Closed Shakhtar Donetsk 2-1 Chelsea

[Superblue 6,372]

Spot on, it could be one of those hindsight vital moments, like Cole's goal line clearance in Naples. I actually celebrated the goal because if we win 1-0 at home and finish level with the Ukraine's in 2nd, Oscar's goal will be the one that sends us through.

Something else that crossed my mind after the City game is that if it wasn't for us winning the Champions League last season, it papered over the cracks for what was an abysmal season for English teams in Europe (both Champs League and Europa League). This season looks to be a follow on from that - City are struggling, us and Arsenal are not yet comfortable and both been comprehensively outplayed this week, and although United will get out of their group, I would be amazed if they could go on and win the competition. I wouldn't be surprised to be honest if this year no English team gets past the quarter finals. European football is the polar opposite to the English game and as United and Chelsea's styles have perhaps moved further to suiting the English game over the last couple of seasons, it is to the detriment of playing in Europe.

Barcelona and Real Madrid will be there, Malaga and PSG look good dark horses, and the German teams look very dangerous at the moment.

Having said all of that, and considering we have finally won the Champions League, I wouldn't be against a mediocre season in Europe this year if it meant winning back the league off the two Manc clubs!

[YouNameIt 1,511]

I beg to differ as you suffer from lack of knowledge.

Sturridge's gradual introduction into champions league games is how experience should be attained for a young inexperienced striker until he proves to be ready by proving himself in those cameos which are offered to him. That's what most managers do.

Like it or not torres is a proven striker and that's why we paid 50m for him. In champion league every game is a big one so we can't risk it. Except you think yourself suddenly more capable than RDM which i doubt its just a wish on your part anyway.

The thing is, he used to be.

And if you do not agree on the fact that Danny has been hindered from playing more and as CF is because CHelsea are stubborn on playing Torres, you obviousley cant read into things. And im not just talking about this game.

[Tomo 21,751]

I beg to differ as you suffer from lack of knowledge.

Sturridge's gradual introduction into champions league games is how experience should be attained for a young inexperienced striker until he proves to be ready by proving himself in those cameos which are offered to him. That's what most managers do.

Like it or not torres is a proven striker and that's why we paid 50m for him. In champion league every game is a big one so we can't risk it. Except you think yourself suddenly more capable than RDM which i doubt its just a wish on your part anyway.

Torres was proven like younameit said, Hasselbaink was a proven forward, does that mean he would come back this season slot in and take us to latter stages of the CL? no.

Torres is past it, previous CL display's shouldn't mean he gets picked over Danny, why did we get into the static mess of the two season's prior to this one in the first place? keeping players in the team on reputation. Our players spent the whole of 10/11 getting picked on the basis off their form in the double season.

If you mean proven in the fact that did he score against Real Madrid 4 years ago then no Danny isn't as proven as Torres, but compare them in a Chelsea shirt, there is only one winner.

Danny may not be the most proven forward in Europe, but he is the best fucking one we have right now, so he should play, period.

[Tomo 21,751]

@Superblue_1986, Agree i can't see us doing well in Europe this season, hopefully we can atleast get to the KO rounds so it avoids us being the first defending Champions to fall at the first hurdle, god that would be embarrassing.

[Superblue 6,372]

@Superblue_1986, Agree i can't see us doing well in Europe this season, hopefully we can atleast get to the KO rounds so it avoids us being the first defending Champions to fall at the first hurdle, god that would be embarrassing.

Yeah hopefully!

I do think though with what is IMO a thin squad, particularly in certain areas, it would not be the end of the world this year to not get far in the Champions League. Don't get me wrong, I would give anything to see us retain the Champions League, but I just don't see it at the moment, and like 2010, an early exit from Europe could be hugely beneficial for a push for domestic titles.

Europe seems to bring up rivalries, and give chances to teams to get payback on another team seasons afterwards (Liverpool, Barca, etc) - with that in mind, I have this huge feeling inside that Bayern will be our nemesis in this years competition.

[CFCRazor 49]

You lot, honestly some of you sound like it's the end of the world that we lost 1 game in the CL group stages, like that hasn't ever happened to us before. And our squad now has so much more depth than we had at the business end of the season last year. You need to lighten up a little bit, we have one of the most (potentially) exciting squads in a long time, some of them are still gelling together and we make a few mistakes now and then (some being more costly than others), but who doesn't?!

