A personal view on where we are right now

[SeB 1,281]

If you look at the likes of Cleverley and Welbeck or even Jones and Smalling at United, they had time at other clubs where they learnt what being part of the first-team was all about before they joined United’s first-team. We just haven’t had those kids come through and the players who might have backed up the first team like Essien or Benayoun were signed to big contracts that were agreed before we entered this period of austerity.

Maybe because they're not good enough? I can't understand how the club can be blamed for not playing his youth given nor McEachran, Sinclair etc... managed to get more than a hand of games for Swansea and Wigan at the same time than Cleverley and Welbeck played 30 games or so.

Including youth as 3rd or 4th choices means that you plan on a developpement pattern, we just can't do that given how small the squad is. Even if the kids are good enough, they might have a mare at times and force the manager to replace them early in the game for the sake of the (professional) team... I guess that's the best way to kill a young player mentally

We don't even produce youth otherwise, we overpay 15 years old, some aren't even homegrown, some become greedy etc... Like most big clubs, our *academy* isn't supposed to produce youths, it's supposed to scout and sign the brightest prospect in England and Europe and expect one to make the step. Stoch etc... aren't failures, that's how things work, everybody knows they're going to be sold or released, most will bounce back in lower clubs.

My only disappointments in terms of young players are Mancienne and Cork. The first one was never going to be world class but I'd happily have taken him for a similar role to Bertrand, that's how you fill a 25 men squad. Cork was fairly decent for Burnley and Southampton now but given the requirements of the central midfielder role in a big club such as Chelsea, I can understand how he never really was trusted there... I doubt Clifford and Saville will get through the first team as central midfielders as well even with the same scheme (from full back to centre midfield).

At the time Kakuta and Benayoun were both at the club, let me tell you that I would have picked Benayoun any day of the week to rotate the squad.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

tl;dr

GTFO

Superb article. For the most part, spot on. The thing you get across best is our own over-expectations for the summer. After our successes in the FA Cup and of course Munich, the natural line of thinking is to expect bigger and better things. The way the first ten matches went, the more you thought that would become a reality. Yet this was always going to be a transitional season, as no matter the good work RDM did last year it was merely - as you say - papering over very large cracks. Finishing sixth in the league last term is the biggest indication yet, and whilst we are currently doing substantially better in the league this time around, the fact we have only the FA Cup and Europa League to choose from in terms of silverware (having already thrown away three trophies, been unceremoniously dumped out of another on a technicality, fucking up a semi-final and then being out of league contention by November) shows the dire straits we are in right now.

[bushman 2,043]

That's a fair point, but it's hard to really know who to blame. Let's be honest, no big decision is made without Roman's say-so, so ultimately he's the one who should bear a lot of the blame but as I said above I think (or hope) he's learnt from his mistakes.

If we take the Torres signing and the Ancelotti sacking as a watershed moment (granted it's about a six month period) then you can see real changes in the way the club has operated. Transfer fees on average came down whilst the age of the player being bought dropped too. We had a massive intake class in the youth team that season and again this season (16 players if I recall) and Roman appointed a young manager with a view to a long term commitment.

Now certain things didn't work out but the right noises were being made. Even now we have 22 players out on loan with the majority of them young kids who we would look to make part of the first-team squad. We're sprinting to do that now because we weren't doing it effectively 3-5 years ago.

The problem is that if you want to blame the hierarchy, some of the main culprits simply aren't around anymore. The constants have been Buck, Barnard and maybe Tenenbaum. People like Gourlay and Emenalo seem to be doing their jobs pretty well, Gourlay on the commercial side and Emenalo on the scouting side. There's just this gap between 2005 and 2011 where we probably weren't doing what we should have been doing and we're paying for it now.

Since you are on the outside looking in,then you simply can not know what´s going on behind the scenes at Chelsea.

Why do you think he employs all those idiots on the board ?

