Politics & Stuff

[cosmicway 1,333]

I used to believe that only people with higher education should vote.
That way entities like Trump, Hitler, Saddam Hussein would stand no chance.
This is the system proposed by Plato.
Plato was a conservative and in fact the son of one of the thirty tyrants of Athens.
But the Athenians did not hold this against him because his father, Kritias, was the good guy among the thirty tyrants.
The others had him executed because he wanted to democratize the system - so in fact the Athenians eventually killed 29 tyrants, not thirty.
Plato's teachings were lost for centuries. Other systems prevailed, Roman empire, Tamerlan, Genghis Khan ... until eventually the age of enlightenment came.
But now it was the Tories against the Whigs.
The Whigs wanted universal suffrage so as to manage to win an election.
The Tories wanted to keep the pocket boroughs and they were into milk snatching and other Tory things.
About Plato's cultural elit nobody gave a thought and became nobody's political platform.
So it continues to this day, with universal suffrage having won in the meantime.

There are things against Plato's system though if we think about it carefully.
Initially the elections will be elections between softies of either party.
The extremist and the demagogue will have no chance.
But next ?
Next the cultural elits of the two parties will coalesce, forget their ideological differences and oppress the rest.
A Soros kind of system, with Thunberg, plastic bags, property tax.

So it does n't work either way.

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by cosmicway

[Fulham Broadway 16,962]

6 Ways Hitler was better than Trump

“1. He fought for his country. 2. He never used a teleprompter. 3. He was nice to dogs. 4. He wrote his own books. 5. He never played golf. 6. He wasn’t a big fat slob.”

John Cleese on X

[YorkshireBlue 3,126]

3 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

6 Ways Hitler was better than Trump

“1. He fought for his country. 2. He never used a teleprompter. 3. He was nice to dogs. 4. He wrote his own books. 5. He never played golf. 6. He wasn’t a big fat slob.”

John Cleese on X

Wtf, to compare these two is fucking ridiculous 

[cosmicway 1,333]

19 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Wtf, to compare these two is fucking ridiculous 

Trump does n't have the makings to become a world dictator.
He can however make it easy for Russia - China to become world dictators.

[YorkshireBlue 3,126]

19 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

Trump does n't have the makings to become a world dictator.
He can however make it easy for Russia - China to become world dictators.

What does that have to do about comparing a mass murderer to some one snow flakes are offended by? 

[robsblubot 3,555]

6 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

What does that have to do about comparing a mass murderer to some one snow flakes are offended by? 

Tbh, I think you are missing the point with Trump. He is 100% dictator and tried really hard to be one in his first term. He had some success considering he went against old and established democratic institutions. Most people couldn't care less about what he says... he's an idiot.

I don't like the comparisons either, but a mandatory question would be: does a dictator have the power to commit mass murder on a whim? it gets a bit nuanced, but compared to president in a democracy, it wouldn't surprise me. Does the world want another Russia?

[cosmicway 1,333]

14 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

What does that have to do about comparing a mass murderer to some one snow flakes are offended by? 

There are many who are fans of Hitler.
The witchfinder general for example (starring Vincent Price).
It's not something extraordinary.

[Vesper 29,143]

4 hours ago, cosmicway said:

Plato was a conservative and in fact the son of one of the thirty tyrants of Athens.
But the Athenians did not hold this against him because his father, Kritias, was the good guy among the thirty tyrants.

https://iep.utm.edu/plato/

Little can be known about Plato’s early life. According to Diogenes, whose testimony is notoriously unreliable, Plato’s parents were Ariston and Perictione (or Potone—see D. L. 3.1). Both sides of the family claimed to trace their ancestry back to Poseidon (D.L. 3.1). Diogenes’ report that Plato’s birth was the result of Ariston’s rape of Perictione (D.L. 3.1) is a good example of the unconfirmed gossip in which Diogenes so often indulges. We can be confident that Plato also had two older brothers, Glaucon and Adeimantus, and a sister, Potone, by the same parents (see D.L. 3.4). (W. K. C. Guthrie, A History of Greek Philosophy, vol. 4, 10 n. 4 argues plausibly that Glaucon and Adeimantus were Plato’s older siblings.) After Ariston’s death, Plato’s mother married her uncle, Pyrilampes (in Plato’s Charmides, we are told that Pyrilampes was Charmides’ uncle, and Charmides was Plato’s mother’s brother), with whom she had another son, Antiphon, Plato’s half-brother (see Plato, Parmenides 126a-b).

