Would missing out on the top four be the worst thing in the world?

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Yup. We need CL to keep our current players happy. To get money. To attract new players. To gain interest from neutral fans. To give our younger players experience.

There are plenty of reasons.

Besides regarding your love to youth. Everyone wants (including me) to have as most players from our youth. But dont get delusional. We have plenty of youth players who have Potential to be world class. From Chalobah to Kdb etc. But we also need to look at our PRESENT. Having team of several kids would take CL, PL and trophies overall from us for few years. And what then? Some top players might leave too.

Right now we need manager who will fix things up. Perhaps Mou is only who can fix the mess in shortest time. I cant see some unexperienced coach do anything serious regarding our problems. But as to your youth plan goes, there always needs to be balance between top players and young players. Current team lacks world class players and 2 must come in summer urgently. No one saying we should get Falcao, but someone like Cavani and Moutinho are realy necesary.

We have two problems regarding new players to come

1.) players on specific positions (ST and DLP) who both should be very good. After all we will defo spend 80mio again thanks to Roman's obsesion and we will probably sell Malouda, Essien, Marin, Torres, Benayoun...

2.) rotation/squad players to add depth who should be taken from youth programs or loans. (Kdb, Josh, Chalobah, Lukaku,...). We wouldnt spend anything on them and eventualy they will be starters if they perform.

[bushman 2,043]

What points should be made here to convinced anyone that ending out of top four is not desired.

The whole thread is just one trifle.

Those who think finishing below 4th place may help Chelsea should give up watching Chelsea, I feel.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Yup. We need CL to keep our current players happy. To get money. To attract new players. To gain interest from neutral fans. To give our younger players experience.

Fair points. We need overseas fans to buy our t-shirts but that isn't the be all and end all of football.

There are plenty of reasons.

Besides regarding your love to youth. Everyone wants (including me) to have as most players from our youth. But dont get delusional. We have plenty of youth players who have Potential to be world class. From Chalobah to Kdb etc. But we also need to look at our PRESENT. Having team of several kids would take CL, PL and trophies overall from us for few years. And what then? Some top players might leave too.

Because you can't win anything with kids? Which top players would leave by the way?

Right now we need manager who will fix things up. Perhaps Mou is only who can fix the mess in shortest time. I cant see some unexperienced coach do anything serious regarding our problems. But as to your youth plan goes, there always needs to be balance between top players and young players. Current team lacks world class players and 2 must come in summer urgently. No one saying we should get Falcao, but someone like Cavani and Moutinho are realy necesary.

I agree that we need a playmaker and a third striker but spending £50 million on a striker doesn't guarantee results. I have faith in our scouting system to find us the players we need and we don't need to be in the CL to get them all.

We have two problems regarding new players to come

1.) players on specific positions (ST and DLP) who both should be very good. After all we will defo spend 80mio again thanks to Roman's obsesion and we will probably sell Malouda, Essien, Marin, Torres, Benayoun...

2.) rotation/squad players to add depth who should be taken from youth programs or loans. (Kdb, Josh, Chalobah, Lukaku,...). We wouldnt spend anything on them and eventualy they will be starters if they perform.

I think we can win the league with just the addition of a DLP. I think we need a defender and a third striker but I honestly don't think this squad is that far away from being a top, top team. The key addition will be a manager and hopefully that will be Jose. If he doesn't want to come because we're not a Champions League team then he's not the man we thought he was and it will be his loss.

We are on the cusp of great things at this club and we just need the impetus to have faith and take a chance. Missing out on the Champions League for one season (which isn't that long in a lifetime of supporting a club) whilst building something that will outlive us all is not the worst thing in the world. I think those who think it is are probably younger fans in all honesty, and that's not a sleight just an observation.

[Rmpr 8,977]

These are actually pertinent points. Whatever happens, we need to make changes but I don't know if we do that if we maintain the status quo.

Make no mistake, the ideal situation is that we qualify for the CL and make the right adjustments but I have reservations whether we'll do that. Missing out on the CL for a year would force us to do that whilst also giving us some breathing space to do so.

If we can continue the progress we've made whilst achieving a top four finish then that would be ideal. Ultimately though, I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world if we missed out. The club would still be there, the loyal supporters would still turn up and every other week we'd get to go to see the greatest team in the world play. That's what football is to supporters and as long as that still exists, then we're very lucky fans.

I will try to explain why I highly disagree with you. I will already warn you that I have accumulated hangover, so my already not so good english wont get any better!

1. Money: Dont tell me it isnt important and that EPL increase will cover it. It is a hell lot of money and why not take advantadge of both amounts, UCL + EPL? All other clubs will get a crazy increase in TV rights from the Premier League, it is not like it will be our privilege. Arsenal and Spurs desperately need both incomes, so it is even bigger than being about us. I want to see them fucked up as much as everyone does.

