Team Balance

[Tomo 21,733]

Peace did a fantastic piece (excuse pun) yesterday about the balance of our team in terms of the technical ability, i thought i will access the balance of our squad in terms of age.

I've put it into 3 groups

19- Very rarely proper ready for first team action in these years. Talent is obvious but still very raw and it's not a given they will make it in the first team.

20-24 Career at the top level is starting to really kick off. Your a trusted member of the squad but still have enough time to grow and get even better. The hunger to succeed is there.

25-29 The peak of a player's career. These years is when you have a perfect mix of experience and hunger and when you hit the very peak of your powers.

30-34 Vastly experienced, not got the hunger you once had but the presence rubs off on the younger players. You can still offer a lot to your team, all be it in a more reduced role than before.

35+ The time when your body can really start to slow down and test you to the limit when it comes to continuing your career. Can't play that often anymore and must be managed with care. But at the same time your wealth of experience can only be a benefit to the younger players in the squad.

Which player is where?

Ignoring the goalkeepers as it's a completely different rule for them, i will put our first team players in the bracket they belong in.

19- McEachran, Piazon, Chalaboh, Lukaku.

20-24 Romeu, Ramires, Mata, Oscar, Marin, Hazard, De Bruyne, Sturridge, Hutchinson, Bertrand, Kakuta.

25-29 Ivanovic, Luiz, Essien, Ramires, Torres, Mikel, Meireles, Cahill.

30+ Cole, Lampard, Malouda, Ferreira, Terry, Benayoun.

Ill cover each bracket one by one and give my views on how we are in that area this season as things stand.

19-

Most players that age won't get that amount of playing time anyway. We have those four sniffing around the first team squad and many more up and coming. This area for me is fine.

20-24

That's our best area at the moment, fantastic numbers there aswell as superb players that can only get better.I can't wait for most of them to climb to the next bracket.

25-29

Now this one is the real concern for me, especially when you consider we need to look at identifying a new spine with our successful one well in their 30's. Not only do we lack numbers in this age bracket we lack quality for a team that wants to challenge for top honours on a regular basis.

It's this age group we should really be looking at to form the spine of the side. Looking at the list however for me only Ivanovic, Luiz and Ramires i could see suitable to that role at this moment in time.

Essien and Torres are not what they use to be while Meireles is just not good enough to be a member of the spine.

Mikel im not too sure is suitable to the way we want to play.

A view that is likely to cause a bit of controversy Cahill, a fantastic signing he has been, is still to convince me he can be a permanent first Xl fixture let alone a member of the spine.

With the rest of our business this summer im hoping we can look at this age range. Cavani and Falcao are the most sought after forwards in Europe for a reason, they could come in and go straight into the new spine straight away.

There has been rumors that we are trying to hyjack Arsenal's Cazorla transfer, he would be ideal a winger and at 27 would add to this age bracket.

With the talent in the 20-24 bracket their is defiantly some brilliant future members of the team 'spine' but 25-29 imo is the age we should look at in that regard as i feel we are lacking some real quality in this gap.

30+

There are only 6 members of this outfield group left, its for that reason i think Malouda and Yossi must stay for at least this season.

Not only are they proven quality but they are experienced and would every handy squad players. Enough experience has left this summer already.

If there is anything we should have learned from laughing at Arsenal these last 7 years is that we cannot put a price on experience.

Conclusion

The conclusion is the future of this club looks very very good, but in the present we need some more players in the 25-29 bracket, it is the most important area of the squad and we are seriously lacking in both numbers and quality in that department.

The only problem is, any high standard player in that bracket is likely to cost alot.

[capriccioso 2,545]

I wouldn't count Essien as someone who's still at his peak, regardless of age. Those injuries have taken a lot out of him, impressive showings in pre season aside he hasn't given any indication that he's back on the straight and narrow in terms of the typical footballers career trajectory.

There aren't nearly enough defensive players in the peak zone.

[OneMoSalah 8,778]

Its harder to bring in players between 25-29 relatively cheap because the fees for younger players these days are insane. I agree we need more players that are about to hit their best footballing years to make more of an impact rather than the youngsters but clubs like Porto and Napoli for instance are going to charge us too much for players like Cavani and Hulk...

Oh and Cap your on, I've missed you no homo......

[capriccioso 2,545]

Its harder to bring in players between 25-29 relatively cheap because the fees for younger players these days are insane. I agree we need more players that are about to hit their best footballing years to make more of an impact rather than the youngsters but clubs like Porto and Napoli for instance are going to charge us too much for players like Cavani and Hulk...

Oh and Cap your on, I've missed you no homo......

I've only been off for 9 hours, 4 of which were spent asleep.

[OneMoSalah 8,778]

I've only been off for 9 hours, 4 of which were spent asleep.

Still its hard for me without you Aussies and Manpe... wherever he may be

[Tomo 21,733]

@capriccioso, fully agree about Essien, which just goes to show our lack of numbers in that age range.

