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The tens of thousands of RW attack adverts about trans inmates getting gender affirming care in prison (which are hyprocritical as the Trump administration did the same thing) are having a large negative impact on not just Harris but hundreds of other Democratic US Senate and US House candidates in most all of the states.

If Harris and the other Democrats do not immediately start a massive national push-back campaign, these attack adverts may well be one of the main drivers (if not THE main late one) of their defeat.

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47 minutes ago, Vesper said:

No matter how much (extraordinary amounts at this point, over the past few years) evidence and risk analysis that we provide about the profound systemic dangers that Trump poses, you are just going to say 'I just do not see it' and then engage in typical sea-lioning.

Yes because it is put like its the end of the world. 

Which I don't see that. 

Now Trump being Trump that's another thing. He is very arrogant and always wants his way. Hence why he tend to fire many people that work from him like we saw in the Apprentice. 

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These Key Swing States Don’t Count Mail Ballots In Advance—Results May Take Days

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/10/23/these-key-swing-states-dont-count-mail-ballots-in-advance-results-may-take-days/

Topline

Americans may be waiting days to know the outcome of the presidential election if the vote count is as close in battleground states as polling suggests, as several key swing states don’t allow officials to start processing or counting mail-in ballots until Election Day—meaning it could take days to know who won.

Key Facts

Polling suggests Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump are neck-and-neck in battleground states, suggesting it could take a while to determine a winner if it comes down to a small number of votes.

According to a polling average compiled by FiveThirtyEight, Harris is less than two points ahead of Trump in the polls nationally (48.1% support versus 46.3% support) and polling in the battleground states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin suggest the candidates are virtually tied in the states that are most important for the Electoral College.

While in-person votes are reported quicker on election night, mail-in ballots take longer to count, which Trump took advantage of in 2020 to undermine faith in the election results, claiming victory on election night before all ballots were counted.

His campaign also made baseless fraud claims involving mail-in ballots and challenged how the votes were tabulated, including by filing lawsuits taking issue with the counting process.

If election results prove to be razor-thin, voters should not expect to know the winner of a state until all ballots are counted or reputable outlets call a winner based on the available results, and it’s possible initial results could show one candidate ahead, only for the other candidate to ultimately be called the winner after more votes are tallied.

Slowest Battleground States For Counting Mail Votes

Pennsylvania: The state will be one of the slowest to release results from mail-in ballots because officials can’t start processing absentee ballots—taking steps like removing ballots from envelopes and verifying voter signatures—until the morning of Election Day, and cannot record any vote totals until after polls close at 8 p.m.

Wisconsin: Wisconsin also doesn’t start processing its mail ballots until Election Day, meaning it will take longer to report the results.

Battleground States That Start Counting On Election Day—but Should Release Results Quicker

Georgia: Officials in Georgia have already started tabulating mail-in ballots—it’s allowed starting the third Monday before Election Day—and ballots can start being counted at 7 a.m. on Election Day under state law. That means there will likely be at least partial results to report by the time polls close. The state election board passed new rules that could have delayed the tabulation process, including adding a hand-count requirement for ballots, but the Georgia Supreme Court ruled Tuesday those requirements will remain blocked for now.

North Carolina: The state starts processing mail-in ballots before Election Day and will begin counting its absentee ballots on Election Day before the polls close—anywhere between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. under state law, with counties adopting resolutions before Election Day that state when they’ll specifically start counting. The state’s election board said in February its processes mean absentee ballots returned before Election Day should be counted by that evening, though ballots returned on Election Day could take longer. North Carolina passed a new voting law that requires officials to hold off on counting in-person early voting ballots until polls close on Election Day, however, which could slightly delay those results by around an hour on election night.

Battleground States Counting Mail Ballots Before Election Day

Arizona: The state starts counting early mail-in ballots when they’re received, even if that’s prior to Election Day. The state’s counting could still get slowed down by a regulation that requires officials to wait until polls are closed and all voters have left until they collect ballots that were left in ballot drop boxes on Election Day, however. That could be a sizable share of the vote, with the Maricopa County Recorder’s Office noting those ballots made up 20% of all the county’s ballots in the 2022 general election. Election results could also be slowed down as officials have to process Election Day mail-in ballots and verify signatures before sending them off to be counted, which Maricopa County—the state’s most populous county—said took until the Sunday after Election Day to complete in 2022.