2. Media: UCL is the biggest tournament in the world; where the finest football is played and where we see the best teams and players against each other. The decrease in media exposure is gigantic for a team not in it. How will our partners/sponsors react to it? Adidas wont be very happy to see their second best selling club out of its UCL marketing campaign...

3. Fans: Well, I know you dont respect overseas fans and I dont really give a fuck about it. However, we (including the plastic ones) are important to every club. We buy shirts, products in general, increase TV ratings, travel to London to give YOUR country and YOUR club money, chant, cry, smile, etc. Chelsea magical night last May was huge in gaining new fans (plastic or not, doesnt matter). It is games like this that might sparkle passion inside new fans, specially kids!

4. Players: You talk about how we might not go for super expensive players if we qualify, but I view things exactly in the very opposite way. We arent Arsenal nor Manure who depend on a budget and UEL ruins it. We have a fucking crazy billionaire (that I love) who would actually do crazier things to go back to top4. Falcao like deals only get more dangerous if we fail to make top4. They will ask for more money (due to UCL excuse) and Roman might be able to agree with it in order to buy the stars players he thinks bring success. Dont you remember the situation Torres was brought? Well, it might very well repeat itself!

5. Youth: We dont need UEL to develop them, we have two good domestic cups to do so. Our squad is so thin and weak that we actually need the loaned players back AND some new signs (like Gourlay said, 2-3 top players will do). It is not like if we buy some players, our youngsters wont be used. There are enough matches to satisfy a good group of 22-23 players. KDB, Chabolah, Lukaku, etc; could very well be used in Cup games, some minor League challenges and as direct replacements. I honestly dont belive UCL has anything to do with their development.

6. UEL: This is the worst problem of it all. It makes you travel to far away places, to face shit teams, in shit Thursday. Enough said!

7. League Distraction: This is a bit tricky. I never thought UCL had that huge of an impact on our league performance. I didnt see it influencing it in Mourinho's era nor with Guus and nor with Carlo. In 2012 we werent a good team to challenge for the title anyways. I can see it being an issue if Jose comes though, he will be way more focused in winning it with us than regaining the league. So, I give you this one then...

Ok, I think that is all. Qualifying for UCL is more than important and not doing so only does harm.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

It's not in my opinion. I think it could be the start of something great where we do things properly and build a sustainable future for the club.

If we don't qualify for the CL, we can still make a push for the league next season and that is the most important thing isn't it? To be the best team in your country? That to me is the measure of success next season, not just being able to go to CL matches.

People keep moaning (incorrectly) that we could become like Arsenal - that to me is the attitude that caused Arsenal's troubles.

Now its about money, glory, importance, sucess, trophies...take that away from us and think again if Mata or Hazard (among others) would stay here. For what? Being fifth in league, just to create some youth project etc.?

It sounds nice to have our own team of players we produce but it doesnt go like that. What you think about is utophia. Its never going to happen. We will lose players, money, trophies. In few years we will be medium team with homegrown team. So what? You dont realy think that we can produce 8 homegrown world class players? If 2 will be starters in next five years I will be extremely happy.

Keep up the balance. Experience/Class-Youth/potential.

Right now we have dozen of potential players but very very few top class players. That us exactly why we need two players in summer. If you think getting Cavani and Moutinho is bad because we should have this so called youth project for next 5 years and give up on everything and start from bottom then I dont know what is wrong with you?! It will take 15 years to create something like Barca or Borussia is doing to have youth, fans, great play and success together. This things take time. You have established 11 players and every two seasons you bring in another youth player to try him in first team. Some succeed some not. In the end you have 60 foreign and 40 homegrown players and thats success over 15 years of creating everything from attitude to fans, board members, buying policy etc. If you think we can just do this in few years you are heavily wrong.

In best case your scenario would be like this: we give chance to youth. They dont show enough. We dont qualify to CL for few years. We lack money ti buy players to save situation. We are forced to sell our best players. We lose several fans. We never reach 3 place in PL. We cant attract new players. We cant win any trophies. Roman decides to sell us. Bottom of the story. It takes 10 years to finaly rebuild team. We have new board, coach and full mix of youth and experience. We get to 3rd spot in PL. After decade we play in CL again. We get more money, support and fans thanks to good performances. We win PL, first since 2010. After grear season, we are on top. We are CL trophy main favourites and in 2029 we win it again for the first time after 2012. We have 60% of homegrown players, we are dubbed as next barcelona.

In worse we never recover after Roman leaves and we are officialy midtable team again.

This isnt fifa to get 10 youth players and develop them in world class in 4 years and win everything.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I will try to explain why I highly disagree with you, I will already warn you that I have accumulated hangover, so my already not so good english wont get any better!