[╫rue Blue 47]

for my opinion too

our choice to fill mikel spot, is still big problem

mikel i dont know, just hopefully he can make big improve form what he shown in preseason, but if just so so or just similiar

that kind of performance absolutely not enough for the team

not just pasive, and lacking of good or quicker pass from him

but his movement too slow to covering the midfield and its so awful to watch

for me, even essien is not that great just like he was, just decent display

but he is the best for mikel spot, can show he playing a lot better than mikel

more stronger, more quicker, better movement

he still the best choice than slow mikel and romeu ( if you hard to give trust to romeu who still kind of little unexperience)

still hope actually, board make addition to fill that spot with the player of group of 25-29 age

if not, our best hope is just essien to hopefully still can getting better

and absolutely mikel, must miles better than pre season form

because that double pivot is look too vital in what kind of playing football rdm wants to play

[Chelsea? 892]

This was partly the reason I said our club was overrated, because we don't seem ready to win trophies. We also really need a striker to score a lot.

When was the last time a ream won a domestic cup without a 20+ goal striker?

[Strike 7,217]

yep. the concern is that we have players of 30+ age and 25- age but not many in between. we need more players who are in or entering their prime years.

we can start with a striker/winger and a right back who are established.

[capriccioso 2,545]

Torres isn't at his peak, either. He's on the decline. Now he may well find his finishing boots this season and make me look an idiot but there's no denying that physically he's not as far ahead of the pack as he was at Liverpool. He's like a big diesel train engine now, that explosive acceleration has left him, though he's still pretty quick when he gets up to top speed. Even players not all that quick, Mikel, for example, could conceivably give Torres a run for his money (pun intended) over a 10-20 metre sprint. We're too quick to group the trajectory of footballers, there are a lot of variables involved. Torres peaked at 24, Drogba peaked at 30. Messi peaked at 20. What is universal though is that decline sets in, at least speed wise, in the early 30s. And then there are some monsters like Seedorf and Giggs who got well into their thirties not losing too much pace.

We have Ivanovic, Luiz, Cahil, Ramires, Mikel and Meireles who are at their peak/still have room to improve. That is a very thin squad to call upon, ideally you need about 10 players in that category and we only have 6.

[Spike 12,049]

Torres isn't at his peak, either. He's on the decline. Now he may well find his finishing boots this season and make me look an idiot but there's no denying that physically he's not as far ahead of the pack as he was at Liverpool. He's like a big diesel train engine now, that explosive acceleration has left him, though he's still pretty quick when he gets up to top speed. Even players not all that quick, Mikel, for example, could conceivably give Torres a run for his money (pun intended) over a 10-20 metre sprint. We're too quick to group the trajectory of footballers, there are a lot of variables involved. Torres peaked at 24, Drogba peaked at 30. Messi peaked at 20. What is universal though is that decline sets in, at least speed wise, in the early 30s. And then there are some monsters like Seedorf and Giggs who got well into their thirties not losing too much pace.

We have Ivanovic, Luiz, Cahil, Ramires, Mikel and Meireles who are at their peak/still have room to improve. That is a very thin squad to call upon, ideally you need about 10 players in that category and we only have 6.

You are joking right? Mikel beating Torres in a sprint? Torres has lost a fair bit of speed since his injuries but his still much, much faster than Mikel.

Giggs has lost a lot of pace, he was very fast in his 20s and not so much now. A better example of someone who hasn't lost pace with age is Javier Zanetti, he was never the fastest guy but he still runs at the same tempo as he did when he was 25.

It doesn't make sense to lump players into a classification 'at their peak/still have room to improve' because they are two contradictory terms. How can they be at their peak but still have potential for improvement? Besides to say any of those players are at their peak is idiotic, we can never know how good these players are till they retire. Only when their days are done we can look back and say he hit his peak at 27 or this guy hit his peak at 35.

[capriccioso 2,545]

You are joking right? Mikel beating Torres in a sprint? Torres has lost a fair bit of speed since his injuries but his still much, much faster than Mikel.

Giggs has lost a lot of pace, he was very fast in his 20s and not so much now. A better example of someone who hasn't lost pace with age is Javier Zanetti, he was never the fastest guy but he still runs at the same tempo as he did when he was 25.

It doesn't make sense to lump players into a classification 'at their peak/still have room to improve' because they are two contradictory terms. How can they be at their peak but still have potential for improvement? Besides to say any of those players are at their peak is idiotic, we can never know how good these players are till they retire. Only when their days are done we can look back and say he hit his peak at 27 or this guy hit his peak at 35.

It was a slight exaggeration, but the point is Torres can't get away from his opponents over 5-10 metre distances. He needs 20+, which is only effective in a Barcelona style counter attack where he's one on one.

Also regarding peaks, no one can say that Drogba was a better player at ~25 than he was at 30. That was his peak, he plateau'd it out for 3-4 years. Messi appears to have plateau'd in the last year or so, he can't get much better. Unless they give him another round of HGH.

[Spike 12,049]

It was a slight exaggeration, but the point is Torres can't get away from his opponents over 5-10 metre distances. He needs 20+, which is only effective in a Barcelona style counter attack where he's one on one.