Plato came from one of the wealthiest and most politically active families in Athens. Their political activities, however, are not seen as laudable ones by historians. One of Plato’s uncles (Charmides) was a member of the notorious “Thirty Tyrants,” who overthrew the Athenian democracy in 404 B.C.E. Charmides’ own uncle, Critias, was the leader of the Thirty. Plato’s relatives were not exclusively associated with the oligarchic faction in Athens, however. His stepfather Pyrilampes was said to have been a close associate of Pericles, when he was the leader of the democratic faction.

Plato’s actual given name was apparently Aristocles, after his grandfather. “Plato” seems to have started as a nickname (for platos, or “broad”), perhaps first given to him by his wrestling teacher for his physique, or for the breadth of his style, or even the breadth of his forehead (all given in D.L. 3.4). Although the name Aristocles was still given as Plato’s name on one of the two epitaphs on his tomb (see D.L. 3.43), history knows him as Plato.

[YorkshireBlue 3,126]

27 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Tbh, I think you are missing the point with Trump. He is 100% dictator and tried really hard to be one in his first term. He had some success considering he went against old and established democratic institutions. Most people couldn't care less about what he says... he's an idiot.

I don't like the comparisons either, but a mandatory question would be: does a dictator have the power to commit mass murder on a whim? it gets a bit nuanced, but compared to president in a democracy, it wouldn't surprise me. Does the world want another Russia?

I'm not missing anything lol, I am from England, I live here and I know nothing about the man and couldn't care less about our politics never mind Americas and don't need too either, all I know is when I watch him he makes me chuckle he's like a man sized umpa lumpa

[cosmicway 1,333]

12 minutes ago, Vesper said:

https://iep.utm.edu/plato/

Little can be known about Plato’s early life. According to Diogenes, whose testimony is notoriously unreliable, Plato’s parents were Ariston and Perictione (or Potone—see D. L. 3.1). Both sides of the family claimed to trace their ancestry back to Poseidon (D.L. 3.1). Diogenes’ report that Plato’s birth was the result of Ariston’s rape of Perictione (D.L. 3.1) is a good example of the unconfirmed gossip in which Diogenes so often indulges. We can be confident that Plato also had two older brothers, Glaucon and Adeimantus, and a sister, Potone, by the same parents (see D.L. 3.4). (W. K. C. Guthrie, A History of Greek Philosophy, vol. 4, 10 n. 4 argues plausibly that Glaucon and Adeimantus were Plato’s older siblings.) After Ariston’s death, Plato’s mother married her uncle, Pyrilampes (in Plato’s Charmides, we are told that Pyrilampes was Charmides’ uncle, and Charmides was Plato’s mother’s brother), with whom she had another son, Antiphon, Plato’s half-brother (see Plato, Parmenides 126a-b).

Plato came from one of the wealthiest and most politically active families in Athens. Their political activities, however, are not seen as laudable ones by historians. One of Plato’s uncles (Charmides) was a member of the notorious “Thirty Tyrants,” who overthrew the Athenian democracy in 404 B.C.E. Charmides’ own uncle, Critias, was the leader of the Thirty. Plato’s relatives were not exclusively associated with the oligarchic faction in Athens, however. His stepfather Pyrilampes was said to have been a close associate of Pericles, when he was the leader of the democratic faction.

Plato’s actual given name was apparently Aristocles, after his grandfather. “Plato” seems to have started as a nickname (for platos, or “broad”), perhaps first given to him by his wrestling teacher for his physique, or for the breadth of his style, or even the breadth of his forehead (all given in D.L. 3.4). Although the name Aristocles was still given as Plato’s name on one of the two epitaphs on his tomb (see D.L. 3.43), history knows him as Plato.

Was Critias his great uncle ?
But he was a cross-bencher to the tyrants so they offed his head.
So Plato's family was not considered a junta family, rather something like the family of modern day Mitsotakis.
 

[cosmicway 1,333]

2 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

I'm not missing anything lol, I am from England, I live here and I know nothing about the man and couldn't care less about our politics never mind Americas and don't need too either, all I know is when I watch him he makes me chuckle he's like a man sized umpa lumpa

I thought Yorskhsire was Scotland.

[YorkshireBlue 3,126]

4 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

I thought Yorskhsire was Scotland.

No where near 🤣

[Vesper 29,143]

12 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

No where near 🤣

cosmic is winding you up m8, he knows damn well where Yorkshire is, lolol

[robsblubot 3,555]

48 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

I'm not missing anything lol, I am from England, I live here and I know nothing about the man and couldn't care less about our politics never mind Americas and don't need too either, all I know is when I watch him he makes me chuckle he's like a man sized umpa lumpa

That used to be all I knew once... good times.