Then you continue how well current Gourlay & Emeralo are doing. Well, if I may simplify it ? If Roman comes to me & gives me 50m to play with, I too would go out & buy the Hazards, Oscars, easily. One does not need to an expert to see these kids & their potential. How about it ?

May I go on ? Have Chelsea bought any less expensive player than 20m, lately ? Oh, I know Marin. What a fucking joke we have got here.

Personally, I do not blame Roman mainly for hire & fire policy, at all. The whole club & its officials are bunch of useless jokers, to me, see Chelsea´s loan policy.

[TrippingStep 336]

Azpilicueta was a good buy.

[bushman 2,043]

Azpilicueta was a good buy.

Yes, he was. Sorry about him.

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Good article.

The thing is that we just have too many talented players to not be successful,the likes of KDB,courtois,kalas,lukaku,PVA,chalobah,hazard,oscar etc are all extremely talented and gifted players what we need badly is some stability and a long term manager who will help these young players to go to the next level.

[bushman 2,043]

I believe Chelsea needs much more than just one manager.

The whole loan policy needs to be revised, I feel.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Maybe because they're not good enough? I can't understand how the club can be blamed for not playing his youth given nor McEachran, Sinclair etc... managed to get more than a hand of games for Swansea and Wigan at the same time than Cleverley and Welbeck played 30 games or so.

Including youth as 3rd or 4th choices means that you plan on a developpement pattern, we just can't do that given how small the squad is. Even if the kids are good enough, they might have a mare at times and force the manager to replace them early in the game for the sake of the (professional) team... I guess that's the best way to kill a young player mentally

We don't even produce youth otherwise, we overpay 15 years old, some aren't even homegrown, some become greedy etc... Like most big clubs, our *academy* isn't supposed to produce youths, it's supposed to scout and sign the brightest prospect in England and Europe and expect one to make the step. Stoch etc... aren't failures, that's how things work, everybody knows they're going to be sold or released, most will bounce back in lower clubs.

My only disappointments in terms of young players are Mancienne and Cork. The first one was never going to be world class but I'd happily have taken him for a similar role to Bertrand, that's how you fill a 25 men squad. Cork was fairly decent for Burnley and Southampton now but given the requirements of the central midfielder role in a big club such as Chelsea, I can understand how he never really was trusted there... I doubt Clifford and Saville will get through the first team as central midfielders as well even with the same scheme (from full back to centre midfield).

At the time Kakuta and Benayoun were both at the club, let me tell you that I would have picked Benayoun any day of the week to rotate the squad.

I think you have a point with them not being good enough. Mancienne never kicked on and Cork was unlucky to be in a crowded position. I think you could probably include Bridcutt as one who needed more time than we were prepared to give him. Sinclair really never showed enough and I think he's going to end up leaving City sooner rather than later.

I also think you make a good point about what our academy is supposed to do. Primarily it's supposed to develop youngsters for the first-team and that's something it's underperformed at, but there's also this rather cynical business of developing players for sale. If you look at something like the Stoch sale (reported to be about £4 million) then we seem to be doing well in that department and sales like that can then be re-invested in dozens more kids.

But going back to this sea-change at the club, I think the calibre of player we're developing has improved dramatically and I live in hope that they'll be given chances to compete for places in the team but that requires stability in the managerial position. What I will say is that I don't think we've had a prospect as good as Chalobah in a long-time. With Kakuta there were question marks over his ability to impose himself on matches as there are with a lot of flair players, whilst McEachran still has a lot to prove when it comes to the physical aspect of the game. With Chalobah, he simply has to answer the question 'can he do it at the next level?'.

The problem facing all academies in this country is the same it's always been - too many players get lost between under-19 teams and first-team football, but what I think our board need to be praised for is securing a number of worthwhile loan moves for some of the youngsters. That's something we struggled with in the past.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Since you are on the outside looking in,then you simply can not know what´s going on behind the scenes at Chelsea.