1. Money: Dont tell me it isnt important and that EPL increase will cover it. It is a hell lot of money and why not take advantadge of both amounts, UCL + EPL? All other clubs will get a crazy increase in TV right from the Premier League, it is not like it will be our privilege. Arsenal and Spurs desperately need both incomes, so it is even bigger than being about us. I want to see them fucked up as much as everyone does.

Can't disagree. We would stand to lose money.

2. Media: UCL is the biggest tournament in the world; where the finest football is played and where we see the best teams and players against each other. The decrease in media exposure is gigantic for a team in it or not. How will our partners/sponsors react to it? Adidas wont be very happy about seeing their second best selling club out of its UCL marketing campaign...

Again, can't disagree. We wouldn't become a small club overnight though.

3. Fans: Well, I know you dont respect overseas fans and I dont really give a fuck about it. However, we (including the plastic ones) are important to every club. We buy shirts, products in general, increase TV ratings, travel to London to give YOUR country and YOUR club money, chant, cry, smile, etc. Chelsea magical night last May was huge in gaining new fans (plastic or not, doesnt matter), it is games like this that might sparkle passion inside new fans, specially kids!

We need the tourists and the overseas fans to buy our shit but they aren't the priority in my view. They never will be because they aren't what I equate supporting Chelsea with - they're figures on a balance sheet. I will always place an emphasis on the people in the stadium who get behind the team and have done for many years. I'm not going to apologise for that.

4. Players: You talk about how we might not go for super expensive players if we qualify, but I view things exactly in the very opposite way. We arent Arsenal nor Manure who depend on a budget and UEL ruins it. We have a fucking crazy billionaire (that I love) who would actually do crazier things to go back to top4. Falcao like deals only get more dangerous if we fail to make top4. They will ask for more money (due to UCL excuse) and Roman might be able to agree with it in order to buy the stars players he thinks bring success. Dont you remember the situation Torres was brought? Well, it might very well repeat itself!

That's certainly a possibility but we've seen Roman be more restrained over the last couple of years and I would hope that would continue. People like to characterise him as 'crazy' or naive ayetnd nothing I've heard or read comes close to that.

5. Youth: We dont need UEL to develop them, we have two good domestic cups to do so. Our squad is so thin and weak that we actually need the loaned players back AND some new signs (like Gourlay said, 2-3 top players will do). It is not like if we buy some players, our youngsters wont be used. There are enough matches to satisfy a good group of 22-23 players. KDB, Chabolah, Lukaku, etc; could very well be used in Cup games, some minor League challenges and as direct replacements. I honestly dont belive UCL has anything to do with their development.

I think the problem is that we might just use these youngsters for cup games rather than trust them in league matches. They're young players and they will make mistakes but you have to stick by them when they do. We have this bizarre notion that youngsters have to be 100% ready which is completely absurd. No-one is ever 100% ready and you have to be prepared for slip-ups along the way. It's the way they bounce back that will determine their success or failure.

6. UEL: This is the worst problem of it all. It makes you travel to far away places, to face shit teams in shit Thursday. Enough said!

I followed Chelsea to Tromso - it's never shit in my opinion.

7. League Distraction: This is a bit tricky. I never thought UCL had that huge of an impact on our league performance. I didnt see it influencing it in Mourinho's ere nor with Guus and nor with Carlo. In 2012 we werent a good team to challenge for the title anyways. I can see it being an issue if Jose comes though, he will be way more focused in winning it with us than regaining the league. I give you this one then...

I think we're capable of both but the league has to be the most important.

Ok, I think that is all. Qualifying for UCL is more than important and not doing so only does harm.

Fair enough.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Now its about money, glory, importance, sucess, trophies...take that away from us and think again if Mata or Hazard (among others) would stay here. For what? Being fifth in league, just to create some youth project etc.?

So they just leave? You realise they have contracts and aren't massive cunts don't you?

It sounds nice to have our own team of players we produce but it doesnt go like that. What you think about is utophia. Its never going to happen. We will lose players, money, trophies. In few years we will be medium team with homegrown team. So what? You dont realy think that we can produce 8 homegrown world class players? If 2 will be starters in next five years I will be extremely happy.

Well with that type of support from loyal fans like you it's definitely not going to work. I'm not asking for a whole team of homegrown players, but I would like to see Chalobah, Courtois, Lukaku, De Bruyne and a couple of others given a shot.

Keep up the balance. Experience/Class-Youth/potential.

Right now we have dozen of potential players but very very few top class players. That us exactly why we need two players in summer. If you think getting Cavani and Moutinho is bad because we should have this so called youth project for next 5 years and give up on everything and start from bottom then I dont know what is wrong with you?! It will take 15 years to create something like Barca or Borussia is doing to have youth, fans, great play and success together. This things take time. You have established 11 players and every two seasons you bring in another youth player to try him in first team. Some succeed some not. In the end you have 60 foreign and 40 homegrown players and thats success over 15 years of creating everything from attitude to fans, board members, buying policy etc. If you think we can just do this in few years you are heavily wrong.

