Ricardo Rodriguez

[The only place to be 11,313]

But what context or interpretation do you feel is lacking? If I write that he has 2,3 key passes per game, what exactly am I conceiling? Having had statistics several times at university-level I am perfectly aware of its limitations, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Wolfsburg might be playing differently than Chelsea, Bundesliga might be different from the premier league, but a player who is able to succesfully find his targets with a cross or set-piece does not magically lose this ability when traveling to a new country, neither does he forget how to dribble or pass. The player might have difficulties in some departments (tactics or physically [altough RR is built very well]), but he does retain his skills. Shaw would also share some of the difficulties that RR would encounter.

You say that Shaw is MILES ahead of RR at the same age, but I think that it is too bold a statement. Did you actually follow RR three years ago so that you can claim this? Being Swiss he obviously had to go through a different career-path that might not have provided the exposure a young talent like Shaw gets in his own home-country. We might actually say that RR has an advantage in adapting to a new league in a different country, something Shaw has yet to do.

Rodriguez is right now far ahead of Shaw. It is possible that Shaw will be as good at 21, but we already know that RR is excellent right now. I would be happy with either of them, but if we are looking at minimizing risk, RR would be the better choice.

The level of opposition matters, as do the differences in the league. The Premier League is much faster-paced than the Bundesliga that has a big impact in my opinion.

Quite frankly it comes down to individual opinions and I think they're both extremely promising youngsters but I simply don't believe there's a massive difference in the risk attached to buying either one of them. Shaw has proven that he can handle the Premier League and Rodriguez has yet to do that. Yes his whoscored rating is great, but so was De Bruyne's at Werder Bremen (7.58....coooo) and he struggled with the rigours of English football.

[The only place to be 11,313]

He's not the finished article but in everything he does he is MILES better than Shaw. Its hardly debatable and for a guy who I think understands the game and seems sensible I don't know why you have so much to say to the contrary.

And you are entitled to your opinion, dog... I'm not gonna argue with you over why I think Ricardo is better than Luke in every category, to me its as plain as day.

Your finished article is statistically nowhere near Rodriguez.... Dude you will never convince me that Luis or Shaw are better options than Rodriguez, its just not gonna happen. I've watched all three quite a bit and for me Ricardo's skillset is head and shoulders above both of them.

Cool dog. Then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Prove it

http://www.optasports.com/who-we-work-with.aspx#1209

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

De Bruyne's at Werder Bremen (7.58....coooo) and he struggled with the rigours of English football.

He struggled with the duties Jose asked him to perform, not the league as a whole.

[Styles 9,790]

Dismissing stats is popular, but to be frank they are very useful at helping us understand players we do not see as often as we would like.

Here are some examples on why RR is a great choice for left back:

Key Passes: At 2,3/game RR would be in the top10 players in all of the best leagues (Serie A, La liga, PL & Bundesliga), and remember that he is a left back up against the like of Ribery, Messi, Silva & Hazard (as a matter of fact he is not far behind Hazard).

Crossing: There are currently six (!) players in the previously mentioned leagues who have more accurate crosses

Dribbles: Only one defender has more succesful dribbles than he does. Those two are far far ahead of the other defenders in this department.

Tackles: When looking at defenders he would be in the top5 in all the main leagues when it comes to tackles (one person that has more is our own Cesar)

Now, there are other great attributes (such as his excellent skills when it comes to set-pieces), but I cant be bothered to go through all of them.

The point is that he is the best left-back statistically in all of the best Leagues, and he is only 21.

Is he unproven? It depends on how you define proving yourself, but he is first choice in Wolfsburg which is a good german club. He has achieved high ratings against clubs like Dortmund and Bayern who we know belong to the absolute elite.

He is in the fifth highest ranked player on WS in total.

Do all of this guarantee success?

Of course not, but the way I see it we are taking a smaller risk than with Shaw for a better price (again, I highly rate Shaw, but if it was a contest between the two of them RR would win easily).

Rekin makes a good argument to be fair.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Key Passes: At 2,3/game RR would be in the top10 players in all of the best leagues (Serie A, La liga, PL & Bundesliga), and remember that he is a left back up against the like of Ribery, Messi, Silva & Hazard (as a matter of fact he is not far behind Hazard).

Do whoscored factor in set-pieces as part of this statistic?

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Do whoscored factor in set-pieces as part of this statistic?

Of course. Its still an accurate delivery though... Grain of salt on that

[The only place to be 11,313]

Of course. Its still an accurate delivery though... Grain of salt on that

So his taking set-pieces won't have any impact on the number of assists or key passes he makes per game? What's the split in the numbers of key passes attributed to him between those from set-pieces and those from open play?

How many set-pieces did Luke Shaw take last year?

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

So his taking set-pieces won't have any impact on the number of assists or key passes he makes per game? What's the split in the numbers of key passes attributed to him between those from set-pieces and those from open play?

How many set-pieces did Luke Shaw take last year?

Again... grain of salt.

Luke Shaw doesn't take set-pieces because he can't deliver them accurately as someone like Lallana or Rodriguez.

[Waterfall 893]

Whoscored grossly overrates Bundesliga players. I think Carvajal was in the top 20 last season, but he's not even in the top 200 now. No point comparing across leagues if the stats aren't adjusted. Does anyone actually believe 11 of top 20 players in the world play in Bundesliga? Rodriguez, Firmino, Raffael, Kruse, Adrian Ramos, Farfan, and Kiesling? Give me a break

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Whoscored grossly overrates Bundesliga players. I think Carvajal was in the top 20 last season, but he's not even in the top 200 now.

Is it that Whoscored overrates or is it that he's not in a system that lets him perform the same way? Kind harsh to say they overrate when all they do is tabulate stats.

[Waterfall 893]

Is it that Whoscored overrates or is it that he's not in a system that lets him perform the same way? Kind harsh to say they overrate when all they do is tabulate stats.

Stats need to be adjusted for competition, because right now it has zero value as a prediction tool if you are looking at different leagues.

[Rekin 835]

I am not sure actually. Considering that set-pieces and key passes are two different categories (where the first one is measured by accuracy) I would say it is possible that one is not included in the other.
He is at any rate taking the set-pieces because he is very good at them, his corners and free-kicks are fantastic (goes hand in hand with good crosses I guess).

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Stats need to be adjusted for competition, because right now it has zero value as a prediction tool if you are looking at different leagues.

What part of GRAIN OF SALT do you guys need clarification on?

[Waterfall 893]

What part of GRAIN OF SALT do you guys need clarification on?

I wasn't even arguing against you. I was just stating my observation which it seems like you agree.