Why do you think he employs all those idiots on the board ?

I don't think they're idiots. I think they've made mistakes but I think that the general direction they're moving in has been positive.

The most important thing in my view is that they don't seem to make the same mistakes. That's not a ringing endorsement but if you look at player recruitment since 2011, the wage bill, the moves to build a new stadium and even the hiring of AVB and the noises being made about Moyes there at least appears to be this capacity to learn which isn't as abundant in football as you might think *cough* Arsenal....

Since you are on the outside looking in,then you simply can not know what´s going on behind the scenes at Chelsea.

Why do you think he employs all those idiots on the board ?

Then you continue how well current Gourlay & Emeralo are doing. Well, if I may simplify it ? If Roman comes to me & gives me 50m to play with, I too would go out & buy the Hazards, Oscars, easily. One does not need to an expert to see these kids & their potential. How about it ?

May I go on ? Have Chelsea bought any less expensive player than 20m, lately ? Oh, I know Marin. What a fucking joke we have got here.

Personally, I do not blame Roman mainly for hire & fire policy, at all. The whole club & its officials are bunch of useless jokers, to me, see Chelsea´s loan policy.

Yes. Moses, Azpi, Cahill, De Bruyne, Courtois, Ba, Romeu.

Now of those players I'd say each one is worth more than they were when we signed them, and all have the potential to be mainstays of the squad for a number of years with the possible exception of Ba.

The loan policy is a little extreme this year but it's again born of mistakes made in the past. Of those 22 players on loan, 21 are under 23 years old and roughly half don't have a future at this club if we're being honest. Essien was struggling with injuries and form for at least a year before he left and was earning a big wage whilst doing so, as was Benayoun. Of the players on loan you've got maybe 2 who could come in and do a good job in the first team (De Bruyne and Lukaku, possibly Chalobah) but you'd be risking their development which is something we've done in the past.

Going back to one of my original themes, this is just the bad-tasting medicine we've got to swallow because we allowed ourselves to get into a bad position in the first place.

[Sovieticus 743]

IMO we are in deep shit.

[bushman 2,043]

I don't think they're idiots. I think they've made mistakes but I think that the general direction they're moving in has been positive.

The most important thing in my view is that they don't seem to make the same mistakes. That's not a ringing endorsement but if you look at player recruitment since 2011, the wage bill, the moves to build a new stadium and even the hiring of AVB and the noises being made about Moyes there at least appears to be this capacity to learn which isn't as abundant in football as you might think *cough* Arsenal....

Yes. Moses, Azpi, Cahill, De Bruyne, Courtois, Ba, Romeu.

Now of those players I'd say each one is worth more than they were when we signed them, and all have the potential to be mainstays of the squad for a number of years with the possible exception of Ba.

The loan policy is a little extreme this year but it's again born of mistakes made in the past. Of those 22 players on loan, 21 are under 23 years old and roughly half don't have a future at this club if we're being honest. Essien was struggling with injuries and form for at least a year before he left and was earning a big wage whilst doing so, as was Benayoun. Of the players on loan you've got maybe 2 who could come in and do a good job in the first team (De Bruyne and Lukaku, possibly Chalobah) but you'd be risking their development which is something we've done in the past.

Going back to one of my original themes, this is just the bad-tasting medicine we've got to swallow because we allowed ourselves to get into a bad position in the first place.

Now, you are saying the board had learned ? Yea, Butland is all that Chelsea needs now.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Now, you are saying the board had learned ? Yea, Butland is all that Chelsea needs now.

Butland at £3 million is underpriced. I've made other points in his thread, but if that story is accurate then I can't think of a single reason why we wouldn't buy him.

[bushman 2,043]

Butland at £3 million is underpriced. I've made other points in his thread, but if that story is accurate then I can't think of a single reason why we wouldn't buy him.

& what for ? Because he sells for 3m ?