Fact remains that our squad is capable of getting out of the group and some way into the KO stage (how far depends on squad fitness and the amount of silly mistakes that happen).

We get one loss in the season and some of you are contemplating the possibility that we might not even make it through the group stage!!

Jeez.

[Superblue 6,372]

You lot, honestly some of you sound like it's the end of the world that we lost 1 game in the CL group stages, like that hasn't ever happened to us before. And our squad now has so much more depth than we had at the business end of the season last year. You need to lighten up a little bit, we have one of the most (potentially) exciting squads in a long time, some of them are still gelling together and we make a few mistakes now and then (some being more costly than others), but who doesn't?!

Fact remains that our squad is capable of getting out of the group and some way into the KO stage (how far depends on squad fitness and the amount of silly mistakes that happen).

We get one loss in the season and some of you are contemplating the possibility that we might not even make it through the group stage!!

Jeez.

Yes our squad has so much depth in striking positions doesn't it?! The one area we are well catered for in our squad is the attacking midfield three. All other areas of our squad may well be strong in talent but not in depth. Much of our 'squad depth' invariably comes from certain players being versatile to cover a number of positions such as Ramires and Ivanovic. What you also have to consider is that we are now a side relying heavily on a much younger core of players to 'produce' for us, as opposed to the previously old experienced guard. The point I have been making is that this season could take it's toll on the likes of Oscar and Hazard with the amount of competitions we are in and as we are clearly struggling much more to adapt in Europe than we have domestically, I wouldn't be too disheartened about having a mediocre European campaign if that kept the team fresh and benefitted us in winning back the league.

All you have to do is check my post on this topic last night to realise that I am not one to call 'crisis' after one or two games, but we have to be realistic and at this moment we are struggling in Europe and flying domestically. One may have to prioritise the other eventually...

[TrippingStep 336]

Something else that crossed my mind after the City game is that if it wasn't for us winning the Champions League last season, it papered over the cracks for what was an abysmal season for English teams in Europe (both Champs League and Europa League). This season looks to be a follow on from that - City are struggling, us and Arsenal are not yet comfortable and both been comprehensively outplayed this week, and although United will get out of their group, I would be amazed if they could go on and win the competition. I wouldn't be surprised to be honest if this year no English team gets past the quarter finals. European football is the polar opposite to the English game and as United and Chelsea's styles have perhaps moved further to suiting the English game over the last couple of seasons, it is to the detriment of playing in Europe.

Barcelona and Real Madrid will be there, Malaga and PSG look good dark horses, and the German teams look very dangerous at the moment.

Having said all of that, and considering we have finally won the Champions League, I wouldn't be against a mediocre season in Europe this year if it meant winning back the league off the two Manc clubs!

I think the problem is that the english formations seems to be too easily happy to sit back with the back 4 in line, not pressing the ball. There should be more mix between the zone and pressing.

[Jype 6,398]

I beg to differ as you suffer from lack of knowledge.

Sturridge's gradual introduction into champions league games is how experience should be attained for a young inexperienced striker until he proves to be ready by proving himself in those cameos which are offered to him. That's what most managers do.

Like it or not torres is a proven striker and that's why we paid 50m for him. In champion league every game is a big one so we can't risk it. Except you think yourself suddenly more capable than RDM which i doubt its just a wish on your part anyway.

Sturridge has a better goals / game ratio in a Chelsea shirt than Torres. So far Danny has 23 goals in 88 appereances and Torres is at 18 goals in 80 games and also it has to be said that Sturridge has definitely played less minutes in those games because he has mainly been used as a substitute. If Danny is considered not proven, then what does that make Torres? Past glories mean nothing if you're shit for two years straight.

[meetdoscar 335]

The thing is, he used to be.

And if you do not agree on the fact that Danny has been hindered from playing more and as CF is because CHelsea are stubborn on playing Torres, you obviousley cant read into things. And im not just talking about this game.

And you think only sturridge has been hindered? Romeu, azpillicueta, bertrand isn't it obvious to you that RDM goes for experience over youth

[Jype 6,398]

And you think only sturridge has been hindered? Romeu, azpillicueta, bertrand isn't it obvious to you that RDM goes for experience over youth

Sure, but the thing is that the players keeping Romeu, Azpilicueta and Bertrand out of the team are actually playing well and there's no need to drop them other than giving them the occasional rest. Of course those three maybe should have played a game or two more but it's definitely not the same as it is with Torres because with his form he should never be starting games in the first place. If Mikel, Ivanovic or Cole start playing like shit on a regular basis I'm sure Di Matteo will drop them and give the younger ones a chance but somehow Torres seems to be undroppable.