[Vesper 29,143]

2 hours ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Wtf, to compare these two is fucking ridiculous 

Donald Trump's history with Adolf Hitler and his Nazi writings: ANALYSIS

Even after backlash, Trump again echoed his words at a campaign rally.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trumps-history-adolf-hitler-nazi-writings-analysis/story?id=105810745

 

At his campaign rally in Iowa this week, Donald Trump once again broke new ground, becoming the first leading presidential candidate to find it necessary to insist he had never read the most infamous book of the 20th century.

"I never read 'Mein Kampf,'" Trump said, referring to Adolf Hitler's manifesto ("My Struggle") that provided the philosophical basis for Nazi Germany and, ultimately, the murder of more than 6 million Jews in the Holocaust.

This was the first time Trump had invoked Hitler's name and the title of his memoir at a political rally, but there have been multiple reports over the years of Trump expressing a keen interest in, even admiration for, Hitler's rule over Nazi Germany.

In the past, he's actually acknowledged owning a copy of the book.

Trump's denial that he had read Hitler's memoir came after he has made a series of incendiary remarks in recent weeks referring to his political opponents as "vermin" and saying illegal immigrants are "poisoning the blood of our country."

There's no question that language echoes that Hitler used to describe his enemies, but there may have been some question about whether Trump knew he was using the same words Hitler used to justify his murderous and genocidal rule of Nazi Germany.

Now, after backlash that his words echoed Hitler's, however, there is no doubt.

"They said Hitler said that," Trump said Tuesday after he again told the crowd in Iowa that immigrants are "poisoning the blood" of America.

After insisting Hitler used the words "in a much different way," Trump went on to make the "blood" reference again. "It's true. They're destroying the blood of the country, they're destroying the fabric of our country, and we're going to have to get them out."

In other words, Trump's response when criticized for using Hitler's language was to acknowledge the criticism and then to use it again. Whether he is telling the truth about not ever reading "Mein Kampf," there have been multiple reports of Trump privately admiring Hitler.

As president, Trump reportedly complained that America's military leaders were not "totally loyal" to him, telling his chief of staff, retired Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, "Why can't you be like the German generals?"

As reported in "The Divider: Trump in the White House, 2017-2021" by Peter Baker and Susan Glasser, Kelly responded by pointing out Nazi generals "tried to kill Hitler three times and almost pulled it off."

And as I reported in "Tired of Winning: Donald Trump and the End of the Grand Old Party," Trump boasted to a Republican congressman that German Chancellor Angela Merkel had told him there was "only one" leader in history who had attracted crowds as large as Trump.

"She told me she was amazed at the size of the crowds that came to see me speak," Trump told the Republican congressman. "She said she could never get crowds like that. In fact, she told me that there was only one other political leader who ever got crowds as big as mine."

The Republican congressman, a close ally of Trump's, couldn't tell whether Trump knew that Merkel was referring to Hitler, who, of course, attracted massive crowds throughout his rule of Nazi Germany.

"And I'm thinking," the congressman told me while recounting his interaction with Trump, "you knew who she is talking about, right?"

Back in 1990 -- decades before he got into politics, Trump reportedly acknowledged owning a copy of "Mein Kampf." The admission came in an interview with Vanity Fair shortly after his divorce from his first wife, Ivana. Here's what the magazine reported:

"Last April, perhaps in a surge of Czech nationalism, Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler's collected speeches, "My New Order," which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed. Kennedy now guards a copy of "My New Order" in a closet at his office, as if it were a grenade."

Vanity Fair reporter Marie Brenner asked Trump if his cousin had given up a copy of the book to him. She wrote this is how Trump responded:

"Actually, it was my friend Marty Davis from Paramount who gave me a copy of 'Mein Kampf,' and he's a Jew," Trump told Brenner.

Brenner then asked Marty Davis whether he gave Trump a copy of the book.

"I did give him a book about Hitler,' Davis told her. "But it was 'My New Order,' Hitler's speeches, not 'Mein Kampf.' I thought he would find it interesting. I am his friend, but I'm not Jewish."

Brenner then wrote that Trump told her: "If I had these speeches, and I am not saying that I do, I would never read them."

In other words, Trump's denial in Iowa that he had read "Mein Kampf" was not the first time he has denied reading Hitler -- or the first time there was reason for him to issue such a denial.

 

 

[Fulham Broadway 16,962]

2 hours ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Wtf, to compare these two is fucking ridiculous 

One user asked: 'why would you write this?

Cleese replied: 'Because I've never tried to amuse the simple-minded. There are plenty of comics who do, and you will enjoy them.'

[robsblubot 3,555]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

"I never read 'Mein Kampf,'"

well everybody knows he can't does not read.

[Fulham Broadway 16,962]