Michigan: Michigan lawmakers passed a new law after the 2020 election that now allows absentee votes to start being counted eight days before Election Day, or the day before Election Day for towns with fewer than 5,000 people. That means many results are likely to be quickly reported in the state once polls close.

Nevada: Unlike in 2020, the state now allows mail-in ballots to start being counted 15 days before Election Day, and officials can count ballots as they come in on Election Day. That means results are likely to come out more quickly than in 2020, when it took several days before the state’s race was called for President Joe Biden.

What We Don’t Know

How long it will take exactly for mail-in votes to be counted. Voters are likely to be less reliant on mail-in voting in this election than they were in 2020, when many voters cast their ballots by mail due to the COVID-19 pandemic. It took days to call that presidential election as a result, as Biden pulled off only a narrow win that required counting most of the mail-in ballots to call. That being said, states are still reporting high numbers of requests for absentee ballots—including approximately 716,000 in Wisconsin and 1.9 million in Pennsylvania, the two slowest states for reporting—suggesting ballots could still take a while to count.

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14 minutes ago, Vesper said:

These Key Swing States Don’t Count Mail Ballots In Advance—Results May Take Days

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/10/23/these-key-swing-states-dont-count-mail-ballots-in-advance-results-may-take-days/

Topline

Americans may be waiting days to know the outcome of the presidential election if the vote count is as close in battleground states as polling suggests, as several key swing states don’t allow officials to start processing or counting mail-in ballots until Election Day—meaning it could take days to know who won.

Key Facts

Polling suggests Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump are neck-and-neck in battleground states, suggesting it could take a while to determine a winner if it comes down to a small number of votes.

According to a polling average compiled by FiveThirtyEight, Harris is less than two points ahead of Trump in the polls nationally (48.1% support versus 46.3% support) and polling in the battleground states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin suggest the candidates are virtually tied in the states that are most important for the Electoral College.

While in-person votes are reported quicker on election night, mail-in ballots take longer to count, which Trump took advantage of in 2020 to undermine faith in the election results, claiming victory on election night before all ballots were counted.

His campaign also made baseless fraud claims involving mail-in ballots and challenged how the votes were tabulated, including by filing lawsuits taking issue with the counting process.

If election results prove to be razor-thin, voters should not expect to know the winner of a state until all ballots are counted or reputable outlets call a winner based on the available results, and it’s possible initial results could show one candidate ahead, only for the other candidate to ultimately be called the winner after more votes are tallied.

Slowest Battleground States For Counting Mail Votes

Pennsylvania: The state will be one of the slowest to release results from mail-in ballots because officials can’t start processing absentee ballots—taking steps like removing ballots from envelopes and verifying voter signatures—until the morning of Election Day, and cannot record any vote totals until after polls close at 8 p.m.

Wisconsin: Wisconsin also doesn’t start processing its mail ballots until Election Day, meaning it will take longer to report the results.

Battleground States That Start Counting On Election Day—but Should Release Results Quicker

Georgia: Officials in Georgia have already started tabulating mail-in ballots—it’s allowed starting the third Monday before Election Day—and ballots can start being counted at 7 a.m. on Election Day under state law. That means there will likely be at least partial results to report by the time polls close. The state election board passed new rules that could have delayed the tabulation process, including adding a hand-count requirement for ballots, but the Georgia Supreme Court ruled Tuesday those requirements will remain blocked for now.

North Carolina: The state starts processing mail-in ballots before Election Day and will begin counting its absentee ballots on Election Day before the polls close—anywhere between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. under state law, with counties adopting resolutions before Election Day that state when they’ll specifically start counting. The state’s election board said in February its processes mean absentee ballots returned before Election Day should be counted by that evening, though ballots returned on Election Day could take longer. North Carolina passed a new voting law that requires officials to hold off on counting in-person early voting ballots until polls close on Election Day, however, which could slightly delay those results by around an hour on election night.