[meetdoscar 335]

Sturridge has a better goals / game ratio in a Chelsea shirt than Torres. So far Danny has 23 goals in 88 appereances and Torres is at 18 goals in 80 games and also it has to be said that Sturridge has definitely played less minutes in those games because he has mainly been used as a substitute. If Danny is considered not proven, then what does that make Torres? Past glories mean nothing if you're shit for two years straight.

Yea yea yea drogba scored 12 goals(less than sturridge) last season but is still king, mourinho uses benzema ahead of higuain despite benzema hasn't scored in la liga this season. Let's not argue but I wish sturridge would be picked for the remaining games until january let's see how great he is. But at the moment I see us scoring goals and lots of them so if it ain't broke no need to fix it.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

And you think only sturridge has been hindered? Romeu, azpillicueta, bertrand isn't it obvious to you that RDM goes for experience over youth

Jesus christ are you for real?

Why would he drop Cole in important games when Cole still proves that he is amongst the best LBs in the world?

Why would he drop Ivanovic for AZPI (cant even believe u mentioned him) when Iva has been MASSIVE for us? both defensive and offensive?

As for Romeu, there is clearly something going on there. Maybe he isnt 100% to stay in Chelsea.

ANd you actually compare this with the Torres situation when Torres has been practically shit? If Danny performed like Torres you and alot more would bash him so harshly and throw comments like "where are all sturridge lovers now", "what did we say" etc...

[CFCRazor 49]

Yes our squad has so much depth in striking positions doesn't it?! The one area we are well catered for in our squad is the attacking midfield three. All other areas of our squad may well be strong in talent but not in depth. Much of our 'squad depth' invariably comes from certain players being versatile to cover a number of positions such as Ramires and Ivanovic. What you also have to consider is that we are now a side relying heavily on a much younger core of players to 'produce' for us, as opposed to the previously old experienced guard. The point I have been making is that this season could take it's toll on the likes of Oscar and Hazard with the amount of competitions we are in and as we are clearly struggling much more to adapt in Europe than we have domestically, I wouldn't be too disheartened about having a mediocre European campaign if that kept the team fresh and benefitted us in winning back the league.

All you have to do is check my post on this topic last night to realise that I am not one to call 'crisis' after one or two games, but we have to be realistic and at this moment we are struggling in Europe and flying domestically. One may have to prioritise the other eventually...

a bit early to be saying that we are struggling to cope in Europe when we have only lost one of the 3 games we have played.... (by way of actually playing poor and looking like we dont have an answer), the draw against Juve was just a typical Chelsea result and the same happened last year numerous times in thinking that we have the upper hand being 2 goals up and then just taking our foot off the gas... The other game we smashed Nordshit, who managed to draw against Juve... So to say that we are struggling based on what we have seen so far... meh.

[Superblue 6,372]

a bit early to be saying that we are struggling to cope in Europe when we have only lost one of the 3 games we have played.... (by way of actually playing poor and looking like we dont have an answer), the draw against Juve was just a typical Chelsea result and the same happened last year numerous times in thinking that we have the upper hand being 2 goals up and then just taking our foot off the gas... The other game we smashed Nordshit, who managed to draw against Juve... So to say that we are struggling based on what we have seen so far... meh.

The Juventus game wasn't like last season, we actually struggled and Juventus outplayed us at home.

The game in Denmark we struggled aswell - 3 goals in the last 10 minutes masked a poor performance.

The Shakhtar game was dreadful.

European and English football are completely different styles and it is clear whilst we've hit the ground running domestically, it will take longer to adapt our style in Europe hence why I don't believe we'll retain the cup.

[CFCRazor 49]

The Juventus game wasn't like last season, we actually struggled and Juventus outplayed us at home.

The game in Denmark we struggled aswell - 3 goals in the last 10 minutes masked a poor performance.

The Shakhtar game was dreadful.

European and English football are completely different styles and it is clear whilst we've hit the ground running domestically, it will take longer to adapt our style in Europe hence why I don't believe we'll retain the cup.

