at this exact moment because what you're paying for isn't just their current attributes but also their potential. With Filipe Luis you're paying for an immediate level of play.

So they're worth those prices because that's what the market dictates, but if you're looking at it from a value perspective then it's impossible to say until 10 years down the line.

I'm reading this and immediately rolled my eyes because I believe you know the answer and refuse to give it.

Shaw is not worth 30m, Rodriguez at 16m is a lot more digestible, if he flops its not a huge financial commitment.

I have no idea why you are holding onto this strawman argument, its as clear as day! LUKE SHAW IS OVERPRICED!! You don't spend 30m on potential with FFP being implemented He has to show that he is worthy of such a commitment REGARDLESS of where he was born and who he supported growing up!! He is a good, young English prospect, he doesn't have WORLD BEATER written all over him!!

If Shaw were available at the same price as Rodriguez it would give me something to think about at current its a no brainer... Rodriguez is further developed and showing skill level that is on par with what we need at LB, this isn't a debate, Shaw is an unknown quality, he could be better than Ricardo in 10 yrs but there is no way to know that is there?

[The only place to be 11,313]

I'm reading this and immediately rolled my eyes because I believe you know the answer and refuse to give it.

That is the answer though. I'm sorry it isn't what you wanted to hear but it's the honest, reasoned answer. We'll just have to agree to disagree though because you seem to be getting a little irritable.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

That is the answer though. I'm sorry it isn't what you wanted to hear but it's the honest, reasoned answer. We'll just have to agree to disagree though because you seem to be getting a little irritable.

I'm pretty sure I've said as much 5-10 pages ago. Love Shaw but not at the ridiculous price tag of 30m. END OF ARGUMENT.

[laura90 556]

Is Shaw worth twice as much as Rodriguez? that is the only question you need to answer everything else is just useless.

You know, I'm completely with you on this. Rodriguez is better footballer than Shaw, and better value for money.

But if you ask me is Shaw worth twice as much, I would say yes. Let me elaborate. While Rodriguez would be more appropriate for our left back position, Shaw would be more appropriate for left back position and filling the void left by Cole's departure and possible Frank's departure and inevitable and imminent Terry's departure.

Those players with Drogba weren't important just because of their skill, they provided much more, sense of unity, commitment, loyalty, love and fight for this club.

You need players who love club and care for the club little more than other players, who transfer their enthusiasm on other players, who motivate and push other players when it's tough ( I know it's mainly coach's job but still). And let's not fool ourselves Chelsea is the English club in the English League and needs as much English players as possible who also have skill. Shaw fits the bill. While Rodriguez is better going forward, more skillful in set pieces Shaw is solid left back who, even if never match Rodriguez's attacking skill, can give to this team something that can't be measured but it's more valuable than assists and goals.

Of course, Shaw alone isn't enough. We would also need Terry to be replaced with Kalas or someone else from the academy and at least another player promoted from the academy to the first team like RLC. But he would make a good start.

[gr123 167]

Is there any point arguing over the price? Since the new tv deal was put in place, transfer prices have gone mad.

English players always come at a premium. Shaw just appears to have the talent to back up that premium. As an English club, we need to have an English core. With Cole and Lampard potentially going, Terry in a year or 2 perhaps.. who else is left? Cahill. That's it.