Because you'll never win anything with kids right?

In best case your scenario would be like this: we give chance to youth. They dont show enough. We dont qualify to CL for few years. We lack money ti buy players to save situation. We are forced to sell our best players. We lose several fans. We never reach 3 place in PL. We cant attract new players. We cant win any trophies. Roman decides to sell us. Bottom of the story. It takes 10 years to finaly rebuild team. We have new board, coach and full mix of youth and experience. We get to 3rd spot in PL. After decade we play in CL again. We get more money, support and fans thanks to good performances. We win PL, first since 2010. After grear season, we are on top. We are CL trophy main favourites and in 2029 we win it again for the first time after 2012. We have 60% of homegrown players, we are dubbed as next barcelona.

In worse we never recover after Roman leaves and we are officialy midtable team again.

How the fuck is that a 'best case scenario'? :lol2:

[bushman 2,043]

International fan base is much more important for today´s football clubs than 40 thousand fans at Stamford Bridge.

The days of " working class " football fans are long gone.

[Rmpr 8,977]

We need the tourists and the overseas fans to buy our shit but they aren't the priority in my view. They never will be because they aren't what I equate supporting Chelsea with - they're figures on a balance sheet. I will always place an emphasis on the people in the stadium who get behind the team and have done for many years. I'm not going to apologise for that.

It is one thing to prioritize and another to not give us any credit. Dont get me wrong, I would do the same. Believe me, I would choose someone like Liquidator over me to be a Chelsea supporter. However, there is no need to be disrespectful to us and call us plastic or say we cant complain about anything because we dont go to games. Well, I cant go to the games!

I dont want an appology from you, you cant even answer your own PM...

That's certainly a possibility but we've seen Roman be more restrained over the last couple of years and I would hope that would continue. People like to characterise him as 'crazy' or naive ayetnd nothing I've heard or read comes close to that.

The 'crazy' that I personally atribute to Roman is his natural lack of reality. Him doing another 100mi+ deal to get a big time player is totally unhealthy and crazy in my world, not for him.

I also believe he has learned his lesson, but his attitudes does make us take it with a pinch of salt!

I think the problem is that we might just use these youngsters for cup games rather than trust them in league matches. They're young players and they will make mistakes but you have to stick by them when they do. We have this bizarre notion that youngsters have to be 100% ready which is completely absurd. No-one is ever 100% ready and you have to be prepared for slip-ups along the way. It's the way they bounce back that will determine their success or failure.

Agreed. Anything to do with UCL though?

I followed Chelsea to Tromso - it's never shit in my opinion.

I am not talking about fans travelling and enjoying going to those places, etc. I am talking about the squad....

It is horrible to play on Thursdays and always have your game delayed and it is not very good to go to Eastern Europe all the time (not because it is shit, but because it takes more time and all the other things that comes with it). And all of this for what? So we can either say we did nothing more than our duty by beating teams like Steua or that we are a shame to lose?

I think we're capable of both but the league has to be the most important.

I do think so, but that is kind of an endless topic...

[Stingray 9,441]

A world scale nuclear disaster or something in that area would be the worst thing.

Not finishing in the top four would not necesarilly be a disaster RELATIVE to the ambition and policy of unbolstering all the young guns we have now here and on loan. But is that our only ambition, I asked myself? Would finishing in the op 4 block that process? I really think not ....

Relative to maintaining our current and future status as a top team it can (conditional used here) seriously set us back as well. Since nobody knows how the dice will fall, you might consider it an unnecessary risk. Especially with FFP and the decrease in attractiveness as a club for players AND future managers.

It is no disaster, but it would cripple us for a while, I believe.

Also, his debate has a nonsensical side to it. As if we have a choice in this .... Whatever happens, we as a club will have o make the best of the future situation.

[bushman 2,043]

Money or prestige wise, CL trophy has no comparison.

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Very much agree with Romper 's points.

[Santiago. 1,500]

International fan base is much more important for today´s football clubs than 40 thousand fans at Stamford Bridge.

The days of " working class " football fans are long gone.

Agreed. We wouldn't of had the pleasure of listening to your wise and quality posts if it wasn't. Lucky us

[Santiago. 1,500]

Money or prestige wise, CL trophy has no comparison.

So in that case, Nottingham Forest is bigger than us and we are as big as Aston Villa?

[bushman 2,043]

Agreed. We wouldn't of have the pleasure of listening to your wise and quality posts if it wasn't. Lucky us

Now, you are talking. Thanks pal.