Battleground States Counting Mail Ballots Before Election Day

Arizona: The state starts counting early mail-in ballots when they’re received, even if that’s prior to Election Day. The state’s counting could still get slowed down by a regulation that requires officials to wait until polls are closed and all voters have left until they collect ballots that were left in ballot drop boxes on Election Day, however. That could be a sizable share of the vote, with the Maricopa County Recorder’s Office noting those ballots made up 20% of all the county’s ballots in the 2022 general election. Election results could also be slowed down as officials have to process Election Day mail-in ballots and verify signatures before sending them off to be counted, which Maricopa County—the state’s most populous county—said took until the Sunday after Election Day to complete in 2022.

Michigan: Michigan lawmakers passed a new law after the 2020 election that now allows absentee votes to start being counted eight days before Election Day, or the day before Election Day for towns with fewer than 5,000 people. That means many results are likely to be quickly reported in the state once polls close.

Nevada: Unlike in 2020, the state now allows mail-in ballots to start being counted 15 days before Election Day, and officials can count ballots as they come in on Election Day. That means results are likely to come out more quickly than in 2020, when it took several days before the state’s race was called for President Joe Biden.

What We Don’t Know

How long it will take exactly for mail-in votes to be counted. Voters are likely to be less reliant on mail-in voting in this election than they were in 2020, when many voters cast their ballots by mail due to the COVID-19 pandemic. It took days to call that presidential election as a result, as Biden pulled off only a narrow win that required counting most of the mail-in ballots to call. That being said, states are still reporting high numbers of requests for absentee ballots—including approximately 716,000 in Wisconsin and 1.9 million in Pennsylvania, the two slowest states for reporting—suggesting ballots could still take a while to count.


It did n't take days in 2020.
Wednesday noon European time it was finalised.

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1 hour ago, Fernando said:

Yes because it is put like its the end of the world. 

The chances of the geo-political, geo-military, and geo-economic globally interlocked systems becoming negatively-impacted (potentially to massive levels) and starting to go into real crisis modes are profoundly greater under a Trump administration, (especially if the Republicans control all three branches of the American government, ie Judicial (they already control the SCOTUS by a 6 to 3 margin), Congress (both chambers, Senate and House), and the Executive branch (Trump as the POTUS), versus the Democrats controlling at least one (the Executive, ie Harris as POTUS).

The US Senate almost certainly flips from Democratic contol to Republican control. WV and MT are locks (especially WV, as Jim Justice, the Republican cuurent WV governor, is up over the Democrat by over 40 points) to flip Blue to Red.

That puts the US Senate, if no other seats change, at 51 R, 49 D. The Democrats are also in trouble of losing other seats (especially OH, put also, the polls are now going against (to varying degrees) the Democratic incumbent Senators in WI, MI, NV, and PA). AZ is a likely Democratic win (so stays Blue), and I think the Dems also hold onto NV, but MI, and especially OH and PA are in real danger now of flipping Blue to Red.

The only chances the Dems have of flipping a Red Senate seat are in FL (do not see this happening atm at all) and then TX (also a VERY hard pull, especially as TX is so damn huge that even a 3 point lead is hundreds of thousands of votes).

The US House is a coin toss. 435 races , but only 30 to 35 max are competitive. Hello gerrymandering, especially the illegal ones in WI, NC, and FL. Those 3 states have maps that are illegal in terms of the letter of the law, BUT the RW Republican-controlled state supreme courts have allowed the Republican gerrymandered district maps drawn by RW (also gerrymandered) Republican-controlled state legislatures (so double RW gerrymanders, at both state and federal legislative levels) to stand.

The Democrats need to win a net +6 seats (atm, it is actually +4, see below) to regain control.

Currently, the Republicans hold a slim majority with 220 seats to Democrats’ 212, with three vacancies.

The three vacant seats have been held by one Republican and two Democrats. Each party is likely to maintain control of those respective seats — meaning that Democrats need a net gain of four seats to win a majority of the US House seats.

Now, that +4 is mathematically correct, BUT in reality the Dems need a +7 or even a +8 net win to regain control of the US House in real life outcomes, as the NC US House map has been gerrymandered to an insane extent post 2022 midterms. Currently the NC US House delegation is tied, 7 Dems, 7 Repubs, BUT the new RW-drawn (and approved by a now flipped to RW controlled NC state supreme court) map will flip it to at least 10 Repubs, only 4 Dems, or perhaps (fairly likely) even 11 Repbs, only 3 Dems.