[Rmpr 8,977]

Butland at £3 million is underpriced. I've made other points in his thread, but if that story is accurate then I can't think of a single reason why we wouldn't buy him.

I can think of two: Cech and Courtois.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I can think of two: Cech and Courtois.

The plan for Courtois seems to be loaning him out to a Premier League side next season, whilst Turnball and Hilario are gone in the summer in all likelihood. That leaves Blackman as the only realistic backup.

If Butland is happy to join a club that can't guarantee him first-team football then I'd sign him in an instant.

& what for ? Because he sells for 3m ?

We're going to need to sign at least one goalkeeper in the summer. Why not get one who is English, cheap, has residual value and just happens to be pretty good (although not as good as some in the media might have you believe)?

Surprised there's so much resistance to this story after the Brentford game, although I think there's maybe 10% chance of us actually getting him.

[bushman 2,043]

The plan for Courtois seems to be loaning him out to a Premier League side next season, whilst Turnball and Hilario are gone in the summer in all likelihood. That leaves Blackman as the only realistic backup.

If Butland is happy to join a club that can't guarantee him first-team football then I'd sign him in an instant.

We're going to need to sign at least one goalkeeper in the summer. Why not get one who is English, cheap, has residual value and just happens to be pretty good (although not as good as some in the media might have you believe)?

Surprised there's so much resistance to this story after the Brentford game, although I think there's maybe 10% chance of us actually getting him.

To sing him just cos he is English & cheap ? Funny, I must say.

[cujo101 75]

I would just buy Craig Gordon on a free transfer. Good experienced back-up keeper. Far better than those two sub standard reserves we have at the moment.

[gary gordon 1,777]

I just don't understand, usually if we aren't doing well we use the winter window to buy that player we need. We bought Ba, we still suck.

Is that it? Something doesn't seem right..

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

Nice thread, decent time to ponder that issue.

Let's assess what we got, a clueless board, an average and unpopular manager, a vastly talented skeleton of a squad, drained of experience, relying on 3 weakish, young, inconsistent AMs that still are to win a big match for us, serious issues in key positions, the "press" and probably half of europe having a feud with us, an immensely rich, supportive but very authoritive and interfering, impatient owner, an army of more or less quality players out on loan and a world class academy full of great talents that are still to come through

Fuck the manager and the press, we as a club are a global brand, got enough capital and surely the potential to become the strongest team in the world within a decade. The problem is that we do not have authorities in the board that really have clue, most are business men and maybe fans but no true blues and surely no football men, well many big clubs have worked without for decades but still there was something extra : la masia at Barca, corruption and the government allowing the club slush funds at Real and Bayern, political power and a competent manager in charge since the last ice age aso. Our factor of consistency have been individual achievements, Jose, RDM in the short term, Lampard, drogba, Terry, Cech in the long term have carried the club, compensating the managers and the boards flaws. Now the latter has decided to get rid of them we are in deep trouble, cos there is no basis of success nothing the club can cling on footballing wise. We cant sign young players and tell them they are the replacments, we have to ease them in, if we manage to fix our squad and are able to maintain the spirit that made us big, we are fine and will return as strong as ever but the indicated shotgun approach will simply aggravate everything. Our last decade of success is worth nothing. Success is like a building, you have to maintain the pillars until u got new ones that are esqually strong, but when you remove the old ones and got no replacements it will crush and you have to build out of the ruins. Right now our building is faltering, our future is in the balance.

[cujo101 75]

I just don't understand, usually if we aren't doing well we use the winter window to buy that player we need. We bought Ba, we still suck.

Is that it? Something doesn't seem right..

The central midfielders are knackered. Ramires & Lampard play 90 mins in every game at the moment. Essien, Meireles and Mikel now missed. We should recall Josh and/or Essien. I would also recall Lukaku and never play Torres again but that's just me. We have simply run out of gas. I almost forgot to mention Benitez's shit tactical substitutions but that's a whole another matter ....