Oh what it must feel like to be so positive . I'll focus on the positives rather than the negatives and just be thankful that we aren't being slammed like the likes of City are. Fact of the matter is, we are still 2nd in the table (with only 4 points yes), but 2 more wins at home and we should be dandy. Then the dynamics of the competition change when the KO phase is initiated. Though it would be stupid to say that we WILL retain the trophy again this year, I hold out hope that we can, at least, get rather far in the competition (how far is down to the luck and what happens on each respective night).

We shall but see.

[Superblue 6,372]

Oh what it must feel like to be so positive . I'll focus on the positives rather than the negatives and just be thankful that we aren't being slammed like the likes of City are. Fact of the matter is, we are still 2nd in the table (with only 4 points yes), but 2 more wins at home and we should be dandy. Then the dynamics of the competition change when the KO phase is initiated. Though it would be stupid to say that we WILL retain the trophy again this year, I hold out hope that we can, at least, get rather far in the competition (how far is down to the luck and what happens on each respective night).

We shall but see.

I think you've taken my posts the wrong way mate - Yes we should qualify still from the group (and it's in our hands to do so) and yes we are capable of doing well in Europe this year.

However I'm being realistic with our chances in Europe this season and am prepared to give the team the benefit of the doubt a little this season in Europe. The style of play in Europe does not suit up with our own new style and this will take time to get right. I would love no more than to win back to back European cups, but from a hyperthetical viewpoint, if going out of Europe at a relatively early stage helps us domestically this season to win back the league from the Mancs then I would not be against it!

[meetdoscar 335]

Oh what it must feel like to be so positive . I'll focus on the positives rather than the negatives and just be thankful that we aren't being slammed like the likes of City are. Fact of the matter is, we are still 2nd in the table (with only 4 points yes), but 2 more wins at home and we should be dandy. Then the dynamics of the competition change when the KO phase is initiated. Though it would be stupid to say that we WILL retain the trophy again this year, I hold out hope that we can, at least, get rather far in the competition (how far is down to the luck and what happens on each respective night).

We shall but see.

To support your comment we've played 1 home game and 2 away games so far in UCL and we are second now we play 2 home games and 1 away so our destiny is definitely in our hands. I hope we can reach at least the quarter final stage as it will give our new boys experience and confidence ahead of next season.

[Jase 43,479]

A couple of Champions League stats to throw in...

1. Chelsea's overall record in the Champions League - P115 W58 D32 L25.

2. Chelsea's Champions League record at Stamford Bridge - P57 W36 D16 L5. In group stage - P34 D24 D8 L2. In KO stage - W23 D8 L3.

3. Chelsea's AWAY record in the Champions League - P58 W22 D16 L20. In group stage - P35 W16 D10 L9. In KO stage - P23 W6 D6 L11.

[athovick 3]

RDM need one thing to learn about our defeat especially against atletico and shaktar,,both them play same formation like us 4-2-3-1,,we know they are in good perform atletico (europa league Champion) and shaktar (unbeatean with great winning record and only draw 2),,for this kind of game with in perform team like this and using same formation like us we need different touch or tactic to take this game

about formation... we use this fomation because we know how good it's, we get balance from this formation in attack and defence,so this formation bring us to face a team with good in counter attack and strong in defence,but we have to remember we use this formation after RDM take a charge (compare with atletico and shaktar who use this formation for along time with more solid player) so we still learn to find balance in this formation (the proof is our preseason game,it's look same scenario just like we lost against atletico and shaktar)our 3 ATM (Mazacar) can't do their job to exploit space in opponent defence because they defence with 9 man with each player stay close in middle of their defence this situation make our 2 DM go to high of the pitch to support them and strech opponent defence,,and it leave us so vulnerable in defence with only leave 4 man in Defence..

i think we have to play old chelsea tactic(play long ball crossing into heart their defence,,it will not effective but with patience,,try try and try we can make it but with one important condition we have Killer striker(strong in the air,have good one touch and strong shoot) the advantage of this our defence will more solid and they not always out of possesion,,or we can add on for this with 3 ATM who have good long range shoot,,i like our new system it really enjoy to watch and so far bring us to top of the league,,but when it doesn't working we need plan B to approach some opponent,,so i hope RDM and our player can learn from this this lose to fix our weekness,,this lose will not make us week but it will make us stronger as a team.