I am posting this granular level analysis (with process/historical backgrounding to backstop my positings) to show all here what is going on in terms of actual races, not just tossing out 'wish-fulfilment' drive-by comments.

 

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53 minutes ago, cosmicway said:


It did n't take days in 2020.
Wednesday noon European time it was finalised.

This is not 2020 (which itself was more than a little hellish, for example slates of fake electors, the January 6 attempted coup, hundreds of lawsuits, including 70+ major ones, which were all, save one, lost by Trump, etc etc etc).

The Republicans (unless it is a clear Electoral College win for Trump, and especially if somehow he win the popular vote for added gravitas) are going to toss thousands of spanners in the works at every level, from local precinct to city to county to state to national levels.

Trump will immediately claim victory no matter what, and there are so many structural weak points in the entire hyper-complicated process where true chaos and skulduggery can occur. I fear it is going to become the shit-show of shit-shows no matter what.

Edited by Vesper
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1 hour ago, cosmicway said:

The countries of the world that have never experienced dictatorships are:

From the British empire: UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand
From continental Europe: Sweden, Finland and Switzerland
Others: Israel and the USA

Will USA break the duck ?

How far back are you going?

Also, Netanyahu atm is basically a dictator.

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fd396b4657a180add0b0c38562b36c2a.png

The Gender Divide in America’s Election: Why Working-Class Men Are Flocking to Trump

Harold Meyerson 25th October 2024

The 2024 presidential race reveals a striking gender divide, as working-class men gravitate toward Trump while women favour Harris.

https://www.socialeurope.eu/the-gender-divide-in-americas-election-why-working-class-men-are-flocking-to-trump

shutterstock_2512956437.jpg.avif

This year’s presidential election appears to be among the closest in American history, but it’s already historic for the wide divergences – in presidential preference and larger values – between men and women. A Suffolk University/USA Today Poll released Wednesday shows Donald Trump leading among male voters by a 53-to-37 per cent margin, while Kamala Harris leads among women by a mirror-image 53 to 36 per cent margin. (Overall, the poll has Harris ahead by just 1 percentage point, mirroring virtually every other poll, which shows the race to be tied.)

Harris’s greatest hurdle is winning over working-class men. College graduates clearly favour her; those with postgraduate or professional degrees favoured her inercent margin, while those who went to a trade school (which offers instruction in blue-collar jobs) favoured Trump by a 63-to- one recent poll by a 63-to-29 p25 per cent margin.

In the mid-20th century, working-class men provided the core of the Democrats’ voting base, the epicentre of the New Deal coalition that anchored the party from 1932 through 1968. In the three decades following World War II, as a consequence of high rates of unionisation and the absence of foreign competition, which could bring down domestic wages, working-class men often made enough to support their families even if their spouses didn’t work outside the home. They often made enough to become homeowners. (In fact, there’s a historic correlation between cities with high rates of unionisation and high rates of home ownership. In the decades following World War II, the city with the highest rate of working-class homeownership was Detroit, centre of the unionised auto industry. Today, it’s Las Vegas, centre of the unionised hotel industry.)

But the economy that enabled working-class men to support families and become homeowners has largely vanished from the American landscape. With union membership reduced to a bare 6 per cent of the private-sector workforce (down from roughly 40 per cent in the mid-20th century), with technological and robotic production reducing the need for workers in manufacturing, construction, and perhaps soon in transportation (all male-dominated occupational sectors), and with much formerly U.S.-based production offshored to other nations, the kind of remunerative blue-collar or manual labour jobs that enabled their grandfathers to support their families and perhaps send their kids to college no longer exist. And as the blue-collar middle class of their grandfathers’ generation has vanished, the income and wealth gap between college graduates and workers with only a secondary education (high school) has widened precipitously.

The very legitimate economic anxieties of working-class men appear to be even greater among young working-class men, who see a future in which their skills may be in even less demand. They also see an economy in which remunerative jobs in such female-dominated occupations as teaching and healthcare will likely expand, not contract, even as the professional jobs historically closed to women are becoming filled with just as many females as males.