Also regarding peaks, no one can say that Drogba was a better player at ~25 than he was at 30. That was his peak, he plateau'd it out for 3-4 years. Messi appears to have plateau'd in the last year or so, he can't get much better. Unless they give him another round of HGH.

Nonsense, I bet Torres can beat many a defender in a 5-10 metre distance to say that he can't beat any is a blatant generalisation.

Yes because we can now look back at his career and compare, when he was 25 we had no idea when he was going to peak or if he already had. Besides I have no idea what you are trying to convey with that statement. You have no proof that Messi won't get better just a few observations from the last season. The growth hormones were medicine not performance enhancers, I honestly doubt he still takes them.

[capriccioso 2,545]

Nonsense, I bet Torres can beat many a defender in a 5-10 metre distance to say that he can't beat any is a blatant generalisation.

Yes because we can now look back at his career and compare, when he was 25 we had no idea when he was going to peak or if he already had. Besides I have no idea what you are trying to convey with that statement. You have no proof that Messi won't get better just a few observations from the last season. The growth hormones were medicine not performance enhancers, I honestly doubt he still takes them.

Nonsense, I bet Torres can beat many a defender in a 5-10 metre distance to say that he can't beat any is a blatant generalisation.

Yes because we can now look back at his career and compare, when he was 25 we had no idea when he was going to peak or if he already had. Besides I have no idea what you are trying to convey with that statement. You have no proof that Messi won't get better just a few observations from the last season. The growth hormones were medicine not performance enhancers, I honestly doubt he still takes them.

No they wouldn't dare give him HGH now, it would look far too suspicious if he suddenly put on an inch in height and a few kilo's of muscle. How can Messi improve on his virtually perfect ball control/finishing? All the room he has to improve is perhaps physically and mentally, and even that, I doubt- his tactical knowledge is already immense and he already possesses the stamina (read: EPO) to play 65 games for 5 seasons and only burn out for about one month near the end of the 5 year cycle.

Also regarding Torres we can't know until we take a look at training data. I would still back Mikel over 5 metres as he has longer legs.

[Spike 12,049]

No they wouldn't dare give him HGH now, it would look far too suspicious if he suddenly put on an inch in height and a few kilo's of muscle. How can Messi improve on his virtually perfect ball control/finishing? All the room he has to improve is perhaps physically and mentally, and even that, I doubt- his tactical knowledge is already immense and he already possesses the stamina (read: EPO) to play 65 games for 5 seasons and only burn out for about one month near the end of the 5 year cycle.

Also regarding Torres we can't know until we take a look at training data. I would still back Mikel over 5 metres as he has longer legs.

Simple, the standard of everyone else in football suddenly gets worse while Messi stays the same. Witchcraft at it's finest.

It annoys me when people say Messi was doping, he wasn't. He was using Growth hormones as medicine, i.e. to get healthy. If he had been using them to become a better footballer than it would be doping.

[capriccioso 2,545]

Simple, the standard of everyone else in football suddenly gets worse while Messi stays the same. Witchcraft at it's finest.

It annoys me when people say Messi was doping, he wasn't. He was using Growth hormones as medicine, i.e. to get healthy. If he had been using them to become a better footballer than it would be doping.

But if everyone declines and he stays the same, can that be considered an improvement? I would say no.

Also for a player to play in excess of 75 games a season on average (including internationals and pre season) 5 years running whilst hardly ever getting injured and only looking fatigued for one month towards the end of that 5 year period stretches my belief. Furthermore he does a lot more running than other winger/strikers, because of Barcelona's pressing. And then there are the likes of Xavi, who also turn out for Catalunya (albeit rarely) in addition to Spain and Barcelona. EPO is used widely throughout football, as evidenced by all those sudden cardiac arrests we've seen in recent years, the Juventus doping case in the 90s, and Operacion Puerto.

We'll know when he's about 40. EPO enlarges the head, causes heart disease and cancer, increases the risk of cardiac arrest, etc.

[Spike 12,049]

But if everyone declines and he stays the same, can that be considered an improvement? I would say no.

Also for a player to play in excess of 75 games a season on average (including internationals and pre season) 5 years running whilst hardly ever getting injured and only looking fatigued for one month towards the end of that 5 year period stretches my belief. Furthermore he does a lot more running than other winger/strikers, because of Barcelona's pressing. And then there are the likes of Xavi, who also turn out for Catalunya (albeit rarely) in addition to Spain and Barcelona. EPO is used widely throughout football, as evidenced by all those sudden cardiac arrests we've seen in recent years, the Juventus doping case in the 90s, and Operacion Puerto.

We'll know when he's about 40. EPO enlarges the head, causes heart disease and cancer, increases the risk of cardiac arrest, etc.

You could almost apply that exact paragraph to Frank Lampard.

[capriccioso 2,545]

You could almost apply that exact paragraph to Frank Lampard.

Why does that shock you? We're owned by a Russian mobster and our doctor is Spanish. It would be a surprise if it was the other way.