All this has left no small number of young American men – predominantly working-class – prey to the anti-feminist, hypermasculine appeals of the far-right. The two speakers at this summer’s Republican National Convention given the task of bringing Donald Trump onstage for his climactic acceptance speech were the president of the cage-fighting mixed martial arts league and the most celebrated actor in what passes for professional wrestling, Hulk Hogan. And last week, while speaking in the swing state of Pennsylvania, Trump went into a 12-minute digression about the leading professional golfer of the 1950s and ’60s, Arnold Palmer, and the reputed size of his penis. In a sense, Trump was confirming a thesis put forth in a 2020 paper in the Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin by Eric Knowles (a psychology professor at NYU) and Sarah DiMuccio (a researcher with a doctorate in social psychology) that compared data on support for Trump with data on male insecurity.

In particular, Knowles and DiMuccio looked at the kind of data that generally eludes political scientists and political reporters (present company included). They sought out the Google Trends search data for the 12 months immediately preceding the 2016 election for erectile dysfunction, penis size, penis enlargement, hair loss, hair plugs, testosterone, and Viagra—gender-affirming care, of a sort—and labelled them as indices of Precarious Manhood. They produced a map of the United States showing where those Google searches were most common (Appalachia and the Deep South). And by running the standard statistical regression analyses, they found a strong predictive correlation between the rates of those Google searches and the votes for Donald Trump in 2016 (though, of course, those were also votes against Hillary Clinton).

As I’m more of a Marxian than a Freudian, I think the roots of this anxiety are economic, not psychological. That said, Harris’s initial economic platform stressed bolstering what she termed “the care economy.” It called for boosting the tax credit to families with children (to $6000 a year for families with children under the age of one), providing affordable childcare and free pre-kindergarten, and more recently, providing assistance to families that have to care for their elders as well. All necessary, progressive and long-overdue measures of social provision, but what their appeal is to young men who believe they’ll lack the monetary wherewithal to form families or long-term relationships is, to put it mildly, unclear.

I’ve argued that Harris needs to boost what I’ve called “the build economy” alongside the care economy, stressing her commitment to creating remunerative jobs in blue-collar occupations. She has enlarged her agenda to include some such proposals, such as providing the financial resources to build 3 million new homes over the next four years. However, she has chiefly advanced this as a way to address the nation’s very real housing shortage while pointing out only secondarily that it would also create many thousands of construction jobs.

The drift of working-class young men to the far right isn’t solely an American problem, alas; it’s apparent in most nations with developed economies that are transitioning from production to information-age employment. Absent the kind of economic policies that can provide such young men with hope of a secure future, they’ll be prey to demagogues who create scapegoats against whom they can rage. Donald Trump is providing a masterclass in such scapegoating as Election Day draws near; it may yet return him to the White House.

3a8b5ec324de8b16b867c43b590811dc.png

 

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21 minutes ago, Vesper said:

The chances of the geo-political, geo-military, and geo-economic globally interlocked systems becoming negatively-impacted (potentially to massive levels) and starting to go into real crisis modes are profoundly greater under a Trump administration, (especially if the Republicans control all three branches of the American government, ie Judicial (they already control the SCOTUS by a 6 to 3 margin), Congress (both chambers, Senate and House), and the Executive branch (Trump as the POTUS), versus the Democrats controlling at least one (the Executive, ie Harris as POTUS).

 

So basically your concern is that the USA is run by Republicans? 

But the chance of geo-political escalation is there? How so since you and I agree that at this moment the biggest threat which is Russia, Trump will allow to dominate Ukraine. Basically put an end to that war. 

Now we have to see what he will do with Israel at this time. Maybe push for the state solution? 

The issue will be Iran what he will do....I think nothing. Because Iran is ally of Russia and since Russia is going to continue to get what they want no one will touch them, not even Trump. 

Geo economic, I thought we was good with Trump? And oil was cheaper under him? 

 

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UK could hand over potential war crimes evidence collected by RAF spy planes over Gaza

Evidence of potential war crimes collected by British spy planes operating over Gaza could be handed to the International Criminal Court, the UK has confirmed.

 

A spokesperson said that the UK would consider a request from international investigators to hand over any evidence the RAF spy planes have collected that might reveal evidence of war crimes.

The spokesperson said: "In line with our international obligations, we would consider any formal request from the International Criminal Court to provide information relating to investigations into war crimes."

The prosecutor of the International Criminal Court in May said he is seeking arrest warrants against Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, and Yoav Gallant, the defence minister, for alleged war crimes.

Mr Netanyahu and Mr Gallant are also accused of "starvation of civilians as a method of warfare" and "intentionally directing attacks against a civilian population" from 8 October last year 

Sky News

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5 hours ago, Fernando said:

January 6 was the people that did that not Trump. But I get it, the influence he had on these people was big.....

Yes I feel the same with Ukraine, Trump will help accelerate that conflict to a finish. 

And red flags I see it, but I still don't fathom what big end of the world catastrophe he will bring? More likely he gets killed half way then anything else. 

Now what will be the outcome of a Harris win? 

Accelerate a Putin win. His relationship with that dictator is weird to say the least. Wouldn’t surprise me if Putin feels encouraged and keeps going.

you clearly never received the full picture of Jan 6, which is the problem we have these days.

Nyt reported extensively about how much planning it took. The lack of national guard or any police response hours after it started…. Everything was planned and Trump speech as-is right there was pretty damning.

”fake electors” plot was part of it as well. Lots of information on it as it is part of the the federal lawsuit.

Fox News will never show any of it just like they will not show the raw footage. All of that can be found, but people *receive* their news nowadays not look for it.

I used to live in DC and there was more policing on a “tourist day” Sunday than that day.  

Edited by robsblubot
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Trump mocked for claiming 29,000 supporters flocked to see him work fryer at McDonald’s

Donald Trump has been mocked for claiming 29,000 supporters flocked to see him work the fryer at McDonald’s during his campaign stunt last weekend.

“We had 29,000 people surrounding it. We weren’t sure if we were able to get out,” Trump boasted at a rally in Las Vegas on Thursday night.

Witnesses said ''The restaurant was closed for 7 hours and lost hundreds of thousands of dollars''  Another said “There were maybe a hundred people or so outside around the mcdonalds [sic], not a small college football stadium capacity crowd.”

Trump has long become consumed with the size of his campaign rally crowds.

He falsely declared earlier in the campaign that his rally on January 6, 2021 – prior to the attack on the US Capitol – drew in a crowd that rivaled the size of the crowd that Martin Luther King Jr drew to watch his “I have a dream” speech in August 1963.

AP News

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15 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Accelerate a Putin win. His relationship with that dictator is weird to say the least. Wouldn’t surprise me if Putin feels encouraged and keeps going.

you clearly never received the full picture of Jan 6, which is the problem we have these days.

Nyt reported extensively about how much planning it took. The lack of national guard or any police response hours after it started…. Everything was planned and Trump speech as-is right there was pretty damning.

”fake electors” plot was part of it as well. Lots of information on it as it is part of the the federal lawsuit.

Fox News will never show any of it just like they will not show the raw footage. All of that can be found, but people *receive* their news nowadays not look for it.

I used to live in DC and there was more policing on a “tourist day” Sunday than that day.  

Yes I have not received the full picture of that January 6. But reading from you it does sounds insane. As part of someone who lives there I believe your credibility. 

Based on this it is a concern. Trump and his shenanigans like Jan 6 and Harris with the continuation of a Biden government.....

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Just now, Fernando said:

Yes I have not received the full picture of that January 6. But reading from you it does sounds insane. As part of someone who lives there I believe your credibility. 

Based on this it is a concern. Trump and his shenanigans like Jan 6 and Harris with the continuation of a Biden government.....

For the record, I really dislike Biden as president. He was a (career) politician for a different time… weak in general esp on immigration. Harris did not do a good job separating herself from some of his policies, mostly inactions of the president — I’m sure she’d act differently in certain cases.

inflation has little to do with Biden though. Perhaps a bit more with Trump and his tax breaks, but really it was the pandemic.

Democratic Party does not get how unpopular ID politics can be. Think there is plenty of evidence of that without needing to do any research.

Like I said, the issue I have with Trump is simple: he should’ve been disqualified from running.

it’s akin to a team in sports which lose then cheat to overturn the result. Say Chile fiasco at the Maracanan back then.

 

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1 hour ago, Vesper said:

How far back are you going?

Also, Netanyahu atm is basically a dictator.

I go as far as 19th-20th century.
Netanyahu is elected by the Israelis and Likud has won and ost - Israel was always a democracy.
In the Arab world there are no democracies and the concept is alien.

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